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I find it sad that the player is not getting any incentive to help Kagha. Despite the game's attempt to demonize it (the scene with the snake and the child needs to be changed somehow), the game has an unfinished Kagha path that looks like a dead end.

I would like to be able to play a high elf or druid (neutral or neutral evil) who could help Kagha and the shadow druids, get her as a companion, or at least have a short-term romantic interest. She looks like a rather interesting character, whose potential has not been revealed.

The game also needs the ability to make friends with these shadow druids, adequate motivation and a reward for helping so that they do not become hostile. If player want a celebrate camp party with elves and druids, not tieflings, why not?

Or perhaps Kagha and the rest of the druids were at the tiefling party. As one of the options.


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Why does every character have to be fuckable for you? Maybe siding with the shadow druids has other perks later on. I don't see the need to make every female character a trophy trope.


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I also think it's unfortunate that there's so far not much motivation for siding with the shadow druids. In general, I feel like there's not much motivation for taking the more "evil" routes other than just... to be evil. Hopefully this is something that can be remedied in the future.

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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
the scene with the snake and the child needs to be changed somehow
What exactly do you mean?
In other topic we were also talking about scene with child, personaly i would like to see few more options
(jump in front of kid and potentialy take snakebite instead of her, using healing spell, or cure poison spell)
But that would be all ... the scene is working fine except this, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by OneManArmy
the game has an unfinished Kagha path that looks like a dead end.
Nah, i disagree here ...
Not every character need to have huge impact on whole story, and personaly i believe that Kagha is not suppose to be some "big name" ... she served her purpose, and i doubt that we will see her anymore.
If you think about it, she either die, or is stipped off her rank and starts again as iniciative, OR stay sealed in the grove foverer ... that all sounds pretty final to me.

Originally Posted by OneManArmy
I would like to be able to play a high elf or druid (neutral or neutral evil) who could help Kagha and the shadow druids
I believe you can ...
Kagha wants you to drive Tieflings out so she can end Ritual of Thorns ... that is your way to help them.
(the only way as it seems)

Originally Posted by OneManArmy
The game also needs the ability to make friends with these shadow druids, adequate motivation and a reward for helping so that they do not become hostile. If player want a celebrate camp party with elves and druids, not tieflings, why not?
Bcs if you help Shadow Druids with their plan, they and Kagha are now sealed inside the Grove ... bcs THAT is their plan. laugh
Therfore they cannot get out ... therefore they canno be at your party.
(I cant help the feeling we already discused this in the past)

Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Or perhaps Kagha and the rest of the druids were at the tiefling party. As one of the options.
Kagha is at Tiefling party ...
At least in one of possible permutations. smile

Originally Posted by fylimar
Maybe siding with the shadow druids has other perks later on.
Honestly doubt it, since you are unable to "side with them" ... or at least i was, when i tryed ...
I investigated Kagha, i revealed her secret ... and then, when Rath wanted explanation from her, i supported her and claimed that "things are about to change in grove, dont get in the way Rath" or something simmilar ... then i offered my help to Shadow druids ...
And surprise, surprise ... their grupmpy halfling leader decided that they never actualy offered me option to join them, and therefore she wants to kill me ...
Pretty lame situation if you ask me.
What was even more lame tho, was the fact that when fight ended ... Rath thanked me for exposing Kagha and asisting him against her, he give that fancy Druid title i cant remember right now, and created the super-druidic staff for me. :-/
So exactly the same outcome as if you want to help him ... i cant express my disapointment back then. :-/
But that was in patch 4, if there is any change please tell me since i didnt try this time.

To me it seemed like if you want to side with Kagha, you need to simply kill Zevlor ... and tell her, so she proceed with her ritual ... then long rest, and grove is sealed since that moment for you.
(Note, DO NOT!!! Long rest inside the grove, since every druid become hostile for you afterwards. laugh )


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That was only a suggestion, since I was a bit pissed that op again wanted a trophy waifu (like he does with Minthara). I was suggesting that the reward doesn't have to bang the girl (which I find rather unimaginative), but maybe an interesting storyline along the way. This is a rpg and not a dating sim after all.


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
I investigated Kagha, i revealed her secret ... and then, when Rath wanted explanation from her, i supported her and claimed that "things are about to change in grove, dont get in the way Rath" or something simmilar ... then i offered my help to Shadow druids ...
And surprise, surprise ... their grupmpy halfling leader decided that they never actualy offered me option to join them, and therefore she wants to kill me ...
Pretty lame situation if you ask me.
What was even more lame tho, was the fact that when fight ended ... Rath thanked me for exposing Kagha and asisting him against her, he give that fancy Druid title i cant remember right now, and created the super-druidic staff for me. :-/
So exactly the same outcome as if you want to help him ... i cant express my disapointment back then. :-/
But that was in patch 4, if there is any change please tell me since i didnt try this time.
Same in patch 5. As you mentioned before, however, there is path to side with Kagha. Unsurprisingly, exposing her publicly isn't seen as an act of friendship or support. Perhaps there could be an option for us to talk with her in private and offer our support directly, and then proceed with the plan, but I don't think it is needed. She is watched by Roth, and revealing her affiliation, is in itself messing up their plans.

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Originally Posted by fylimar
This is a rpg and not a dating sim after all.

Oh, i think you'd be surprised at how many people are playing JUST to have the romance options.

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You can not gain any sort of friendship with the shadow druids. Even if you are a Druid yourself and wanted to becoem a shadow druid, they would still kill you because of the Tadpole.

Shadow Druids are extremists that are so set in they ways that they will even destroy nature to "save" it. Their magic more often than not actually damages the eco-system itself. They are eco fundamentalistic strawmen with powerful magic. They are antagonistic to their very core.
They think every form of civilization, even the most basic forms, are an attack on nature that must be destroyed.
They go beyond evil druid. Only under very specific situations will they tolerate any (n)pc otherwise they *will* be hostile.


Originally Posted by fylimar
That was only a suggestion, since I was a bit pissed that op again wanted a trophy waifu (like he does with Minthara). I was suggesting that the reward doesn't have to bang the girl (which I find rather unimaginative), but maybe an interesting storyline along the way. This is a rpg and not a dating sim after all.
As someone who actually likes Dating Sims (though I have not played any in a while) I have to agree to your statement, mostly.
A good DS will give every hero(ine) a good reason to fall in love with the protagonist. Random one-night stands are common in porn-focused games and are usually avoided in well written ones. Few well written ones even have any sort of harem ending, forcing you to be focused on *one* person.
And, I want to add, I started to get into dating sims partly because of BG2. (So, blame the author for Aerie for that =P)

Last edited by Fox of Embers; 11/08/21 03:43 PM. Reason: Spelling Errors
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Originally Posted by Fox of Embers
You can not gain any sort of friendship with the shadow druids. Even if you are a Druid yourself and wanted to becoem a shadow druid, they would still kill you because of the Tadpole.

Shadow Druids are extremists that are so set in they ways that they will even destroy nature to "save" it. Theeir magic more often than not actually damages the exo-system itself. They are eco fundamentalistic strawmen with powerful magic. They are antagonistic to their very core.
They think every form of civilization, even the most basic forms, are an attack on nature that must be destroyed.
They go beyond evil druid. Only under very specific situations will they tolerate any (n)pc otherwise they *will* be hostile.


Originally Posted by fylimar
That was only a suggestion, since I was a bit pissed that op again wanted a trophy waifu (like he does with Minthara). I was suggesting that the reward doesn't have to bang the girl (which I find rather unimaginative), but maybe an interesting storyline along the way. This is a rpg and not a dating sim after all.
As someone who actually likes Dating Sims (though I have not played any in a while) I have to agree to your statement, mostly.
A good DS will give every hero(ine) a good reason to fall in love with the protagonist. Random one-night stands are common in porn-focused games and are usually avoided in well written ones. Few well written ones even have any sort of harem ending, forcing you to be focused on *one* person.
And, I want to add, I started to get into dating sims partly because of BG2. (So, blame the author for Aerie for that =P)


The absence of an absolute antagonist is a sign of good role-playing. I believe that the player should be able to join ANY faction in the game, if it can theoretically occur to him. If the player wants to become a shadow druid, and their grouping is in the game, the player must be able to. Extremists, so what? Maybe I want to play an extremist too


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Doesn't mean they should have to accept you though. If a faction doesn't want you to join or wants to kill you you shouldn't be able to join them.

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Originally Posted by Veilburner
Doesn't mean they should have to accept you though. If a faction doesn't want you to join or wants to kill you you shouldn't be able to join them.
This is true, but then Larian need to show an explanatory cast scene and a few dialogues before the druids attack. So far, it looks like the player has not had the opportunity to be persistent enough to ask to become their friend, and they do not explain their hostility after the main character helped them.


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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Originally Posted by Veilburner
Doesn't mean they should have to accept you though. If a faction doesn't want you to join or wants to kill you you shouldn't be able to join them.
This is true, but then Larian need to show an explanatory cast scene and a few dialogues before the druids attack.
I just leave this here:
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
I investigated Kagha, i revealed her secret ... and then, when Rath wanted explanation from her, i supported her and claimed that "things are about to change in grove, dont get in the way Rath" or something simmilar ... then i offered my help to Shadow druids ...
And surprise, surprise ... their grupmpy halfling leader decided that they never actualy offered me option to join them, and therefore she wants to kill me ...

Pretty lame situation if you ask me.
What was even more lame tho, was the fact that when fight ended ... Rath thanked me for exposing Kagha and asisting him against her, he give that fancy Druid title i cant remember right now, and created the super-druidic staff for me. :-/
So exactly the same outcome as if you want to help him ... i cant express my disapointment back then. :-/


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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Originally Posted by Veilburner
Doesn't mean they should have to accept you though. If a faction doesn't want you to join or wants to kill you you shouldn't be able to join them.
This is true, but then Larian need to show an explanatory cast scene and a few dialogues before the druids attack. So far, it looks like the player has not had the opportunity to be persistent enough to ask to become their friend, and they do not explain their hostility after the main character helped them.

Remember Kaghas speech when you try to save the child. You are an outsider, a threat. You must be removed.
They will explain to you, that wolfs will not ask an intruder why s/he is here or tell them to leave - they will attack.
Likewise, they need to protect the grove (and the greater nature) from you, because you are not a Shadow Druid.

You have more success to convince a lolthsworn mother matron that a surface male should be given equal standing to her, than to convince a shadow druid to give people a chance.
Too much of this is the very core of the shadow druid ideology, meaning that such a derivation of ther usual m.o. would make them stop being shadow druids and turn them into just bitter, "normal" druids.

And that is putting aside that your characters are turning into aberrations and thus msot druids would probably kill you anyways.
Partly to safe you and partly to preserve nature.

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Someone cited Skyrim as an example (now the post has been edited)

The biggest thing I don't like about the Elder Scrolls universe is that they didn't allow me to join the Order of the Black Worm. Although this guild seemed very interesting and attractive to play as a necromancer, it did not break the concept of the game, given that the game had a playable Dark Brotherhood.

In part, I created this topic in the hope that such situations would not happen in Baldurs Gate 3. The situation with Shadow Druids itself is not critical, but I am afraid that further in the game there will be an interesting faction where I really want to join, but this will not be possible.


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Personally I don't think we should be able to join every faction just because we want to .

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Agreed ...
We should certainly be able to join "several" factions ...
And i would certainly love to have option to "seem" like you joined specific faction (example: Kill/KO flaming fist guard, take his armor ... discuise as Flaming Fist guard) ... but i would not see much benefit for game itself to allow us to actualy join Flaming Fist ranks. :-/


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It is entirely possible Khaga’s tale is not done. The exposition dump by Halsin when he makes it to your camp about who he is leaving in charge and his justifications, etc, are strong hints that we are not done with the grove or its internal politics.

And I stopped being surprised by romance requests from gamers after DA2, when a bunch of them wanted to be able to boink their (Hawke’s) sister…

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There needs (wants, wishes, begs Lol) to be away to become a shadow Druid initiate like you can be come a zhentarim recruit if you are a Rogue.

Convince the zhent agent, after the gnoll fight, to let you have the chest and split the loot with him after you sale it I in Baulders Gate. Once you find the zhent hideout, he will be tied up for treason. After a few dice rolls and a sharp blade (if successful), you are now to deliver the unopened chest to BG as a recruit. It is a bit buggy, so save before you enter the hideout.

My suggestion to trigger the Shadow Druid’s trust is to (as a Druid) allow one of their ranks to “see” you in the swamp getting their info. Allow/help Kagha seal the the grove while NEVER revealing their plans. This does two things

1, This allows their plans come to pass
2, It shows them that you may be of like mind. To get an invite to their ranks, you have to show similar views. Even if you agree with Kahga after you expose them, you show a trait that does not lend to their secretive style and are thus not compatible. And they should attach, like they do.

The Druid that”saw” you can come later with the invite. If you decline you are attacked on-site, by a high level Druid/s, as you can now be a liability…

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Halsin tells us there is more to the grove than mere druids, that it has a power of its own.
I expect shadowdruids want to seal the grove so as to make the shadowcurse (whatever it is..) not just unbreakable but stronger and probly grant some fun shadowpowers... which may or may not clash with the tadpole...

Ofcourse in the end they too work for whoever is behind the absolute (probly ioulaum). Luckily shadowheart has the box (Jergal inside? Nothing less than a god afterall can hope to stop new and improved Ioulaum lvl 80ish and more op powers than 10 bars can hold. Actions? hundreds per round)

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I'm not sure why shadow druids would welcome a druid infected by a tadpole into their ranks, especially a tadpole that is tainted by
netherese magic.
I think, druid or not, they'd view the main character as corrupted beyond saving.

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