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Originally Posted by Archaven
any suggestion for angel mythic build? smile. wondering mystic theurge if it's a good choice? hmm


Not sure if I agree with every single detail but it seems like an overall solid build with good synergies.


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
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Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
Woljif slays as long as you can micromanage him well and make sure he never gets focused on by enemy parties. A lot of his survival issues gets solved over time as you obtain better gear and pick up the mythic feat that enhances the Mage Armor spell.

Also, I suspect some of the aformentioned accuracy issues are from having skills like Deadly Aim turned on. If you're having trouble hitting things, turn it off. IMO they're not worth using unless you're really confident about your hit rate, because doing no damage is always worse than doing less damage.

Ember is one of the most low key busted companions in the game. You want her Slumber hex on auto-cast, it lets her attempt to put an enemy to sleep once per day per target, and it works on everything but swarms as far as I've observed. Great for shutting down ranged enemies and allowing your melee to get free opportunity attacks. Her stat spread is also good for multiclassing her into a caster-focused Bard, though Slumber is much less potent there. Ember can also pick up another hex that allows her to ward a party member, and enemies that attack the target will essentially have the Pathfinder equivalent of disadvantage against them for the next round or so.

Thankfully there is a NPC that allows you to respec your party, though you can't respec companions starting from a level below what they join at.

So far I am lucky in that most enemies are either distracted by Seelah, or trying to get to Nenio/me - so Woljif often cleans house early on in a fight, especially after setting his Charge to auto.

Thank you for the tip for Ember, though! I had forgotten up until reading, that you can set skills to auto-cast during combat; I have her set up to cast sleep when possible now, and it's helping a lot in terms of giving my dhampir opportunities to heal themselves via blood drink. She definitely seems to prioritize ranged enemies or more dangerous ones, which is great. The AI is pretty decent for the most part, though I'd prefer to set priorities myself if it were possible... but if there's an option to set up companion AI, I've not found it yet. Not a big deal though, as I tend to micro-manage hard in these RTwP cRPGs.

I didn't have Deadly Aim going on Lann, but I did have... Rapid Shot, I think it was? Since I turned that off and only kept Point Blank active, he's not missing quite as often. Also found a nice enchanted longbow for him this morning, and I'm definitely noticing the improvements. I may go and retrain him depending on the Ranger spread once he hits his next level up, but for now it's working out pretty well!

But for the most part, I'm not multi-classing anyone. I'm familiar enough with it in a D&D rules setting, but not so much with Pathfinder, so trying to play mostly safe.

Originally Posted by Riandor
The prologue is more than a little dodgy, both in terms of story and pacing, as well as the dialogue. That said the actual gameplay is engaging and I’m looking forward to progressing and seeing more of the mechanics.

I do have to agree on this assessment - it all happened quite fast, and it feels like there was a noticeable difference in writing between the majority of the prologue, and once you get topside again. Not the worst case of writing I've seen, of course, but the quality difference was there. Since then, however, I've been fully enjoying the dialogue and pacing - and especially enjoying the companions! Probably the only one I don't like much right now is Camellia, which is why she got benched to the tavern after we met Nenio.

Originally Posted by _Vic_
Cool, does the dhampir blood bite works ingame? I was eager to try the race but didn´t work before.

It seems to be! I've healed a few times after combat via blood drinking, and once during the midst of combat after Ember put something to sleep.

Originally Posted by Avallonkao
Now that I finally played properly a few hours of WOTR I can say.... What a boring game, damn. It's so cliche that I lost my interest real quick. The first PF hooked me right after the CC, it was fun, the dynamic of how the adventure had started, and meeting the companions, the pacing, everything was amazing. This one, is just, generic, that's the word, this game is generic AF. ugh. I'll try to finish it at some point and maybe change my mind.

In this I'll say that BG is far superior, BG3 is actually fun, even in this stage, I was loving the game since the beginning, even with all its flaws, etc. I could see myself wanting to keep playing. Meanwhile, WOTR is already boring to me in ways that few games managed in recent memory. Also, a special note. I hate, despise their character creator and character models. PFKM was better even on this.

I have to respectfully disagree; personally, I feel the writing (past the prologue, anyway) has engaged me in the setting more than I've felt with BG3 thus far. It also has a good blend of doomsday, creepiness, serious and gritty, with just enough dumb fun humor to not feel like it overstays the welcome. I'm also fairly fond of all the companions thus far aside from Camellia... who just comes off to me writing-wise as one of those problem players at the table in a real game. Might be why I dislike her, haha.

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Originally Posted by Avallonkao
Now that I finally played properly a few hours of WOTR I can say.... What a boring game, damn. It's so cliche that I lost my interest real quick. The first PF hooked me right after the CC, it was fun, the dynamic of how the adventure had started, and meeting the companions, the pacing, everything was amazing. This one, is just, generic, that's the word, this game is generic AF. ugh. I'll try to finish it at some point and maybe change my mind.

In this I'll say that BG is far superior, BG3 is actually fun, even in this stage, I was loving the game since the beginning, even with all its flaws, etc. I could see myself wanting to keep playing. Meanwhile, WOTR is already boring to me in ways that few games managed in recent memory. Also, a special note. I hate, despise their character creator and character models. PFKM was better even on this.

I admit that the beginning is a bit rough, probably about as rough as the start of DOS1 upon further thought depending on preferences, and the campaign in general might not be to most people's liking. But I've found that WotR is the type of game that really put its foot on the gas pedal and doesn't stop once you start the end of chapter 1 sequence. The end of chapter 2 and onwards especially were what really sold me on the game back during the alpha phase. The overall direction that the game goes after the first chapter really surprised me in a good way. The 'generic-ness' only really applies to the first chapter. Things... Aren't what they seem.

The game has some really amazing setpiece dungeons, and now that I think about it, a lot of recent cRPGs don't really have much in the way of dungeons to begin with.

Originally Posted by MarbleNest
I didn't have Deadly Aim going on Lann, but I did have... Rapid Shot, I think it was? Since I turned that off and only kept Point Blank active, he's not missing quite as often. Also found a nice enchanted longbow for him this morning, and I'm definitely noticing the improvements. I may go and retrain him depending on the Ranger spread once he hits his next level up, but for now it's working out pretty well!

Uh, yeah, you're going to want to respec Lann to get rid of that. It's a useless feat for him. There's a reason the game marked it as not recommended for him. His class comes with a passive that acts as having Rapid Shot turned on by default, without the accuracy penalty from it. And it doesn't stack with the actual Rapid Shot.

Also, another thing to help with Woljif's possible survivability issues is that you can pick up the Shield spell for him to boost his AC further. I believe he can scribe it through a scroll if you don't want to learn it at level-up.

You can talk to Hilor in the tavern to respec, though I think higher difficulties have companion retraining turned off by default. You'll need to enable it through the difficulty options if you need to turn it back on, though be aware this will set your difficulty settings to custom if you have to do this.

Last edited by Saito Hikari; 03/09/21 07:50 PM.
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Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
Originally Posted by MarbleNest
I didn't have Deadly Aim going on Lann, but I did have... Rapid Shot, I think it was? Since I turned that off and only kept Point Blank active, he's not missing quite as often. Also found a nice enchanted longbow for him this morning, and I'm definitely noticing the improvements. I may go and retrain him depending on the Ranger spread once he hits his next level up, but for now it's working out pretty well!

Uh, yeah, you're going to want to respec Lann to get rid of that. It's a useless feat for him. There's a reason the game marked it as not recommended for him. His class comes with a passive that acts as having Rapid Shot turned on by default, without the accuracy penalty from it. And it doesn't stack with the actual Rapid Shot.

Also, another thing to help with Woljif's possible survivability issues is that you can pick up the Shield spell for him to boost his AC further. I believe he can scribe it through a scroll if you don't want to learn it at level-up.

You can talk to Hilor in the tavern to respec, though I think higher difficulties have companion retraining turned off by default. You'll need to enable it through the difficulty options if you need to turn it back on, though be aware this will set your difficulty settings to custom if you have to do this.

Noted, I'll plan a respec soon! I don't usually tend to play archers so I'm always a little iffy on what to go with for archer focuses. And I'll be sure to grab the Shield spell for Woljif; I just recently picked up Blur, as well. Having myself or Ember spot heal him keeps him going through some tougher mobs, though.

Alas, just found the first major bug I've run into: full crash when I try to enter Gwerm's mansion. I have Camellia with me as required, as well, so no telling what the issue is causing it, but it's been consistent and does so at the same % of loading. Not the worst bug for me personally, as I'm not fond of Camellia thus far and mostly will just be missing out on the 2k gold from Gwerm, but still a critical one if others run into it at all. It's basically locked the location off for me entirely.

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The first dungeon of WOTR (Shield Maze) has about the same number of encounters as the entire BG3 early access. Draw your own conclusions.

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That’s a gross over exaggeration tbh. Plus it is a dungeon. BG3 doesn’t operate in a true dungeon format by way of presentation and gameplay balance. Weird comparison to make.

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Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
That’s a gross over exaggeration tbh. Plus it is a dungeon. BG3 doesn’t operate in a true dungeon format by way of presentation and gameplay balance. Weird comparison to make.

he's not wrong, that first dungeon was a beast lol. I really enjoyed it. That said, I'm not sure what his conclusion is.

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It's alright a few hours in, but I can already tell its not really going to give me what I want either. I just don't care about the setting in the same way, which is always the pitfall of BG FR spiritual successors for me.

They certainly have a much stronger class list going though, that's for sure. The amount of time it took me just to create a generic dry run fighter was almost comical. (I'd like to dry run a rogue instead, but the cloak and hood clips constantly whenever the avatar moves, and I couldn't find a way to turn off the hooded appearance. If one even exists?)

Pathfinder and D&D generally front load so many character design decisions, that I really wish they could figure out an entertaining way to introduce these games in a module from lvl 0-lvl 1 pre-class that was actually entertaining.

I feel like these games always suck at teaching someone how to play dungeons and dragons on a very basic mechanical level, before they just starting throwing a gang of consequential choices at people. Like I know what to do, cause I've been playing these games for decades now, but I can easily see how someone new to a D&D crpg might struggle, even if they are not necessarily new to RPGs.

I guess I'm glad it exists, something to do, but I still prefer the Realms. I wish this one had some of the basic stuff that Pathfinder provides though. WotR feels a lot more like the old BG games in how it's structured overall, even if I'm not totally satisfied there either, obviously lol

I will say I was definitely impressed with the portrait spread. There are just shy of 30 new ones and about 50 old ones, so altogether like 80 2d portraits with the base game. That's pretty solid and on a level with IWD. I think some of the character portrait designs are rather too specific, especially the large size full portrait. Most have a very prominent weapon, or class specific thing going on, like with a musical instrument etc that makes the large portraits rather less adaptable for different characters than the small size headshots. I almost wish they didn't even include a full size char portrait in that menu, but just kept things tight on the head/bust, so the portrait wouldn't overshadow the char build too much. But it's cool to just see a game with a 2d spread pushing 80 portrait concepts these days. In a fairly consistent style too. There were quite a few portraits in there that I definitely liked, more than I expected anyway. So tip of the hat there

Choice of major and minor colors initially was well handled. I liked how they approached the color swatch palettes there. The UI element I mean, making it look like a watercolor wash or something, that was a nice touch. I couldn't access it afterwards from the char sheet, but maybe I just wasn't looking hard enough?

The paperdoll avatar in the char creator looks pretty thick to me. Like the boxing in place figure that appears during char creation that you're stuck looking at until you advance half way through the process. Maybe I missed a phenotype field or something? I wish they'd put the look first, and the class and background stuff later lol. It's really more in the class outfit styles than the figures themselves. I guess there aren't many times where you see the character in that view, but since it's the first thing up I wish it looked a little cooler. Probably the avatar shouldn't appear until you get to the point where you are customizing the look. I like that it feels structured in a sequence, just not sure I like the exact sequence they chose haha.

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What is and isn't a part of a dungeon is a matter of debate, I personally could count the entire above ground area one dungeon.

I've been playing a cavalier to see what the mounted combat is like, it's not great. typically you want to move, make an attack, and move again, but in 'real time' doing that requires a lot of micromanaging and in turn based mode (which still feels like easy-mode), I haven't been able to figure out how to do it.

I forgot to add, but weapon reach seems to be off while mounted too, which is also important for this kind of play.

I'm not far enough in to really comment on much else.

Last edited by Sozz; 04/09/21 12:46 AM. Reason: weapon reach
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Another thing P:WotR reminded me of was how nice it is to see percentile modifiers e.g. spell resistance, which in 5e is usually reduced to making rolls with disadvantage/advantage.

One of the nice things about computers, they can do all the bookkeeping for you.

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Originally Posted by _Vic_
Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
Eh. It might not be optimal, but at least it's interesting.

Sadly I don't think ranged mounted combat is a thing. Only thing more hilarious than blasting things with a spell and a volley of arrows in the same turn is doing it while mounted on a dragon that has 60 feet of movement per turn.

Though it's probably a bad idea, considering that I've observed that mounted combat currently involves merging the animal companion and rider's turns into one, so you can't do something like, say, move using the animal companion's turn and still get full attacks with the rider. Having Seelah riding her mount in combat came with a significant downside in that her mount lost the ability to trip enemies while she was riding it (assuming you built her animal companion for that), though it had other just as significant upsides such as essentially eliminating her movement speed penalty from heavy armour.

.

o.O That´s not exactly how it works. your wolf or leopard could still trip or trample or sunder armor, power attack. You just have to switch it the auto-sunder in the animal companion action bar. The wolf, leopard, etc trips automatically when you attack.
Is this claim theoretical or does it actually work like this for you? I turned on auto-trip in the animal companion action bar (right clicking the Trip icon) but my horse still just does a normal bite attack when my mounted MC attacks.


Originally Posted by Sozz
I've been playing a cavalier to see what the mounted combat is like, it's not great. typically you want to move, make an attack, and move again, but in 'real time' doing that requires a lot of micromanaging and in turn based mode (which still feels like easy-mode), I haven't been able to figure out how to do it.
Unfortunately, I don't think this is possible in TB given how pathfinder works. Or at least, how mounted combat seems to be implemented in Owlcat's version of pathfinder. Since you can't split up movement and your mount+rider is melded into a single turn, you can only move->attack or attack->move. Unless there's a "ride by" feat/ability unlocked later on...

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Quote
this claim theoretical or does it actually work like this for you? I turned on auto-trip in the animal companion action bar (right clicking the Trip icon) but my horse still just does a normal bite attack when my mounted MC attacks.

Idk for cav but for a hunter I just turned on the auto trip for my dog and it replaced the dog bite attack with just a trip move.

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Originally Posted by VhexLambda
Quote
this claim theoretical or does it actually work like this for you? I turned on auto-trip in the animal companion action bar (right clicking the Trip icon) but my horse still just does a normal bite attack when my mounted MC attacks.

Idk for cav but for a hunter I just turned on the auto trip for my dog and it replaced the dog bite attack with just a trip move.
Oh! To be clear, this is when you were mounted on your dog, correct?

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Anyone else find it kinda ridiculous that the default camera rotation is bound to the middle-click instead of right click in this game too? It's like D&D is just determined to annoy me into using a controller, when I'd rather just play with the mouse comfortably hehe. The default is to have the right-click function pointlessly duplicate the left-click function, and the other options for it don't include cam rotation. Alas

Whoever decided that middle-click was a good button for camera rotation was off their fucking rocker, its only like the most common click of all!

I hate having to switch my index off the left-mouse or using Q or E left handed just to rotate the camera. Its super obnoxious.

I should probably take my gripes to the appropriate forums for that, but I just think its funny that BG3 and Pathfinder both use the same dumbass default for that and it's just the worst heheh

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for better or worse, the middle mouse button has become very popular for rotating the mouse. I honestly don't even think about it anymore, but yea, i can imagine people not liking it.

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It's nit picky to be sure, but I think about it every single time I'm force to make that middle click. To me the middle mouse exists for one reason, to scroll. That's why its a wheel! It makes perfect sense for a zoom for that reason, but not as the hold-click to rotate a camera button.

Many games use the middle mouse to rotate now, but I honestly can't understand the choice.

For me, in any game where I am given control of an orbital cam, reorienting the view is the single most common action I make while interacting with the game.

The camera is in near constant rotation, so the amount of discomfort there compounds quickly. WASD QE reminds me of fixed POV games from the mid 90s. I can suffer through it sure, but better and more elegant methods have existed for like 2 decades now. Like how often do I want to reorient my party's "formation" compared to how often I want to just rotate the camera? Cam control takes priority no contest, and right click doesn't even do anything else in PK. With zero competition, I'd choose hold right-click and drag mouse to rotate the camera any day of the week.

I know the whole concept of cam rotation is kinda new to the ISO genre, but damned if they didn't pick the single most annoying rotation bind for me. Hopefully they will open up their keybind options so I can can make it manageable. Right now I hit the wall on it in like an hour, same as I did in BG3 before they fixed it. Though here the solution still feels janky as well. Too bad

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by VhexLambda
Quote
this claim theoretical or does it actually work like this for you? I turned on auto-trip in the animal companion action bar (right clicking the Trip icon) but my horse still just does a normal bite attack when my mounted MC attacks.

Idk for cav but for a hunter I just turned on the auto trip for my dog and it replaced the dog bite attack with just a trip move.
Oh! To be clear, this is when you were mounted on your dog, correct?

Nope when the dog was unmounted

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Originally Posted by polliwagwhirl
The first dungeon of WOTR (Shield Maze) has about the same number of encounters as the entire BG3 early access. Draw your own conclusions.
Except for the elementals they are all tutorial fights and not very interesting, same as the assassins in the tutorial in PK. It's the standard rtwp design, where you populate the areas with trash mobs. It would have been even more boring in tb, which you can play in PWotR and then these tutorial fights just drag on.

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Originally Posted by polliwagwhirl
The first dungeon of WOTR (Shield Maze) has about the same number of encounters as the entire BG3 early access. Draw your own conclusions.

if BG3 had this kind of encounter design I will never play it.

Imagine going through the same encounters of auto-attack in a TB game

I don't mind it in WoTR because I am playing the game in RTwP mode

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Uh. Holy shit. Apparently reading certain books in your inventory (right click -> info) may confer minor stat bonuses to the main character. The below are the three I've found so far about halfway into chapter 1.

[Linked Image from cdn.discordapp.com]

[Linked Image from cdn.discordapp.com]

[Linked Image from cdn.discordapp.com]

The game literally never tells you this.

Also, people are sharing what unique dialogue options and reactivity they get as followers of certain deities, since this game allows you to worship a deity or become an atheist without having to play a cleric or something. They put a lot more work into this than I expected.

https://old.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder...ecific_dialoguereactions_are_super_neat/

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