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Meanwhile in approaching late game single classed Eldritch Archer on core difficulty:


I have no words anymore.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Tuco
I dont see your point here ...
I say if someone wish to spend 60€ for Bomberman 3D ... its his choice. :P

Oh man! Barrelmancy in it's highest form! Sven is going to knight you!

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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
That certainly sounds like one way to look at it ...




I rest my case.
In two words: A-mazing.

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I mean, from the feedback from the players the problem with barrelmancy was about how convenient it is to set it up before patch 5

but if this setup will take hours after patch 5, then I don't see it as a problem or find myself think about it even if it is gonna one shot all the bosses in the game

granted I have not try barrelmancy before or after patch 5 so I don't know exactly how convenient it was

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Re, my last on DR:

Yes, it seems indeed adjusted by the enemy stats option unter difficulties.

I don't remember whether Pathfinder actually juggled with enemy DR on those settings. It may make sense though given the scenario (and demons usually having DR it seems).


The problem I still had, playing on "normal" pre-sets so far as said, but with enemy damage increased to 100%: Unlike the reduced AC (-2) say, the game doesn't show anywhere that the DR IS actually being adjusted. Hovering over a dretch demon, say, it says there'd be a DR of 5 (accordingly to the P&P stats) regardless what difficulty you pick.

There's another problem I have: I',m not a huge fan of "stat bloat", which Owlcat seem to apply in particular on higher settings. Huge ACs, you name it.

I wish there was setting solely for enemy DR, but the enemy stat adjustments alters everything, not merely DR.

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Originally Posted by Human
I mean, from the feedback from the players the problem with barrelmancy was about how convenient it is to set it up before patch 5

but if this setup will take hours after patch 5, then I don't see it as a problem or find myself think about it even if it is gonna one shot all the bosses in the game

granted I have not try barrelmancy before or after patch 5 so I don't know exactly how convenient it was
In the Reddit thread where this was posted, the person who made the video said it took 3 hours.

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Originally Posted by _Vic_
In two words: A-mazing.
Amazingly trashy, more specifically.

I've been for years a big fan of "systemic gameplay" but if there is one thing I can't stand about Larian's design philosophy is how they love to self-indulge in a fairly masturbatory way for their own broken mechanics.
One key point of systemic design should be precisely that when you have several interacting subsystems you should understand the importance of limiting their potential for exploits.

Larian on the on the hand is perfectly aware of the exploits being there and knows perfectly well how litte work it would take to limit their influence, but it doesn't even try because the directors/lead designers are under the impression that "It makes the players feel clever so it's amusing".
And the saddest thing is it could be, if the whole Rube Goldberg machine would give even just a partial illusion of putting any effort in staying a bit grounded in... I don't want to say reality, but at least some resemblance of verisimilitude.

Last edited by Tuco; 29/09/21 01:00 PM.
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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
I dont see your point here ...
But OF COURSE you don't.

Last edited by Tuco; 29/09/21 01:05 PM.
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Originally Posted by Rhobar121
Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by Sozz
This has always how I've seen it, the shortfall of spellcasters was always resource management not efficacy, which is why managing when a party can rest is so important, all the more so in a cRPG because the player can theoretically just rest after every encounter if the game doesn't tax them in some way.
Yes, well said! It's limitation of resources and a meaningful obstacle to replenishing those resources that keeps casters (esp. wizards) from being over-the-top powerful. And that's why any D&D game that eliminates or significantly weakens this cost for wizards is making things rather ridiculous. The Owlcat forum is filled with wizard fans whining about the need to rest in the Pathfinder games. Thank God Owlcat has thus far refused to back down on resting.

There are no penalties for frequent resting in this game. You may as well rest as you fight, it doesn't matter in the long run. There is probably only one quest that can spoil a few things if you rest too much (the very beginning of the game).
Later, the more often you rest, the better because then there are more events.
There is a mechanic of abbysal corruption but to be honest it doesn't matter. Most maps are too small to require more than one rest, and in larger locations you often find objects that remove them.
Oh sure. My point wasn't that you can't rest easily enough as much as you want. It is that on the Owlcat forum there are a lot of people demanding that resting (and fatigue) be completely removed from the game because it gets in their way of uber-powerful wizardry. They want a system where a wizard can cast as much as they want with no resource limitations. And that's what I meant by saying Owlcat has rejected this and drawn a line on it.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by _Vic_
In two words: A-mazing.
Amazingly trashy, more specifically.

I've been for years a big fan of "systemic gameplay" but if there is one thing I can't stand about Larian's design philosophy is how they love to self-indulge in a fairly masturbatory way for their own broken mechanics.
One key point of systemic design should be precisely that when you have several interacting subsystems you should understand the importance of limiting their potential for exploits.

Larian on the on the hand is perfectly aware of the exploits being there and knows perfectly well how litte work it would take to limit their influence, but it doesn't even try because the directors/lead designers are under the impression that "It makes the players feel clever so it's amusing".
And the saddest thing is it could be, if the whole Rube Goldberg machine would give even just a partial illusion of putting any effort in staying a bit grounded in... I don't want to say reality, but at least some resemblance of verisimilitude.
I have to agree. I also don't see this as amazing in any way but rather as complete bullshit. This is not ingenuity. This is ridiculous cheese to the Nth degree.

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Relax, just consider how much time it took to set that up, if you think it's a short-cut, clearly not. They've also made it so that picking up and setting down barrels is a suspicious activity (at least I've had it happen to me) so they have a potential limiting factor to work with that makes it even more of a chore. The real tragedy is still that you can't topple that statue onto Razlin.

so it took 3 hours, and a dumb AI, I would say only one of those things is on Larian to improve, and I still would say it should be impossible to do.

Last edited by Sozz; 29/09/21 02:59 PM. Reason: Icelyn mentioned how long it took
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Originally Posted by Human
I mean, from the feedback from the players the problem with barrelmancy was about how convenient it is to set it up before patch 5

but if this setup will take hours after patch 5, then I don't see it as a problem or find myself think about it even if it is gonna one shot all the bosses in the game

granted I have not try barrelmancy before or after patch 5 so I don't know exactly how convenient it was

Exploitative mechanics for a minority of players with little care for immersion or roleplaying isn't the problem. The problem is that this REQUIRES a crappy AI that is likely to negatively affect the majority of players. Not cool.

Secondarily I take issue with the consistently lazy implementations. Had this sort of gameplay at least been semi-clever, it would be a good inclusion. Like casting invisibility on the barrels to explain why the AI is completely unreactive. Or take the obvious option to poison the goblin camp, at least require the player to pass a hard stealth/sleight of hand to do it in a sneaky way, alternatively performance or casting minor illusion to create a distraction to bypass the need of checks.

The Larian cheese is dumbfuckery of the highest order...it needn't be.

Last edited by Seraphael; 29/09/21 03:09 PM.
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The line between an exploit and a mechanics can be thin. I'd say that barrels in BG3 are more cumbersome to use (due to the carry weight) and therefore more limited than spamming deadly earth with a kineticist in PK and WotR. Yet the latter is a legitimate class mechanics. The amusing part is that a level 13 kineticist mercenary would cost my character slightly more than the most expensive weapon in the local market, yet is far more powerful. And it's not like money is a limiting factor in WotR.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
the directors/lead designers are under the impression that "It makes the players feel clever so it's amusing".
1:07 - 1:17

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 29/09/21 03:32 PM.

In the words of the senior NCO instructor at cadet battalion:
“If you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying. And if you got caught you didn’t try hard enough!”
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Originally Posted by _Vic_
Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
That certainly sounds like one way to look at it ...




I rest my case.
In two words: A-mazing.


Okay setting aside people getting triggered by the fact that you can do this by spending 3 hours carefully placing stuff on the map, can we just be amazed that you can actually do this in this game? Like, this is some next level environmental intractability. Gave me "Cercei blowing up the Sept of Baelor" vibes. I fricking love BG3.

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Originally Posted by spacehamster95
Okay setting aside people getting triggered by the fact that you can do this


[Linked Image from thumbs.gfycat.com]

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Originally Posted by spacehamster95
[
Okay setting aside people getting triggered by the fact that you can do this by spending 3 hours carefully placing stuff on the map, can we just be amazed that you can actually do this in this game? Like, this is some next level environmental intractability. Gave me "Cercei blowing up the Sept of Baelor" vibes. I fricking love BG3.

Only that you are not really interacting with the environment at all. You are just placing traps everywhere and no one reacts to it.


One other thing, Wrath has a lot of companions which are specific to certain choices or even paths. In BG3 you can miss companions when they die (or you kill them), but I wonder if they will implement companions which are missable unless you do something specific. But considering how much effort a companion takes with all the cinematics I doubt Larian will have one which can't be used by everyone every time.

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Originally Posted by Ixal
Originally Posted by spacehamster95
[
Okay setting aside people getting triggered by the fact that you can do this by spending 3 hours carefully placing stuff on the map, can we just be amazed that you can actually do this in this game? Like, this is some next level environmental intractability. Gave me "Cercei blowing up the Sept of Baelor" vibes. I fricking love BG3.

Only that you are not really interacting with the environment at all. You are just placing traps everywhere and no one reacts to it.


One other thing, Wrath has a lot of companions which are specific to certain choices or even paths. In BG3 you can miss companions when they die (or you kill them), but I wonder if they will implement companions which are missable unless you do something specific. But considering how much effort a companion takes with all the cinematics I doubt Larian will have one which can't be used by everyone every time.

Maybe. However, there are rumors that they will lock the party at some point, which would be very close to the opposite of allowing all party members to be used by everyone all the time. That's more of a Bioware thing.

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Is that you closing the door on this chapter of the Pathfinder thread?

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Originally Posted by Ixal
Only that you are not really interacting with the environment at all. You are just placing traps everywhere and no one reacts to it.

So much this. It fascinates me how putting explosive barrels next to non-hostile victims and then blowing them up is somehow considered 'environmental intractability'.

Then again, we all know that explosive barrels & crates are a staple of good & original game/map/level design. The more the merrier... laugh

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