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Originally Posted by ash elemental
Originally Posted by Ixal
Some consequences come later in act 5 or rather who stayed loyal to you in the meantime. And even companions will leave you later like Sosiel will for being too much of a lich.
Yes, and that these consequences come so late is also why I feel it's not very believable.
They are tied to your actual transformation. Before that while you have an indication you are not fully commited which is why some give you the benefit of doubt.

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I also think it's a little too late at that point. They should've left earlier or just follow like sheep until the end. It's perfectly OK for them if you recruit companions with opposite alignments. Perfectly OK with you performing totally evil or good acts. But when you change that's their breaking point?

Sorry not buying it. If you've been totally evil or good the entire game up to that point it should've been totally obvious to them you weren't going to change. So follow along little sheep.

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Originally Posted by Ixal
They are tied to your actual transformation. Before that while you have an indication you are not fully commited which is why some give you the benefit of doubt.
Waiting on the actual transformation to confirm the knight commander is indeed that evil makes little sense, considering you can commit plenty of evil before.

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Currently WotR is MUCH longer than BG3, this will change when BG3 is out (remember how much longer D:OS2 full was than D:OS2 EA).

We have got LOTS of mechanics later in the game in D:OS2 that weren't present in act 1 (I have to admit I joined D:OS2 only when it was released, I only got back into gaming and D:OS2 was, basically, my second game after my almost-a-decade gaming hiatus), and D:OS2 EA was the first act.

So I'd say that eventually they will both be loved by a similar audience, I think that many people will love both games (I already do, currently playing WotR like crazy, reminds of the long nights and 40 hours+ sessions I had back with D:OS2, because the game was THAT good) and thats wonderful.

Although, honestly, WotR seems to be, lets say, inspired in some parts by D:OS2...


You basically become a god. It's a more gradual process in WotR than in D:OS2, it comes with it's own, second layer of levelling, but it clearly leads to divinity.

I have only played until about level 10 (out of 20) so far, I'm currently in act 3 of the game, so I can't say with 100% certainty if this is true, but it feels as if.


Especially since I chose the ultra amazing Azata mythic path, where you not only get a cute dragon sidekick that hits like a truck, but also superpowers, which are REALLY almost op.

One thing that I especially like, and this is where I hope that the pollination goes both ways, is one of the companions. Since you meet her early in the game, I won't put it into spoiler tags. A "stigmatized witch" one could consider a "broken" companion, but who, when you build her with some common sense, rips demons and stuff apart left and right, while also being a great healer AND hex caster at the same time.

The one thing that is really peculiar in the comparison between D:OS2 / BG3 on one hand and WotR on the other is that Owlcat Games are allowing themselves more "freedom" when going for more extreme character / companion builds. The witch I mentioned is a very good example:

Has a permanent -4 to attack rolls (sounds like a no-go, right?), but at the same time she is "blackened" (was burned at the stakes, but survived), which makes her a great fire caster. So whats interesting here, when it comes to game design, is that Owlcat Games intentionally and liberally draws from a wide range of "deep" character flaws, balanced by "very high" character buffs. Something I wish Larian would do as well, although I have to admit that Astarion is a great step in this direction, I hope we get some actual "blood drinking" mechanic, not just for flavour, but as a real game mechanic.

On the other hand, Larian is better when it comes to "exploitability" of skills and character feats. And, of course, game mechanic. D:OS2 / BG3 are much more "sandboxy", which is something that Owlcat Games is missing a bit.

This is a very fruitful situation, I love it. So much to learn.

Too bad I can't get into game development, I would love to work on an isometric RPG, I'd even have ideas that would make people enjoy the game very much (example: isometric vampire / werewolf setting steampunk style).


Larian, please improve QoL / UX.

And give us Halsin as companion, please.
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The character flaw in Ember's case isn't the penalty to rolls, it's how her designed build doesn't fit her personality. She is a child-like character who preaches peace & forgivness, and yet in combat turns enemies to cinders screaming "too late for apologies". She would have made more sense with a patron that grants healing or protective spells instead of hellfire rays.

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Originally Posted by ash elemental
The character flaw in Ember's case isn't the penalty to rolls, it's how her designed build doesn't fit her personality. She is a child-like character who preaches peace & forgivness, and yet in combat turns enemies to cinders screaming "too late for apologies". She would have made more sense with a patron that grants healing or protective spells instead of hellfire rays.

Haha, true.

However, she totally fries anything in her path, it's hilarious. grin


Larian, please improve QoL / UX.

And give us Halsin as companion, please.
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having played wrath of the righteous to completion now, writing wise it's not great, but better than kingmaker, there are still a lot of bugs (some gamebreaking even with the big new update) so I'd say it could be a fun game to play for the systems after a few more months of patches, the control of your party is pretty sweet in that game tho, if only pathfinding could be as smooth as the rest of the controls. can easily setup on the fly formations, strategic positioning using the hold function, quick selection of select few party members, no need to chain/unchain for every tactical setup is nice.

Last edited by Ianthebea; 27/10/21 01:06 AM.
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Wrath of the Righteous is probably my Game of the Year (unless I come across something that completely blows my expectation in the next 2 months), but I can agree that the overall writing is serviceable at best. I find myself noticing a lot more flaws/gaps in the writing with my second playthrough - to the point that my 2nd playthrough is slowing to a crawl because now that I roughly know what happens next, the narrative really isn't hooking me in on its own.

I still think there are moments where Owlcat really nails it, but when you measure assess it as a full body of work against the full play time (which is LONG), I wish a lot more things were better fleshed out and paced.

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I'm going to try something "special" in WotR, haha.

Will create custom portraits from D:OS2 origin characters, use toy box to fix the mercenary point buy and get myself a full custom party.

With <3 Sebille <3, Ifan, Lohse, Beast, Red Prince and Fane. Should be fun. hehe

I mean you can even have characters that heal with negative energy...


Larian, please improve QoL / UX.

And give us Halsin as companion, please.
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I was thinking of doing the exact opposite, making Pathfinder companions in BG3. See how robust the character creation customization is.

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Originally Posted by ash elemental
The character flaw in Ember's case isn't the penalty to rolls, it's how her designed build doesn't fit her personality. She is a child-like character who preaches peace & forgivness, and yet in combat turns enemies to cinders screaming "too late for apologies". She would have made more sense with a patron that grants healing or protective spells instead of hellfire rays.
What she preaches depends on your choices. You can turn her into a "And if you don't listen you burn" kind of preacher.
So the potential indicated by her combat dialogue is there.

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Which I didn't choose with Ember, went the default good route.

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Originally Posted by ash elemental
Which I didn't choose with Ember, went the default good route.

Likewise. Gives that character a special flavour.

Last edited by Firesong; 27/10/21 11:10 AM.

Larian, please improve QoL / UX.

And give us Halsin as companion, please.
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Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
I was thinking of doing the exact opposite, making Pathfinder companions in BG3. See how robust the character creation customization is.

That's actually really interesting. Obviously, PF has way more classes so with BG3 you'll need to rely on multiclassing to shore the gaps as much as you can. Here's some thoughts assuming we're only getting PHB classes in BG3.

Spoilers for WoTR Companions:

Seelah - Paladin - Oath of Devotion - probably the most straight forward conversion IMO

Camellia - Fighter / Cleric (Nature) or Druid (Land) - this is a fun one. A splash of Fighter to reflect Camellia's fighting prowess makes sense to me. However, her caster class is tricky as 5e doesn't have a direct equivalent to Shaman, which itself is a hybrid of Oracle and Witch. Mechanically, both Druid and Nature Clerics works, but I think a stronger case can actually be made for Camellia being a Cleric over a Druid. 5E Clerics do not need to follow gods for power - they just need to basically have enough faith in something to manifest divine power, whereas you'd expect a Druid to still show some kind of a deep connection to nature.

Wenduag - Fighter (Champion) - pretty straight forward conversion here too. Archery fighting style, Sharpshooter feat, and maybe Crossbow Expert (better for 5E meta, but Longbow is more true to her PF character).

Lann - Monk (Shadow) - I think Lann suffers because his perfect 5e conversion class - the Kensei Monk - is likely not going to be implemented. I didn't want to make Lann another fighter archer like Wenduag, so Shadowmonk is the next best alternative IMO. You won't be able to use Martial Arts with it, but with X-bow Expert + Sharpshooter + Shadow Monk mobility you do have an angle of play.

Sosiel - Cleric (Life or Light Domain). I think this one's straight forward, there's arguments for several domains which fit him best.

Nenio - Wizard (illusionist) - I think you can argue the case for any PHB wizard class for Nenio. I chose Illusions because that's her specialist school. If non-PHB is allowed, Order of the Scribes might be the best fit.

Daeran - Mechanically - Cleric (Life). Story - Warlock (Great Old One). This one is interesting to me because a Warlock would've fit Daeren better than an Oracle story-wise IMO, given what we find out. Mechnically, the Divine Soul Sorcerer is probably the best fit for 5E, but we aren't getting that in BG3.

Ember - Lore Bard / Warlock (Fiend) Multiclass. Lore bard roughly mimics her ability to hex via inspirations and cutting words, and incredible charm. Warlock represents her relationship with Soot. If we had more than PHB, a Celestial Warlock / Lorebard is probably more perfect for her, but without that I'm flavoring who Soot represents as a good fiend.

Regill - Paladin - Oath of Vengeance / Battlemaster multiclass - Oath of Vengeance is probably the closest Paladin Oath to the Hellknight, and Battlemaster is the fighter subclass that think reflects Regill's tactical approach to combat the best. Pretty badass multiclass for a badass companion.

Arueshalae - Ranger (Hunter) / Rogue - I think the Hunter Ranger makes the most sense given that Arue doesn't use a pet. The splash in Rogue (I'm thinking just 2 levels) is to get her Expertise, which reflects her abilities as a skill-monkey in WoTR.

Woljif - Arcane Trickster - very straight forward conversion.

Greybor - Fighter (Champion or Battlemaster) / Rogue (Assassin) - Slayers are basically rangery-rogues without spells, which kind of makes the fighter/rogue multiclass a pretty close reflection of what it is.

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It was more about the appearance/race options, but the thoughts on their classes are interesting too.

Wenduag would make the Drow cry for mercy. Or she'd be worshipped. Possibly both.

Last edited by Saito Hikari; 28/10/21 07:10 AM.
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I like crossovers very much, especially since I binge watched Eureka and Warehouse 13.

I guess BG3 origin character portraits in WotR would be a nice feat, too, ahaha. Need to find out if there is promo material in 4K somewhere, I already failed at finding a good image of Fane to crop into the 3 necessary PNGs.

Could be seen as a strange predilection of mine but the idea of crossing over characters from one universe to another is soooo tempting.


Larian, please improve QoL / UX.

And give us Halsin as companion, please.
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Just a heads up for the folks mentioning the couple you met at the beginning of the game...

If you played the tabletop campaign you'd realize the one of them(the not half orc) is actually
transsexual. Male to female specifically.


I'm not a fan of shoving stuff like that in my face like some games do, but this isn't even mentioned in the game, only the tabletop campaign. It only mentions a medical treatment of some sort in the crpg. And you gotta go through a bunch of dialog to hear about it.

So yeah.

I'm playing Wrath of the Righteous now, and I played the tabletop campaign. Character creation and development are more in depth, and this is mostly due to D&D 5e being a shadow of it's former self and Pathfinder being basically 3.75. I can't say anything for Pathfinder v2 because I haven't played it, but if they didn't simplify some stuff I'd be surprised. Tabletop games seem to be moving away from complexity and depth in favor of straight combat stats and the like. Sad.

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So the WotR devs released a big survey about the game.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdmtQNXenWS6rfQw8jGk1GgZdvFIM5kV6VSPvk97OFCP4SPNw/viewform

General sentiment is that the game is in need of a lot of small improvements. Honestly I think this game might be in major need of an enhanced edition, though not because it's bad, but while there's a lot of small things that add up to a great experience, there's a lot of small things that detract from the overall experience too. It seems the most common complaints revolve around chapter 5 feeling rather disjointed (though I think that's also stressed by chapter 4 being as strong as it is, for how different it is from the rest of the game on top of that), but also the mythic levels being unevenly distributed (you spend about 75% of the game between mythic levels 1-5). The devs had already outright said that the latter is a real problem, but something they can only address in an enhanced edition, as it would require a rewriting of the story.

---

In other game news, Solasta released their first paid DLC yesterday, along with a bunch of free updates.

https://www.solasta-game.com/news/141-primal-calling-dlc-free-content-update-patch-notes

Primal Calling DLC Content

The following content is only available if you purchased the Primal Calling DLC.

The Barbarian Class, with its 3 subclasses: Path of the Berserker (SRD), Path of the Magebane (Solasta), Path of Stone (Community)
The Druid Class, with its 3 subclasses: Circle of the Land (SRD), Circle of Kindred Spirit (Solasta), Circle of Winds (Community)
The Half-Orc Ancestry
The Wanderer Background, with its brand new background quest located in Copparan



Free Content Update - Major Improvements

The following content is available to everyone for free.

Solasta is now available for Mac!
Level cap increased from level 10 to level 12, unlocking new class features as well as level 6 spells
Scars and Facial Paints customization options in character creation
Tired of playing through the tutorial? You can now skip it!
Rebalanced (harder!) fight at the end of the campaign - prepare for a challenge!
New Campaign Creator Feature, allowing custom dungeons to be bundled together into a campaign with custom monsters, custom NPCs & merchants and custom items!
New Town Exterior & Town Interior Environments for the Dungeon Maker


I've noticed some people got to play around with the campaign creator before release, and it seems robust enough that people had full campaigns ready to go yesterday. I haven't tried them yet though, but general impressions seem to indicate that this is pretty damn amazing, and now truly has the potential to rival NWN in user-created content.

There's also someone in the Solasta discord that was publicly testing a multiplayer mod this morning. And what the mod supposedly does is enable a hidden multiplayer alpha option in the game's menu, which means the devs were already working on implementing official multiplayer into the game. They just haven't announced it yet, and its current state seems rather buggy. From what the people testing have said so far, it only allows you to use it for user generated campaigns so far, there are lobbies shared between all currently supported platforms, and rooms support up to 4 players. Each player also has full control of their character(s) and can act independently outside of combat.

Honestly, if the Solasta devs get multiplayer working, that's going to be huge for the entire DnD community. I cannot think of any other turn-based DnD game with a robust user creation scene that could potentially support multiplayer, and it sounds like BG3 is straying away from that direction (and probably shouldn't even attempt it at this rate). I see people using Solasta as a testing grounds for all kinds of actual tabletop campaigns in the future. I'm personally already making plans to use the campaign creator in order to visualize a party stronghold in a tabletop campaign that I'm a part of, once it gets worked on a bit further.

Last edited by Saito Hikari; 05/11/21 10:19 PM.
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Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
So the WotR devs released a big survey about the game.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdmtQNXenWS6rfQw8jGk1GgZdvFIM5kV6VSPvk97OFCP4SPNw/viewform

General sentiment is that the game is in need of a lot of small improvements. Honestly I think this game might be in major need of an enhanced edition, though not because it's bad, but while there's a lot of small things that add up to a great experience, there's a lot of small things that detract from the overall experience too. It seems the most common complaints revolve around chapter 5 feeling rather disjointed (though I think that's also stressed by chapter 4 being as strong as it is, for how different it is from the rest of the game on top of that), but also the mythic levels being unevenly distributed (you spend about 75% of the game between mythic levels 1-5). The devs had already outright said that the latter is a real problem, but something they can only address in an enhanced edition, as it would require a rewriting of the story.
I did that survey, and I don't get how they could give you those tiny one-line input windows and expect people to explain why they like/dislike things in that tiny little space. I just picked a couple things I really wanted to talk about and tried to make it short. I just started Act 5 myself, so I skipped some of the questions. I also read up on the reddit thread and apparently majority of people say essentially the same things about the things they dislike: classses/features not functioning, "obnoxious" puzzles (mostly Nenio's, no kidding those are horrendous), random sky-high ACs on mobs, the whole crusade aspect, mythic rank pacing, chapter 5 and 6 issues, inventory issues, how monk-dipped naked AC trumps regular plate armor, and guess what, the "moving islands" mechanics in Act 4. Even the survey includes the moving islands as an aspect you can select. Apparently the devs are aware of most if not all of the problems themselves, and at the very least they asked the right questions in their survey. Now I wonder to what extent will they be altering their game to accommodate all the feedback.

I think this kind of survey would be a nice idea for Larian to do too, considering that they have done "definitive edition" before which made major overhauls to both story and game mechanics.

Last edited by Try2Handing; 06/11/21 05:53 AM.

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Originally Posted by Try2Handing
I did that survey, and I don't get how they could give you those tiny one-line input windows and expect people to explain why they like/dislike things in that tiny little space.
You can write as much as you want within those one-line spaces, beyond what visually shows on the page. The line will keep scrolling with you as you write.

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