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Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
Originally Posted by Terminator2020
I heard expansion Lost Valley in Solasta DnD 5 limited license game is a bit more challenging well I really hope that is true.
Lost Valley definitely has far greater encounter variety, and was definitely higher in difficulty too. For instance, you hardly ran into any casters or ranged enemies in the main campaign. Lost Valley throws a lot more of them at you, and rather early at that too. People have actually complained about being ambushed by enemies that seem to be significantly higher level than the party. During the main campaign, you would eventually out-level random encounters to the point where the game decides that the enemies would just run away before initiating combat. That doesn't happen in Lost Valley, since it takes place in a much smaller map (traveling from one end of the map to the other within Lost Valley's campaign takes about 1 in-game day, compared to about 10 days in the main campaign), the lower level encounters seemingly get replaced by higher level ones instead, though venturing out to western side of the map still seemingly results in slightly harder encounters compared to the area between the starting point and the main hub city.

For example, one of the main campaign's optional endgame boss fights pitted you against a Remorhaz at the end of a major sidequest chain, which is basically kind of like a dragon in terms of threat level. One of Lost Valley's hardest random encounters pitted you against THREE of them. In my multiplayer run of Lost Valley, we ran into said random encounter at level 9 and promptly wiped to it.

Since Lost Valley is a lot more open-ended, you can end up facing endgame encounters much earlier if you choose to pursue working for specific factions immediately, instead of exploring your options as much as possible before picking a side. But because of this (and that encounters seem to have more challenging enemies on average), you also seemingly level a lot faster in Lost Valley compared to the main campaign too.
Thank you for the info. I and my brother will buy Lost Valley... we first do the main campaign Solasta in multiplayer Cataclysm hardest challenge level but not use Ironman only one save. We play the Lost Valley with other characters. Actually I will make/roll a Paladin again, but this time use another Oath. Well and my brother will likely do a Ranger will low life background instead of Rogue to Lost Valley. In the main campaign we use Paladin Oath of Devotion, Battle Cleric, Rogue and Wizard the last two are my brothers characters.

From real Dnd 5 pen and paper I would say Oath of Vengenace is my favorite Oath.

Generally though all classes are good in DnD5, but perhaps Monk is weakest class perhaps in real pen and paper Dnd 5.
That said my Dwarf Battle Cleric with Daylight spell vs Vampires was one major key factor to have all Vampires affected by Daylight spell and perhaps in Solasta Battle Domain is the most powerful Cleric domain I would say.

Last edited by Terminator2020; 24/12/22 08:23 AM.
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Yeah, now that I think about it, you never really got much mileage out of Counterspell in the main campaign outside of a few specific boss fights. In Lost Valley, you end up facing a lot more mages, several of them even capable of casting level 4-6 spells at a point where your own caster might only have level 3 spells at the most. Many of them also know counterspell and shield too (whereas in the main campaign, I think only Sorak mages actually used counterspell and shield against you), though you can bait out one or the other.

I have an example of one such fight against an enemy caster here.


My wizard in this footage only had access to level 3 spells against an enemy mage capable of casting level 5 spells. Counterspell DOESN'T have a 100% success rate in this situation. For the onlookers in the back, basic counterspell only has 100% success rate against level 3 spells and below. Anything higher requires an arcana check (which can be done with advantage provided that the counterspelling caster also knows how to cast the spell they are attempting to counter), or for you to upcast Counterspell using a higher level spell slot to match the level of the enemy spell. Remember this, because chances are this will also be very important in BG3 (and Larian will likely add options in the reaction interface taking this into account).

---

Since Solasta has all classes implemented now, I think the devs are working on one final DLC campaign before they start shifting all efforts into their next game. Considering that Lost Valley was a huge step up over the main campaign in the gameplay department (though the writing is debatable), I'm excited to see what they can do with this last campaign, provided it isn't rushed out the door.

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Well then winners,,, Saito Hikari and Terminator 2020 and my brother who find hardest challenge Cataclysm in Solasta as good challenge and know what tactics and spells to use and how to create excellent characters. Well and then some others who struggle on normal challenge level in Solasta. Yes I do hope Solasta will get another expansion in addition to Lost Valley. I am sure BG 3 will include rolling attributes and also have more then one challenge difficulty at full release.

At the end of day it does not matter. Play at what challenge level you want and enjoy games.

Last edited by Terminator2020; 24/12/22 02:44 PM.
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Originally Posted by Terminator2020
Well then winners,,, Saito Hikari and Terminator 2020 and my brother who find hardest challenge Cataclysm in Solasta as good challenge and know what tactics and spells to use and how to create excellent characters. Well and then some others who struggle on normal challenge level in Solasta. Yes I do hope Solasta will get another expansion in addition to Lost Valley. I am sure BG 3 will include rolling attributes and also have more then one challenge difficulty at full release.

At the end of day it does not matter. Play at what challenge level you want and enjoy games.
To add to what @Saito says, another problem is that the Solasta OC is balanced for what was available in the game at the time it was released. Now the game has gone through several DLCs, and even if you don't use those DLCs a lot of what was in the DLCs were also added into the base game. So the base game is no longer balanced because of items and abilities that are now in the game that were not there when the base game was released.

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"Is it worth a buy...is it?", "Let's read the words of the words, of the developer?".

Mack said yes, so at 60% off I pulled the trigger.


I couldn't finish the first Pathfinder...the politics card game was just not for me and ruined the story for me. It was like being on the bridge of the Enterprise where I had to be the Captain, the tactical officer, communications, whilst simultaneously running engineering........on the back of a horse.

Now I have wished that Larian had taken the common sense approach that Solasta did...by starting with the good foundation of adding ALL the past elements of what makes a D&D immersive including a working clock, day AND night, weather and a decent interface. From there I wish they had realized that the game is already balanced...if and only if they follow the RAW. Then built all the greatness they have on top of that.

Instead the built up to the 22nd floor and realized that the foundation was wrong...OH CRAP!!!

I love BG3, and they are well on their way to arriving in London from Belgium, all the while traveling unwaveringly east.


It will never have a sense of time, day/night, weather, or a decent interface (baring a miracle...Its still not too late to outsource these obstacles), but I do appreciate what Larian has brought to the table.

I seriously doubt playing Pathfinder will change my opinion of BG3.


BG3 is a beautiful and fun game in its own right...just not faithful.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by Terminator2020
Well then winners,,, Saito Hikari and Terminator 2020 and my brother who find hardest challenge Cataclysm in Solasta as good challenge and know what tactics and spells to use and how to create excellent characters. Well and then some others who struggle on normal challenge level in Solasta. Yes I do hope Solasta will get another expansion in addition to Lost Valley. I am sure BG 3 will include rolling attributes and also have more then one challenge difficulty at full release.

At the end of day it does not matter. Play at what challenge level you want and enjoy games.
To add to what @Saito says, another problem is that the Solasta OC is balanced for what was available in the game at the time it was released. Now the game has gone through several DLCs, and even if you don't use those DLCs a lot of what was in the DLCs were also added into the base game. So the base game is no longer balanced because of items and abilities that are now in the game that were not there when the base game was released.
I hear you but I played it 2 years ago solo play and felt normal challenge level or even Authentic is way to easy. From what I heard game is now so that classes Barbarian, Druid and Ranger are better in expansion pack Lost Valley the before. Which is pefectly fine Battle Cleric is still powerful, but if someone wants to replace Cleric with a Druid I guess they are different but roughly same level at least if you take best Druid subclass.

Now I am not going into an argument which is better Cleric or Druid even in real Dnd 5. Well and as for Barbarian vs Paladin eh I think they are both good. Barbarian more independent but Paladin gets it aura at level 6 regardless of what Oath thus benefiting themselves and all allies within 10 feet radius. Paladin gets more specialized damage vs Fiends and Undeads with smites but less good when fighting normal example humans.

Well and in Lost Valley there are less amount of magical melee weapons which makes casters more interesting. Personally I think this approach is wrong melee classes should get access to magical weapons they do not need to be artifacts, but the basic magical stuff.

In the video @Saito gave great damage with long distance bow.

Patches has come and balanced well if that is so why do not all those players that struggled with normal challenge replay it with Cataclysm. Well and I do roll my characters I am sorry people are not equal in stats attributes even in real life any sport event in real life can prove that statement.

Last edited by Terminator2020; 25/12/22 04:33 AM.
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Oh? In the Lost Valley you are practically drowned in magical melee weapon options, now covering most previously non-existent types too (warhammers, spears, scimitars, mauls...). Plus you get an artefact weapon from a certain temple. If anything, the martials have never been better off in Solasta (though a lot of the weapon types are still missing, including most polearms...). If anything, I wished they'd made more of them just purchaseable or findable instead of crafted, because it's quite annoying as a mechanic, to be frank (encouraging you to just camp-spam since time doesn't matter).

That said, the Timekeeper Warlock is a freaking monster of a subclass. Once mine hit level 10, most things became hilariously easy, what with him giving away lethargy-free Haste like there's no tomorrow (pun intended), turning my barbarian into a death machine while himself spamming Agonizing Blast with its damage-over-time effect on top. 30+ damage on a cantrip is... an interesting experience. I really ought to give it another try on the Cataclysm difficulty and attempt to get a more coherent ending.

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Lost Valley certainly has a lot more magic weapons than the main campaign (I actually liked that magic weapons were rare in the OC -- reminded me of BG1 where magic special stuff was rare, rather than as commonplace as in Diablo). Coming back from Solasta (D&D5e) to WOTR (Pathfinder), Pathfinder (or D&D 3.5 too) must be quite the hassle to play in P&P. The amount of buffs applied in D&D5e-ish is fairly limited anyway, because of casters needing to hold "concentration" for every buff, which means they can only apply one buff at a time. But in Pathfinder, there's a tad more naturally.

Naturally, you're going to need all that, in particular in Owlcat's adaptations. The enemy defensive stats become increasingly this high, unless you're on lower difficulties, you need to stack one bonus atop of each other to even tickle them and make them giggle. Be it from caster buffs or else (talents/feats/weapons...).
+1 to hit from..
+1 to hit from..
+1 to hit from..
+2 to hit from..
+1 to hit from..


Speaking of which, I was lucky recently that I didn't go to a place earlier. But my characters got infected with a disease having a DC of 32 to cure. Which means, unless you're level 12ish or have the level 6 healing spell, you're not going to cure it (unless there is another way, haven't checked as I luckily had that spell on Sosiel). Whilst 5e may be a tad TOO stripped down. It's curious that Pathfinder at one point was more popular than D&D though -- but then I don't know what the issue with 4e was. (My only pen&paper experience comes from Das Schwarze Auge and a home-brew system of a former college associate+his friends of mine).

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My understanding is that actual tabletop Pathfinder is nowhere near as bloated as cRPG Pathfinder in terms of the way stacks stack (but still pretty bloated which is why 2e simplified a lot of things). Like my DnD tabletop friends with some experience in Pathfinder tell me that a lot things are stacking in the cRPG that don't stack in actual tabletop.

Yet WotR mythic paths are somehow actually weaker than tabletop mythic paths. Go figure.

Last edited by Saito Hikari; 25/12/22 09:59 AM.
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4e practically destroyed most mechanical differences between the classes by giving everyone a selection of at-will, per-encounter, and daily powers and removed a lot of effects and interactions (especially non-combat ones) that added depth to the system, while also striving to make the system more "approachable". Many of the implementations of how classes worked became very arbitrary, though they did try to tie it all into the lore (at least in FR, what with the Spellplague and the destruction of the Weave and all).

Them going for the cataclysmic event in the FR lore and killing off characters put off quite a few people too, I'd reckon, since as of 5e they'd just retconned and went back on most changes, practically reverting most things to their pre-4e state, and returning a hint of complexity into the system, though 5e still remains very much dumbed-down and shallow compared to 3/3.5e (I still can't wrap my head around spellcasters not triggering opportunity attacks when casting spells with adjacent enemies...). Removal of skill points, BAB, and the proficiency mechanic make - at least me - feel like there's barely any progression to what some characters can do on some levels, and that there's sometimes barely any difference between a martial, pseudo-martial, and spellcasting class performing in combat. Feats being heavily reworked and made an optional feature was also a strange move from the character building perspective. From what I've read about the One D&D, they seem to actually be going back to a few of the 4e's gimmicks again (like rituals being available to everybody, for example) and reducing the complexity even further, so it might be even more of a turn-off for a nerd like myself - I guess WotC found a specific niche with the Critical Role and such, and are keen on becoming even more approachable. Meh.

So yes, Pathfinder did find its niche with many players who were rightfully upset with 4e and whom 5e didn't really impress, either - myself included. Owlcat's implementation's problem is that, while it has a ridiculous selection of subclasses and feats, there aren't too many cool tricks, interesting spells, or viable (on higher difficulties, at least) combinations of classes that are satisfying to play as. My hope for Rogue Trader lies specifically in them abandoning Pathfinder (I imagine they aren't fans of 2e either...) and going for a bespoke ruleset instead. We'll see what comes out of it.

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I'm not gonna lie here. But Solasta was refreshing to play in that you don't need to stack a billion buffs and attack bonus on top of the base attack bonus, just in order you can hit more powerful enemies later on. My own party at the end of each Solasta campaign in terms of AC was in the 20s -- the same goes for the most powerful enemies. Naturally, that's only a part of D&D 5e (the binded accuracy part), though.

Even on the computer, where you don't need to do everything "manually", I find the lower level play, at least in those terms, to be more enjoyable. But then you're also managing a full party. Not just a character you role-play. It's not the buffing per se, it's minimal buffs and bonus that need to be stacked on top of each other to eventually do something useful.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Big parts of the entire system just scream: "Less but more unique would be more." Why are there so many buffs and talents that basically boil down to increasing hit chance by smallest of increments? How many healing spells do you really need? This isn't depth and complexity. It's just bloated, which is different. At least here it's the computer keeping track of all of that. laugh

Quote
“Okay, Dan, roll your attack.”

“Hold on, I’m making sure my bonus is right.”

“For the love of… don’t you have that written down?”

“I have my normal bonus written down but right now I’m raging, flanking, and enlarged… those all stack, right?”

“Yes. So that’s +2 for rage, +2 for flanking, and… how much for enlarged? Your version makes you Huge sized, how much Strength does that give you?”

“Plus 6. So that’s another 3 points.”

“No, only 1; you get a -2 penalty from the increase in size.”

“Wait, I have Outflank, don’t I get +4 for flanking?”

“Just +2; the person you are flanking with doesn’t have Outflank.”

“Okay. Oh! I forgot that we leveled up. So that’s another +1 for base attack bonus, plus I raised my Strength so another +1 there.”

“Aren’t you playing a 3/4s BaB class? I don’t think your base attack bonus went up this level. Also, are you still fatigued? That’s a -1.”

“Oh yeah. …Wait so what was my total bonus again?”


https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Pathfinder-sometimes-derogatorily-referred-to-as-Mathfinder

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Originally Posted by Brainer
Oh? In the Lost Valley you are practically drowned in magical melee weapon options, now covering most previously non-existent types too (warhammers, spears, scimitars, mauls...). Plus you get an artefact weapon from a certain temple. If anything, the martials have never been better off in Solasta (though a lot of the weapon types are still missing, including most polearms...). If anything, I wished they'd made more of them just purchaseable or findable instead of crafted, because it's quite annoying as a mechanic, to be frank (encouraging you to just camp-spam since time doesn't matter).

That said, the Timekeeper Warlock is a freaking monster of a subclass. Once mine hit level 10, most things became hilariously easy, what with him giving away lethargy-free Haste like there's no tomorrow (pun intended), turning my barbarian into a death machine while himself spamming Agonizing Blast with its damage-over-time effect on top. 30+ damage on a cantrip is... an interesting experience. I really ought to give it another try on the Cataclysm difficulty and attempt to get a more coherent ending.
Ok.

Well I like DnD 3.5 and Pathfinder and DnD 5. I do not like DnD 4.

Last edited by Terminator2020; 25/12/22 01:36 PM.
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Quote:

'm not gonna lie here. But Solasta was refreshing to play in that you don't need to stack a billion buffs and attack bonus on top of the base attack bonus, just in order you can hit more powerful enemies later on. My own party at the end of each Solasta campaign in terms of AC was in the 20s -- the same goes for the most powerful enemies. Naturally, that's only a part of D&D 5e (the binded accuracy part), though.

Even on the computer, where you don't need to do everything "manually", I find the lower level play, at least in those terms, to be more enjoyable. But then you're also managing a full party. Not just a character you role-play. It's not the buffing per se, it's minimal buffs and bonus that need to be stacked on top of each other to eventually do something useful.



Soooo...playing Pathfinder last night reminded me of the very points your making.

Pathfinder is D&D when the patent ran out and an upstart basically branched away from official D&D.

Pathfinder continues to stack more and more complexities, while WOTC greatly simplified things by 5e. BG2 had way more complexity for classes (Larian's brains would explode) than the BG3 erra. Both BG3 and Solasta are based on 5e, which is why they are much better suited for implementation comparisons.

Pathfinder had to make its own lore, while BG3 has a license that gives them access to the entire history of Faerun...poor Solasta is working with official D&D but didn't get the license that let them use all the story lore...wa wa wa (game show looser sound). Larian wins here.

Pathfinder table top was similar to 5e tabletop. Pathfinder does let you easily create very unique characters, but yes, the complexities are crazy in PF. It explains why the number one mod is a buff manager, that auto-casts all the necessary buffs you need for serious encounters. Solasta (witch started with like a quarter million dollar budget) manages 5e far better than Larian. In a three way contest, Solasta wins...you take the hammer and hit the nail...blink blink blink. How many Larian coders does it take to screw in a light bulb?

In a three way comparison, Larian stomps the other two in making a game that isn't so cartoon-like. Envisions big Ash stepping on a bunch of little Ashes..."London bridge is falling down...". BG3 is a beautifully crafted game. The characters, whether you love 'em or hate 'em are much more life-like. Larian completely out did themselves here.

Now in a two way comparison between Larian and BioWare, BioWare trounces Larian in creating an immersive Boulder's Gate setting in a world that feels alive and lived in. In the original BG setting, you step into a world with an Inn ("...as clean as an Elvin arse"), music, hustle n bustle, with no covid-era drama and brokeness...a place you would like to be.

~suddenly your thrust into an adventure with day night, weather, interesting people, and the urge to explore.

For all its beauty, BG3 completely misses this mark.

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By the way...in real life its just rude to go around picking people apart.

You keep your head down, mind your business, and if you can...reach out and extend a welcome kindness if it is in your power to do so.



In an early access forum, you have been invited here to be critical and no one likes a critic.

This is not a social forum, although hey, if you found someone to share a game with that is just a plus...awesome.

I try very hard to be accurate and to the point.


Sometimes I feel people take criticism as an attack on Larian. I am not here to upset you...I like Larian and want them to grow.

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Originally Posted by Sven_
I'm not gonna lie here. But Solasta was refreshing to play in that you don't need to stack a billion buffs and attack bonus on top of the base attack bonus, just in order you can hit more powerful enemies later on.
^This.

I absolutely hate the whole concept of "buffing" my party for every battle, or even for boss battles for that matter. I just hate it, and I never ever do any sort of buffing in any of my cRPGs. So that's my way of offsetting low difficulty in some of those games.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by Sven_
I'm not gonna lie here. But Solasta was refreshing to play in that you don't need to stack a billion buffs and attack bonus on top of the base attack bonus, just in order you can hit more powerful enemies later on.
^This.

I absolutely hate the whole concept of "buffing" my party for every battle, or even for boss battles for that matter. I just hate it, and I never ever do any sort of buffing in any of my cRPGs. So that's my way of offsetting low difficulty in some of those games.


Is why I am playing a Mad Dog barbarian in PF WOTR.

You scream...let your dog (named dog) trip them...then beat the crap out of them. I don't need to play stupid difficulty to make me buff dependent.


Solasta was very refreshing and not hard at all to make any class work. BG3 doesn't need buffs either, just tactics.


Note: Now I did love the challenge in Solasta of epic enemies like vampires. You did have to understand enemy weaknesses to beat them.

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Originally Posted by Brainer
My hope for Rogue Trader lies specifically in them abandoning Pathfinder (I imagine they aren't fans of 2e either...) and going for a bespoke ruleset instead. We'll see what comes out of it.
IIRC Owlcat straight up said during a stream years ago that they didn’t like Pathfinder 2E, so it’s unlikely we’ll see a 2E game from them.

There’s some hubbub in the DnD tabletop community over the possibility of WotC rescinding or heavily restricting the open game license or whatever it was with DnD 5.5. If so, it would explain why any news of further DnD games have basically halted. It doesn’t sound like WotC has reached out to Tactical Adventures at all regarding a Solasta sequel, which would also explain why they mentioned the possibility of Warhammer 40k or Pathfinder 2E for their next game back in the early Summer.

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Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
Originally Posted by Brainer
My hope for Rogue Trader lies specifically in them abandoning Pathfinder (I imagine they aren't fans of 2e either...) and going for a bespoke ruleset instead. We'll see what comes out of it.
IIRC Owlcat straight up said during a stream years ago that they didn’t like Pathfinder 2E, so it’s unlikely we’ll see a 2E game from them.

There’s some hubbub in the DnD tabletop community over the possibility of WotC rescinding or heavily restricting the open game license or whatever it was with DnD 5.5. If so, it would explain why any news of further DnD games have basically halted. It doesn’t sound like WotC has reached out to Tactical Adventures at all regarding a Solasta sequel, which would also explain why they mentioned the possibility of Warhammer 40k or Pathfinder 2E for their next game back in the early Summer.

Well, bugger. Here's hoping it's not quite true. If anything, Solasta and BG3 seemed like they'd pave the road for more attempts at adaptations, what with 4e having practically none (apart from the Neverwinter MMO which took... liberties, let's say).

As for the topic of spamming spells and continuous effects in 3.5e/Pathfinder - honestly, in a well-designed adventure one is supposed to be strapped enough with memorization to perhaps not have the needed things on hand at certain moments. A sorcerer especially just has to rely on what they have learned. Plus, when it's not 95% combat, you'd want a lot more utility spells to be around for use, which a sorcerer or a bard can't really afford, for example.

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Originally Posted by Van'tal
Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by Sven_
I'm not gonna lie here. But Solasta was refreshing to play in that you don't need to stack a billion buffs and attack bonus on top of the base attack bonus, just in order you can hit more powerful enemies later on.
^This.

I absolutely hate the whole concept of "buffing" my party for every battle, or even for boss battles for that matter. I just hate it, and I never ever do any sort of buffing in any of my cRPGs. So that's my way of offsetting low difficulty in some of those games.


Is why I am playing a Mad Dog barbarian in PF WOTR.

You scream...let your dog (named dog) trip them...then beat the crap out of them. I don't need to play stupid difficulty to make me buff dependent.


Solasta was very refreshing and not hard at all to make any class work. BG3 doesn't need buffs either, just tactics.


Note: Now I did love the challenge in Solasta of epic enemies like vampires. You did have to understand enemy weaknesses to beat them.
Right on.

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Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
Originally Posted by Brainer
My hope for Rogue Trader lies specifically in them abandoning Pathfinder (I imagine they aren't fans of 2e either...) and going for a bespoke ruleset instead. We'll see what comes out of it.
IIRC Owlcat straight up said during a stream years ago that they didn’t like Pathfinder 2E, so it’s unlikely we’ll see a 2E game from them.

There’s some hubbub in the DnD tabletop community over the possibility of WotC rescinding or heavily restricting the open game license or whatever it was with DnD 5.5. If so, it would explain why any news of further DnD games have basically halted. It doesn’t sound like WotC has reached out to Tactical Adventures at all regarding a Solasta sequel, which would also explain why they mentioned the possibility of Warhammer 40k or Pathfinder 2E for their next game back in the early Summer.
Yeah this.

I believe Owlcat moved on to WH40K exactly because Paizo told them they needed to shift to Pf 2e for any future games, and they decided 'no.' As for TA, they had already said in a stream quite a while back that after one more campaign DLC they would be moving on to a different IP, and specifically something NOT similar to Solasta, so prolly not even fantasy. Don't know if it has anything to do with the OGL. It is natural for devs to want to work on something different and not do the same thing again and again.

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