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Right now playing an origin is pretty much like playing a Tav with companion suit


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
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Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by 1varangian
Cutting down VO's by 50% is not the same thing as bland and devoid of character. I haven't read anyone requesting "bland" companions.
Oh so you're saying give up voice acting..
It's wasted on characters you don't like anyway since you will never hear 99% of it.[/quote]
VO is pricey sure, but I am not sure if it would equal writing, art, design, programming, cinematic team QA (and more?) required to add more characters in.

And with BG3 focus on cinematics partial VO is not an option.[/quote]
Less content for origin companions = less dialogue = less VO and cinematics.

All I'm saying is I would prefer a much stronger focus on Tav and more companions to choose from.

I'm not at all interested in playing Larian's origin characters as the protagonist.

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You may not be interested, but and what about those who are? I'm not and never will be interested in playing as them, but I won't say to remove it, or god forbid reduce the VO, the VO in this game is amazing and I think it's easily one of the best things so far. I just want that once the game is finished they manage to give Tav the similar treatment they're doing to the Origin characters.

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Originally Posted by Avallonkao
You may not be interested, but and what about those who are? I'm not and never will be interested in playing as them, but I won't say to remove it, or god forbid reduce the VO, the VO in this game is amazing and I think it's easily one of the best things so far. I just want that once the game is finished they manage to give Tav the similar treatment they're doing to the Origin characters.
Since Origin characters are pretty much a done deal and will definitely be part of the game that's the best we can hope for


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
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The only solutions for Tav to become interresting and special are to :
1) create a real background story for him that have consequences on his personnal story / quest.
2) write a special story for him that is not defined by his past actions.

I don't want Tav to have a background like Origin companion's have.
I think our characters past actions should not be defined by devs. In such a game every players should choose which character he wants to play.

But he should definitely have a story that only belongs to him.

In the old games he was the Bhaalspawn....
In PoE he's the guardian...
In WotR he find the sword...
In Solasta he wear the crown...

All this does not have any impacts on the personnality and the history of the characters we want to role play
It only define a part of his future. That's what makes them different and what makes them "main characters". That's what lacks in Larian's games, a story inside the main story for the main character.

We don't have to be the chosen one to have a different story... And finally even in DoS we're the chosen one... You only know it in the end if I remember well.

We should be the only one to make those dreams and have these powers for any reason and whatever our main character choice - Tav or an Origin character.

Of course custom characters should also be fully voiced. It really makes no sense at the moment...
First exemple in the game when he's trying to wake Shadowheart up on the beach... He directly shake her because he can even not try a "hey, wake up!".
No one would react like this.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 22/08/21 06:02 PM.
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The problem is it's impossible for Tav to have a unique background that is more connected to the main story than the origin characters because the whole point of the origin characters is to play AS them for the main story. The story has to be written as if there is no Tav. So we're either left with having a background story as good as one of the origin stories, which then makes Tav essentially a customizable origin character. Honestly, I'd take that over what we have now, because right now I'm just a random person that for some reason all of these people are following around like puppy dogs even though i have no personality (head canon aside) and no background.

Something like what Dragon Age did, with a selection of background stories would be awesome, it would make you feel connected to your custom character more while also giving a more fleshed out backstory that you actually had control over.

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I think a DA:O style background system would be a bit too complicated for the amount of races and classes that will be added to the game.
That said, I do really like DA:O's system even if I desired a bit more such as Apostate Mage and Daelish Elf Mage as options.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
The only solutions for Tav to become interresting and special are to :
1) create a real background story for him that have consequences on his personnal story / quest.
2) write a special story for him that is not defined by his past actions.

I don't want Tav to have a background like Origin companion's have.
I think our characters past actions should not be defined by devs. In such a game every players should choose which character he wants to play.

But he should definitely have a story that only belongs to him.

In the old games he was the Bhaalspawn....
Being a Bhaalspawn was not a story that belonged only to the main character in the BG saga. The opposite in fact, since the story was built on the premise that there was a score of them, and they would all kill each other bringing chaos to the world. The main villan in BG1 was one too. And if I had to name a unique Bhaalspawn, that would be Imoen, since she could be resurrected, while all others (including the main character) would upon death turn to dust and return the essence to the Throne.

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Originally Posted by Avallonkao
I'm not and never will be interested in playing as them, but I won't say to remove it,
I only wish there is more people with such mindset. frown


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Originally Posted by CJMPinger
I think a DA:O style background system would be a bit too complicated for the amount of races and classes that will be added to the game.
That said, I do really like DA:O's system even if I desired a bit more such as Apostate Mage and Daelish Elf Mage as options.

I don't think we need anything as elaborate as DA:O's system, but this might be the right direction to take.

1) Create entirely unique background tags for custom characters based on their place of origin. We already have the Baldurian tag. Add in a couple other locales, the most obvious ones being Waterdhavian and possibly Chult.

(Chult is a tropical island nation that has already been indirectly referenced within BG3, as there is a note at the harpy nest that seemingly references the Tomb of Annihilation module and its villain. This note appears to be completely original writing, as in, it's something Larian made and placed within the game themselves. As someone who did participate in an ultimately failed (as in, we wiped) tabletop campaign featuring that module, I am intrigued to see how this may later factor into BG3's story, and I can already think of a few reasons why this could be potentially important later. Especially in regards to the big bad's goal in that campaign.)

The big bad of Tomb of Annihilation was a lich named Acererak. To my understanding, and long story short, he was responsible for a curse that drained the souls of everyone that died, which made resurrection difficult and even temporary in some cases when it was performed. He was funneling the souls towards some kind of being that he had transported from the Astral Plane in an effort to transform it into a god, and presumably setting it loose within the material plane to ravage it once the process was complete. The goal of the campaign once the cause of the curse is discovered is to kill this being. Acererak does engage the party in combat afterwards, but the party can only try to survive and repel him. Interestingly enough, there is a clear distinction in that he did not intend to give himself that godlike power.

2) Those background tags should result in custom characters having meaningful interactions with the world that the Origin characters simply cannot have, the same way that custom characters cannot have interactions that the Origin characters do. This was the major thing that DOS2's customs lacked. For example, Gale talks about Waterdeep and the Yawning Portal after the scene with the goblin prisoner at the druid grove. We are unlikely to have another Waterdhavian companion, so a custom MC from Waterdeep will have access to an interaction not available to any of the origin characters here.

Granted, in regards to the rest of the world, Gale's Waterdhavian tag would probably act the same as a custom MC possessing it too, but there should be divergence here. Gale was a wizard that may have largely stayed above ground within the city. A custom MC should have the option to define if they were someone that also largely remained within the city, or if they were an adventurer that would frequently go through the aforementioned Yawning Portal to explore the Undermountain. Very different things. A custom MC that did the latter should definitely know more about Drow, and it may also explain how they got grabbed by the mindflayers to begin with. A custom MC that did the former would likely be a lot more aware of the political climate of the city, and I can imagine them making snarky remarks to Astarion about how Baldur's Gate and its nobles aren't anywhere near as grand as Waterdeep.

Though given that Gale talks about the Yawning Portal and his connection to the Weave, I wouldn't be surprised if he actually did venture into the Undermountain and met a certain important mage there at some point too.

Last edited by Saito Hikari; 22/08/21 07:30 PM.
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Originally Posted by ash elemental
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
The only solutions for Tav to become interresting and special are to :
1) create a real background story for him that have consequences on his personnal story / quest.
2) write a special story for him that is not defined by his past actions.

I don't want Tav to have a background like Origin companion's have.
I think our characters past actions should not be defined by devs. In such a game every players should choose which character he wants to play.

But he should definitely have a story that only belongs to him.

In the old games he was the Bhaalspawn....
Being a Bhaalspawn was not a story that belonged only to the main character in the BG saga. The opposite in fact, since the story was built on the premise that there was a score of them, and they would all kill each other bringing chaos to the world. The main villan in BG1 was one too. And if I had to name a unique Bhaalspawn, that would be Imoen, since she could be resurrected, while all others (including the main character) would upon death turn to dust and return the essence to the Throne.

It only belongs to him in the party you control.
And even if that's not 100% accurate considering the whole saga, his story and the events arround him were unique even if he was not the only Bhaalspawn in the world.

Sarevok and the other Bhaalspawn (included imoen) didn't have the same story.

If every companions had started in candlekeep, were a bhaalspawn, were attacked by Sarevok's assassin's, were captured by Irenicus for its power, became the slayer and so on... charname would not have been interresting at all in the story.

Originally Posted by Boblawblah
The problem is it's impossible for Tav to have a unique background that is more connected to the main story than the origin characters because the whole point of the origin characters is to play AS them for the main story. The story has to be written as if there is no Tav. So we're either left with having a background story as good as one of the origin stories, which then makes Tav essentially a customizable origin character. Honestly, I'd take that over what we have now, because right now I'm just a random person that for some reason all of these people are following around like puppy dogs even though i have no personality (head canon aside) and no background.

Something like what Dragon Age did, with a selection of background stories would be awesome, it would make you feel connected to your custom character more while also giving a more fleshed out backstory that you actually had control over.

It's not a problem at all.
They can create a background / a story that can suit the origin character.

Then the player's choices is :
1) to create a custom character that have it's own story (in comparison to it's companions) but a self made/imagined background OR
2) a predefned origin character that react events according to it's defined personnality + has the same unique story as Tav + it's sidequest.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 22/08/21 08:21 PM.
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i'm having a hard time understanding what you're saying. It sounds like you're just saying what we currently have is good, which if you're fine with, great, but some of us are not, hence this discussion and trying to solve the "problem"

Last edited by Boblawblah; 22/08/21 08:17 PM.
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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
i'm having a hard time understanding what you're saying. It sounds like you're just saying what we currently have is good, which if you're fine with, great, but some of us are not, hence this discussion and trying to solve the "problem"

Not at all what I'm saying. I'll try to explain it better with an exemple in which the main character would be the only one to make dreams and have new powers.

1) Solo playthrough - Playing a custom character :
Tav is the only one to have dreams and powers.
Companions have a tadpole and (don't) want to remove it.

2) Solo playthrough - Playing an origin character :
Your origin character is the only one to have dreams and powers (+ his side quest and dialogs answer)
Companions have a tadpole and (don't) want to remove it.

3) Multiplayer : Every characters have the dreams, custom or origin characters. Or only the host have the dreams. TBH I don't care, I won't ever play this game in MP.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 22/08/21 08:36 PM.
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So I'm OP's friend and just wanted to clear some stuff up that was kind of lost in all the replies, these thoughts are my own and do not reflect the Original Poster. I don't believe origin characters should be removed or deleted. Instead I believe they should co-exist however I hated DOS2's Fane, while I believe the character is interesting he quite literally changes the game entirely. Full disclosure, I have not played BG3 and don't plan to till launch just so I can experience it in its fullest, but reading onto the lore I definitely see characters that have potential for having the "fane" complex and in DnD that doesn't seem right to me as it's supposed to be about your character and your roleplay experience, how am I supposed to have fun if my story is constantly being hijacked by a character that is more loved than me, it would be the equivalent of a DM of putting their OC as the main character and everyone else is just supporting instead of the story being comprised of multiple individuals with their own stories uniting under one common goal.

I believe the pineapple pizza and kick in the balls is a good analogy, one of them is inherently better no matter how you put it. Which is why I ask, why should I be forced to make a character into an empty husk when they’d be more interesting if I can interact with them with my character? Why should I be forced to play as a character to get “more of the story” when the same could just be impactful OR just as important to my custom character? Truth is, while it shouldn’t, I also understand that its a game and having to code every possibility is impossible, but I’ve also seen great examples of this done right in many other games that I believe it can be done right in this one.

I know that it sounds like complaining or that I’m being overly negative but the truth is, I love Larian’s games and it sounds like they genuinely want to make something unique and are enjoying doing it, and all I can hope is that they at least address this in some way.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
i'm having a hard time understanding what you're saying. It sounds like you're just saying what we currently have is good, which if you're fine with, great, but some of us are not, hence this discussion and trying to solve the "problem"

Not at all what I'm saying. I'll try to explain it better with an exemple.

1) Solo playthrough - Playing a custom character :
Tav is the only one to have dreams and powers.

2) Solo playthrough - Playing an origin character :
Your origin character is the only one to have dreams and powers (+ his side quest and dialogs answer)

3) Multiplayer : Every character has the dreams, custom or origin characters. Or only the host have the dreams.
TBH I don't care, I won't ever play this game in MP.

except that it wouldn't make sense. I mean, all companions have the parasite, it's obvious so far that whatever is happening in the dreams, it's one of the results of it. So, what you're saying is that they should rewrite their story to make Tav the only important special kid and the rest... the rest.

There are ways to make Tav interesting without the need to diminish the companions in this regard, for once, I think a nice solution would be the actual backgrounds, change them in a way that what we choose will give us special dialogues to show some sort of connection to the past of our custom character. If I choose Soldier, give me soldier dialogues, etc. This is just an idea I had ofc, but I think they'll come up with something in time. At least I hope so.

I don't need my Tav to be the next Inquisitor or MC where everything is around them, where it's frustrating that the world cannot spin if I don't give them the final word. I actually like that the companions are so important to the story, and sometimes even more than my MC. Again, I just hope they give the custom character the same attention as the Origin ones.

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Originally Posted by Avallonkao
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
i'm having a hard time understanding what you're saying. It sounds like you're just saying what we currently have is good, which if you're fine with, great, but some of us are not, hence this discussion and trying to solve the "problem"

Not at all what I'm saying. I'll try to explain it better with an exemple.

1) Solo playthrough - Playing a custom character :
Tav is the only one to have dreams and powers.

2) Solo playthrough - Playing an origin character :
Your origin character is the only one to have dreams and powers (+ his side quest and dialogs answer)

3) Multiplayer : Every character has the dreams, custom or origin characters. Or only the host have the dreams.
TBH I don't care, I won't ever play this game in MP.

except that it wouldn't make sense. I mean, all companions have the parasite, it's obvious so far that whatever is happening in the dreams, it's one of the results of it. So, what you're saying is that they should rewrite their story to make Tav the only important special kid and the rest... the rest.

There are ways to make Tav interesting without the need to diminish the companions in this regard, for once, I think a nice solution would be the actual backgrounds, change them in a way that what we choose will give us special dialogues to show some sort of connection to the past of our custom character. If I choose Soldier, give me soldier dialogues, etc. This is just an idea I had ofc, but I think they'll come up with something in time. At least I hope so.

I don't need my Tav to be the next Inquisitor or MC where everything is around them, where it's frustrating that the world cannot spin if I don't give them the final word. I actually like that the companions are so important to the story, and sometimes even more than my MC. Again, I just hope they give the custom character the same attention as the Origin ones.

Why wouldn't it make sense ? You don't know yet why he would be the only one to have dreams.

We already all have a "special" tadpole.
Does Minthara, Gut and the hobgoblin have dreams and the same powers than our characters ?

Being the only one to make dreams does not mean that everything turn arround you.
The others also have a tadpole and already have special powers we don't have (i.e vampire under the sun) or a specific role in the main story we don't have (i.e an artefact)...

Why couldn't the main character (custom or origin) have something different ? Every companions have something different ! As I said the dreams is just an exemple (that would be a very nice reference to the old games), the special thing could be something else.

What the hell would it change to have a few more lines because you're a soldier ? The others soldiers would have them too...

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I just think there's no way to please you no matter what. The same answers you gave are well explained in the story so far, and the background/special character you want is just something you can't explain, except the exclusive dream part. I'll just leave you be from now on, I gave up trying to understand you.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
i'm having a hard time understanding what you're saying. It sounds like you're just saying what we currently have is good, which if you're fine with, great, but some of us are not, hence this discussion and trying to solve the "problem"

Not at all what I'm saying. I'll try to explain it better with an exemple in which the main character would be the only one to make dreams and have new powers.

1) Solo playthrough - Playing a custom character :
Tav is the only one to have dreams and powers.
Companions have a tadpole and (don't) want to remove it.

2) Solo playthrough - Playing an origin character :
Your origin character is the only one to have dreams and powers (+ his side quest and dialogs answer)
Companions have a tadpole and (don't) want to remove it.

3) Multiplayer : Every characters have the dreams, custom or origin characters. Or only the host have the dreams. TBH I don't care, I won't ever play this game in MP.

hmm, that's..actually a good way of making YOUR character feel more important, no matter who you choose. If I'm Shadowheart for one playthrough, she's the chosen one essentially, and my custom character is the special one on another playthrough. I like it.

edit: pointless drama removed

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
The only solutions for Tav to become interresting and special are to :
1) create a real background story for him that have consequences on his personnal story / quest.
2) write a special story for him that is not defined by his past actions.

I don't want Tav to have a background like Origin companion's have.
I think our characters past actions should not be defined by devs. In such a game every players should choose which character he wants to play.

But he should definitely have a story that only belongs to him.

In the old games he was the Bhaalspawn....
In PoE he's the guardian...
In WotR he find the sword...
In Solasta he wear the crown...

All this does not have any impacts on the personnality and the history of the characters we want to role play
It only define a part of his future. That's what makes them different and what makes them "main characters". That's what lacks in Larian's games, a story inside the main story for the main character.

We don't have to be the chosen one to have a different story... And finally even in DoS we're the chosen one... You only know it in the end if I remember well.

We should be the only one to make those dreams and have these powers for any reason and whatever our main character choice - Tav or an Origin character.

Of course custom characters should also be fully voiced. It really makes no sense at the moment...
First exemple in the game when he's trying to wake Shadowheart up on the beach... He directly shake her because he can even not try a "hey, wake up!".
No one would react like this.

This is more what I meant when I originally posted this. Something to make your character special that separates them and gives them a unique feel. Even if they keep with the origin system, making the character you start out as the "special" one is better because it gives me a reason to care for my character. Right now, everyone is an equal in the party and there's no leader. That works but causes the companion stories to be in a bubble because they have little to no interaction with the rest of the party.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
It only belongs to him in the party you control.
And even if that's not 100% accurate considering the whole saga, his story and the events arround him were unique even if he was not the only Bhaalspawn in the world.

Sarevok and the other Bhaalspawn (included imoen) didn't have the same story.

If every companions had started in candlekeep, were a bhaalspawn, were attacked by Sarevok's assassin's, were captured by Irenicus for its power, became the slayer and so on... charname would not have been interresting at all in the story.
And if you had Imoen in the party, then you had two Bhaalspawn you controlled as a player and they'd go through the adventure together. As for their special abilities, I'd take Imoen's ability to be resurrected over the slayer change (which I've found useless except for reputation management), if the game would let you choose. And I didn't find charname interesting to begin with. Everyone got the same background, same adventure (since the main plot was linear for the most part), only different strongholds and romances. Except if you prefer to play female characters, then you didn't, because your only option was Anomen.

By comparison in BG3 my drow druid felt very different than my githyanki wizard.

Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
1) Create entirely unique background tags for custom characters based on their place of origin. We already have the Baldurian tag. Add in a couple other locales, the most obvious ones being Waterdhavian and possibly Chult.
You already get that to some extent with drow, since disguising yourself as one doesn't give you all of the special conversation they get, and there are no drow companions. So it should be possible to expand on that.

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