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Originally Posted by KingTiki
I laughed out loud at this point. Maybe reread you own post history, before you shed crocodile tears over others calling your argument bad
Oh, listen, as far as I'm concerned you can just fuck off.
Crying that I'm not "getting enough fresh air" is a textbook personal attack and not that much of a strong point against my arguments as you seem to think it is.

What's next? The good old "Did someone piss in your coffee?". You aren't impressing anyone trying to pose as the rational one here.

Last edited by Tuco; 19/08/21 02:13 PM.

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I really would hate it, If they kill off every character not in the Party. Is that already a given or an assumption based in DOS 2?
As for party size: I'm with Tuco and Niara, it should be a party of 6. D&D has so many classes and possibilities, that limiting oneself to four characters only feels crippling. Plus it's tradition in the BG franchise to have 6 partymembers.


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Its not a personal attack, it was a reminder that you could calm down your over the top rhetoric by a lot of degrees. Take it from Raylan Givens:

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You run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. You run into assholes all day, you're the asshole.

And now take a good look around the things you post in this forum. Maybe there is a reason people tell you to come down on the regular. And since you really have brought no arguments to the table, this topic is done for me. If you want to be treated with and get respect you should make stronger arguments, not try to overcompensate your insecurities with stronger words.

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I really would hate it, If they kill off every character not in the Party. Is that already a given or an assumption based in DOS 2?
As for party size: I'm with Tuco and Niara, it should be a party of 6. D&D has so many classes and possibilities, that limiting oneself to four characters only feels crippling. Plus it's tradition in the BG franchise to have 6 partymembers.

Sadly I think its a given. Pretty sure they confirmed their plans to do so.

Still a solid no for party size in the wild, as for reasons above. The limitations only to have 4 at a time make for a more interesting story imo. BUT if they dont kill of the others you could at least switch companions out from time to time. So best of both worlds. The old games also worked off of very different rulesets and were often just a pure hack and slay with the occasional spell.

Last edited by KingTiki; 19/08/21 02:27 PM.
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Originally Posted by KingTiki
Originally Posted by Tuco
Aside for the fact that I have no idea of why you suddenly decided to go completely ballistic with personal attacks

I laughed out loud at this point. Maybe reread you own post history, before you shed crocodile tears over others calling your argument bad.
Nah you were the first to start out with personal attacks King. You were patronizing, responding to Tuco's post by telling him to "go outside and get some fresh air," to which he responded saying he does get fresh air and then critiquing your arguments regarding party size. Aggressive critiques, sure, but attacking your arguments and not you personally. Then you followed up with
Originally Posted by KingTiki
try to calm down a little bit, or at least have a clue about what you are talking about. Right now you just come off as a child throwing a tantrum, because it does not get sweets (-> more than 4 player party). [...]
Again: if you need help understanding those topics, just shoot.

On topic: Wow another thread about party size and (not) killing off companions. I wonder if any new arguments will be brought up.
+1 for not killing off the unchosen companions and +1 for optional larger party size with divided exp. If exp is divided, then there's no need for Larian to rebalance encounters, and players can play with party sizes of anywhere from 1-6 based on their preferences. Minimal effort but will make a lot of players happy.

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Nah you were the first to start out with personal attacks King. You were patronizing, responding to Tuco's post by telling him to "go outside and get some fresh air,"

"I mean, we agree on not killing the party, but by Avernus: you really need to open a window and get some fresh air.
[...]
So maybe calm down on the rethoric a little bit."

Which was a response to the ultra hyperbolic and also speculative bad faith assumption that Larian is some kind of evil Corporation thinking their players are dumbdumbs, while there are many other and also better reasons for this. (Also a broader point regarding his general behaviour in this forum).

"Stay civil" is not a personal attack. Because if someone thinks that these kind of assumptions are something that helps any kind of discussion or giving feedback, he is wrong. And it baffles me, that this is tolerated so widely here.

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Originally Posted by KingTiki
Its not a personal attack

It's basically the good old " Get a life, loser". It doesn't really get any more "personal attack" than this. And hilariously enough in response to the fact that I was supporting your initial point.

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And now take a good look around the things you post in this forum. Maybe there is a reason people tell you to come down on the regular.

I'm actually in pretty good terms with a lot of people here? Even some of the one I disagree with on a regular basis.

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And since you really have brought no arguments to the table, this topic is done for me.

Imagine thinking that bringing up the old tired "They would need to rebalance the fights!" (oh no, the horror) for the millionth time is actually an insightful and interesting argument to make, on the other hand.

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If you want to be treated with and get respect

I genuinely don't want shit from you.
I don't need, want nor value to any extent your "respect". And I don't look forward for your approval nor your attention.
But I do expect you to watch your mouth and keep the personal attacks for yourself.

Last edited by Tuco; 19/08/21 02:38 PM.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
Imagine thinking that bringing up the old tired "They would need to rebalance the fights!" (oh no, the horror) for the millionth time is actually an insightful and interesting argument to make, on the other hand.

Which is just a huge strawman, that I actually adressed. Like I said: you don't bother with other peoples arguments, because its harder to engage them, than just throw some words around and stomp the floor because something is not going the way you want it to.

But just to reiterate: the combat encounters and their numbers are not a *huge* problem, but they still need more work than normalized encounters. 4 player Parties probably have a lot of reasons, but none of them are your delusional "Larians thinks I'm stupid" argument.

The rest I am not going to engage with anymore, as I really don't care for some "internet though guy" shit, this is just pathetic.

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Originally Posted by KingTiki
[
Which is just a huge strawman.

Yeah, because this hyperbolic jump to conclusions isn't, on the other hand:

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Which was a response to the ultra hyperbolic and also speculative bad faith assumption that Larian is some kind of evil Corporation

Good riddance.


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the decision of limiting the party to four characters (under the assumption that your audience is made by smooth-brained people who can't keep up with the complexity of having more).

Yeah, you left huge amounts of room for interpretation with that wink

Seriously, its okay that you get off these kind of hyperbole assumptions, but don't expect everyone else to drink your Cool-Aid.

It is far more reasonable to blame it on "less work to do" than anything else. But you have to have your little conspiracy, right?

Seriously: maybe just calm your rhetoric down a few. Its sad seeing an adult behave like some edgy teen pretending to be an internet though guy.

I invite you to make a good and non-hyperbole argument, that shows that your theory of "Larian thinks i'm dumb" is better in any way than the simple "its less work". You won't. Because you are incapable to.

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Ah yes, the implication that they are dumbing down the design under the uncharitable assumption that the average user will struggle to keep up (something that they admitted themselves about other features, incidentally) surely EQUATES to say that "Larian is an EVIL CORPORATION" putting up a conspiracy.

Jesus Christ, why don't you keep your word and move on instead of swamping yourself more and more in idiotic arguments to keep the barrage going.

Last edited by Tuco; 19/08/21 03:12 PM.

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Originally Posted by KingTiki
@Arvguy:

I would assign all those feelings to nostalgia. Most people have it for something. As someone who has not played the old games in their time I found the characters pretty bland. But go on any forum with old garde fans and they will jerk oneliners like "I serve the Flaming Fist!!". I have a special place in my heart for some other old games and their characters, but I'm honest: if you would implement them the same way as 20 years ago, it would be a disappointment. That was my point. What they implement now is another standard. Its fully voiced and often animated stories, not just a few sound one-liners and some quirk. If you would do the latter thing, you could easily make double the potential companions, if not even more. They just would need a model and a few lines of sound and characterization. Today, I'd rather have less, but more fleshed out companions.
And yet I, and a lot of others, can actually remember those characters in some detail. Do you think you'll remember Laezel 20 years from now? Or Gale? Or Wyll? Do you think anyone is going to jerk oneliners like "Made room for the Blade of Frontiers!!" or such? Mind you, that flaming fist oneliner isn't a companion quote, it's something the random fisties would likely yell enough times during a playthrough of BG1 that you'd remember it.

That being said, you obviously cannot do a carbon copy of something that was done 20+ years ago and still expect it to work. 3D versus 2D, and then there's the whole fully voiced dialogue versus text. Outside of a very niche segment, you need full voice over. But I reckon the general principles of what worked then still works now. A few interactions with the player, a couple of interactions with the other companions, maybe a companion quest that sort of illustrates who they are, and a little bit of personality is really all that is needed. Games like Mass Effect and KOTOR did that too, and it worked just fine. Okay, the latter had mostly rubbish characters, but that was mainly a writing problem.

You don't need to spend a fortune on making every character able to react to every last thing the protagonist could possibly experience, and you don't need to make it a giant pain in the ass to make companions talk about themselves. Not everything has to be complex and massive and dark and brooding. Not every companion needs to have a world-altering dark secret that they will only tell you if you've managed to pass 14 different charisma skill checks to build up rapport and the sun, the moon, and 20 different stars are aligned just right.

By the way, at the risk of sounding like Tuco, who does perhaps eat his fair share of red meat, please don't fucking tell me that what I feel is just fucking nostalgia, unless you actually think that you can provide a proper and merited analysis of that claim. If you think you can, go for it. But it better not be "but I played those games too and I didn't feel, therefore your feeling is wrong!!!", because then I'll start eating my share of red meat too. I try to be polite, I really do, but please don't dismiss other people by hand-waving their thoughts away as merely nostalgia, unless you want them to hand-wave your commentary away as merely, well, insert perjorative explanation of your choice.

For clarification, I'm in the latter half of my thirties, I am neither entirely unread nor entirely without education, and I didn't play BG1 until probably 2010 or so. I tried BG2 early on, but I didn't really grasp it then. I got a lot more into it probably in the mid naughties, if I were to guess. That's when I started having the calmness of increasing age to take my time and "feel" the dialogue, and feel its implications, rather than just speed-read it and pick whatever. And suddenly a lot of things in the game worked a lot better.

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Enough. Play nice. As for this topic, it's clearly a write-off at this point.

Please do not feel free to resume the same discourse elsewhere. Some forum members are lucky I'm not handing out bans today (that includes reports which contain threats and/or are disingenuous).


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