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#788265 21/08/21 08:08 PM
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I started a new playthrough after a few months and some skills got changed, i am partocularly confused as to what "advantage" am i expected to have to be able to use sneak attack now? Apart from having another character next to target.

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Last edited by Andranik; 21/08/21 08:10 PM.
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I can't read your screenshot so forgive me if I'm not addressing the question right but what i've experienced so far is you get the advantage for sneak attacks when you're:

  • Attacking from 'shadows' (the only time I've seen this is in the cave goblin encounter under the grove)
  • When you're attacking from a high vantage point
  • When the enemy is blinded (EX: One of your other party members is using Dancing Lights)


But that's just the ones I've experienced, it might be available with any advantage/disadvantage like with bane.


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So they kinda nerfed it? If i remember right a few patches before a rogue did not have to do anything apart from just clicking it.

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What happened is that you don't get advantage anymore when attacking from behind (thank goodness). You still get advantage from highground, so ranged sneak attack should work just fine, unless advantage is cancelled out (long range, enemy hidden in shadows etc.)

You can still gain advantage when attacking from shadows, but sneak attack also triggers now, when enemy is engaged by one of your companions. So you enemy A is standing close to your companion (or someone hostile to him) you should be able to sneak attack him - a word of warning I did find this to be a bit unreliable at the moment, with sneak attack still not being possible, even though there is someone standing right next to him.

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I understand. But i cant sort it out in-game, i mean it sometimes works when anotehr character is within the target's range and sometimes not.

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It's not that they've introduced bugs, so much as their removal of 'from behind' advantage, and locking sneak attack so you can't select it when the game doesn't think it's valid, has allowed the existing bugs with sneak attack to become more visible to the masses.

Mechanically, you should be able to apply your sneak attack as long as you have advantage on the attack roll - and that advantage can come from *any* source.
You can also apply it if there is an enemy of your target (not necessarily your ally, just something that is hostile to it) within 5 feet of it that is not incapacitated (and thus able to harass/threaten it/occupy its attention); you don't need advantage, but you must not have disadvantage in this situation.

In game, however, this doesn't work smoothly and there are many situations where it fails to apply or doesn't work correctly.

The best thing any of us can do for sneak attack at this point is to take save files that illustrate the bugs (I.e. a save in a combat situation when it's your rogue's turn, and you are in a position to have sneak attack apply, while the game does not let you), and submit them to Larian directly in a formal bug repot, using their form. (https://larian.com/support/baldur-s-gate-3?ver=4.1.1.1203230#modal) (It's best if your report contains the actual save file plus the thumbnail image that will be in the same folder, and not just a screen shot that you take yourself - this allows them to replicate the issue directly)

Last edited by Niara; 21/08/21 11:34 PM.
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Originally Posted by Niara
In game, however, this doesn't work smoothly and there are many situations where it fails to apply or doesn't work correctly.
Unless I am missing something (like when an actor can act as a source of distraction) then the enemy should just check for concious enemies within small radious. I believe it is a new addition, so the system can be a bit unreliable at the moment.

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you can also reliably sneak attack from stealth as long as the enemy hasn't detected you, this works 100% of the time, so try and get into the habit of positioning yourself out of view, crouching, and then sneak attacking

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It's unclear exactly what parts are failing and why, as far as I know - just that sneak attack as a whole is often failing to properly acknowledge when its requirements are met.

The issue with it not granting sneak attack when there was no advantage but a suitable creature hostile to the target close to them is not new - it's been doing that for the whole EA - it's just more visible now that it will outright deny you the ability to use the 'skill' when it thinks you can't, as opposed to previously where it just let you attack and treated it like a normal attack.

I have a *hunch*, though I've not got sufficient data to prove it, that the error is actually in the order of circumstance checking in combat. I *suspect* that in situations where you have both disadvantage and advantage, (such as a high ground plus long range, being the most common example), which cancels out and gives a straight attack roll, AND an ally close to your target, it still denies you sneak attack because it reads a disadvantage situation *first* and locks it out right away; this would be incorrect coding of the ability, if that's what's happening.

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Originally Posted by Andranik
I understand. But i cant sort it out in-game, i mean it sometimes works when anotehr character is within the target's range and sometimes not.
Screenshots of situations when its does not work would be most appreciated and helpfull ...
As far as i know, it worked every time for me when i was behind enemy that was threatened by another party member ... AND (and that is most important) i had no disadvantage for attack, since that cancels advantage. wink

//Edit:
Originally Posted by Niara
I *suspect* that in situations where you have both disadvantage and advantage, (such as a high ground plus long range, being the most common example), which cancels out and gives a straight attack roll, AND an ally close to your target, it still denies you sneak attack because it reads a disadvantage situation *first* and locks it out right away; this would be incorrect coding of the ability, if that's what's happening.
I believe it would be right coding. O_o
Even tooltip sais you cannot have disadvantage aswell.

https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Sneak+Attack+(Melee)
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REQUIREMENTS
You have advantage, or another enemy of the target is within 1.5 m of it and you don't have disadvantage.

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 22/08/21 12:37 PM.

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Yeah this has been quite a frustrating recent change.

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The only thing that they actually nerfed is removing the possibility of getting backstab/advantage just by slowly walking around the target, and I would call that a net improvement since it was an idiotic interpretation of the rules and a mechanic that didn't make sense in the slightest.

For the rest it's just a matter of being more explicit on when the rogue backstab can be applied. As others pointed, even in the past often using the skill resulted simply in a normal attack. The game just wasn't clear about pointing it.

Last edited by Tuco; 22/08/21 01:23 PM.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
I believe it would be right coding. O_o
Even tooltip sais you cannot have disadvantage aswell.

https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Sneak+Attack+(Melee)
Quote
REQUIREMENTS
You have advantage, or another enemy of the target is within 1.5 m of it and you don't have disadvantage.

Aaaaand, as I said, Rag, in the most common example, you do not have disadvantage on the roll because you have an instance of both advantage (such as high ground) and disadvantage (such as being far away), and so your attack roll is made straight - i.e. not at disadvantage.

If there are five different factors that would give you disadvantage (You're at long range, and you're blinded, and you're restrained, and you're poisoned and your target is heavily obscured) and one factor that would give you advantage (your have high ground on your target), then you do *Not* have disadvantage to attack. Your attack roll is made as a normal roll, and you do *not* have disadvantage on the roll. If, by chance, the paralysed enemy you're shooting at has your friend standing next to them waving a sword at them as well, then you *CAN* apply sneak attack if you hit.

My suspicion is that the game is locking out Sneak Attack based on it reading a disadvantage factor being present, and not considering whether the roll is actually being made with disadvantage or not.

Last edited by Niara; 22/08/21 02:03 PM.
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The theory I've heard is that the game is checking for adjacent-allies within 5-ft of the center of enemy models. Since medium enemies have a 2.5-ft radius, this actually means your ally needs to be within 2.5 ft of the enemy. And it's impossible to be counted as adjacent (for the purposes of sneak attack) to a large or bigger enemy since their own character models take up space equal to or greater than this 5-ft "adjacent-ally" radius.

If anyone has gotten sneak attack from an ally being adjacent to a large enemy, speak up.

Niara's suspicion is also likely; the game checks "Is there a source of disadvantage?" instead of checking "Is the final roll made at disadvantage?"

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I thought that if you get 2 sources of Advantage they dont stack (therefore count as single Advantage) and then, if you have 1 source of Distadvantge, they cancel each other and result is regular roll ...
I stand corected.

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 22/08/21 04:13 PM.

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
The theory I've heard is that the game is checking for adjacent-allies within 5-ft of the center of enemy models. Since medium enemies have a 2.5-ft radius, this actually means your ally needs to be within 2.5 ft of the enemy. And it's impossible to be counted as adjacent (for the purposes of sneak attack) to a large or bigger enemy since their own character models take up space equal to or greater than this 5-ft "adjacent-ally" radius.
I was suspecting something of that kind. I do recall having issues backstabing goblin-doggos on regular basis. It also could be that I didn't stand near goblins enough, even though we were in each other engagement zone.

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
The theory I've heard is that the game is checking for adjacent-allies within 5-ft of the center of enemy models. Since medium enemies have a 2.5-ft radius, this actually means your ally needs to be within 2.5 ft of the enemy. And it's impossible to be counted as adjacent (for the purposes of sneak attack) to a large or bigger enemy since their own character models take up space equal to or greater than this 5-ft "adjacent-ally" radius.
This would explain my polar-bear-druid not being able to set up sneak attacks with Astarion. Maybe it also checks the center of the player-controlled character model?

Last edited by ash elemental; 22/08/21 06:39 PM.
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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
I thought that if you get 2 sources of Advantage they dont stack (therefore count as single Advantage) and then, if you have 1 source of Distadvantge, they cancel each other and result is regular roll ...
I stand corected.

That is correct, Rag, multiple sources of advantage or disadvantage do not stack. What you've just said is accurate and is in line with what I described, so I'm not sure why you're feeling as though you're being corrected...? If you have advantage and disadvantage coming from different sources - no matter how many of each you might have, they all negate each other and result in a flat, normal non-advantage, non-disadvantage roll. You might have 10 sources of advantage and 1 source of disadvantage effecting your roll - it's a normal roll. You might have 3 sources of advantage and 7 sources of disadvantage affecting a roll - it's a normal roll.

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And im confused once again. laugh
So ... if you want to have advantage, you cannot have any disadvantage, and it dont matter how many sources of each you could aply, they all count as 1 ... corect?

So how can you aply Snake Attack, if its description specificly tells that you need to have Advantage ... and litteraly "cannot have Disadvantage" ?


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Its quite a fair nerf as far as im concerned. But now i found something more irksome - the goblins in camp are now teleporting all across battlefield once i engage them as they please, anyone witnessed that?

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