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Originally Posted by teclis23
For me i genuinely dont like him. [...]

What i dont like about Astarion is that he is just way to much of a pansy. The way he speaks, his body language, his personality are all just so of putting its not funny.

Everyone seems to be ignoring the use of the homophobic slur here. Not OK, Teclis. I don't know how old you are, maybe this was out of ignorance more than malice, but the language here is unacceptable.

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Originally Posted by Try2Handing
Originally Posted by GM4Him
I'm trying to get people to maybe, just maybe, consider the possibility - possibility mind you - that Astarion and ALL the origin characters are maybe just a bit more than what you think they are.
Well there's nothing wrong with judging the character based on what has been shown and discussing what has been shown. Because if we just assume everyone is not who they seem and everything they do or say is just a facade, then we players wouldn't have much to talk about, would we? And I'd understand if people find it hard to expect from Larian the kind of character nuance and complexity you're talking about @GM4Him.

Why is it that you think I'm saying that there IS something wrong with the opinions of anyone on this thread? See. That's part of the problem. I'm just trying to provide a difference of opinion, but people seem to think I'm being absolutist, as if I'm saying I'm absolutely right and they are absolutely wrong. On the other hand, I find it ironic that I'm the one getting attacked, being told that I have no basis or foundation for my opinions and that I should just accept that Astarion, and the other characters, are all what they appear to be in the first 20% of the game; especially that Astarion is just some Twilight reject and nothing more.

THIS is why I asked what the point of the whole thread was. If everyone on this thread is really just here to vent about their negative feelings about Astarion, and they aren't willing to have a different opinion expressed, then I'll just exit the thread and leave you all to your Astarion-bashing.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Why is it that you think I'm saying that there IS something wrong with the opinions of anyone on this thread? See. That's part of the problem. I'm just trying to provide a difference of opinion, but people seem to think I'm being absolutist, as if I'm saying I'm absolutely right and they are absolutely wrong. On the other hand, I find it ironic that I'm the one getting attacked, being told that I have no basis or foundation for my opinions and that I should just accept that Astarion, and the other characters, are all what they appear to be in the first 20% of the game; especially that Astarion is just some Twilight reject and nothing more.

THIS is why I asked what the point of the whole thread was. If everyone on this thread is really just here to vent about their negative feelings about Astarion, and they aren't willing to have a different opinion expressed, then I'll just exit the thread and leave you all to your Astarion-bashing.
You realise that we only have that 20% to look at and respond to at the moment, right? And while it certainly is possible that Larian is writing something deep and twisty, would you not agree that it is also quite imaginable that Larian's plot and character development would be, ahem, a tiny bit more linear?

Also, you're not getting attacked, but you did say that the guy with zero vampire spawn abilities save a weird biting attack and no vampire spawn transformation, the guy who literally just lets himself gets murdered to death without doing anything vampiry, is actually a badass pretending to be weak. You must have expected some pushback on such a claim.

I do agree, however, that in order for things to begin making sense then there's going to have to be some serious plot twists and some serious tadpole shenanigans going on, but I am just not positively convinced that the company that couldn't be bothered with half-decent movement mechanics, that couldn't be bothered with non-garbage inventory management, that couldn't be bothered with a day/night cycle, that couldn't be bothered implementing ranged weapons in a non-silly way, that couldn't be bothered making a big enough game world that ordinary D&D ranges make sense, and which initially brought DOS2 barrelmancy surface fun straight into BG3 is suddenly giving a maximum effort on the story. I fear, and this is of course very subjective, that Larian will cut as many corners on the story as they appear to have everywhere else.

But gods above, do I hope that I'm wrong about that. Regardless, think of my ranting in this topic as a conditional evaluation. IF we're seeing the full extent of their idea of Astarion the Vampire Spawn, THEN I am not pleased at all. And IF it turns out, as you predict, that he's much deeper and meaner and predatorious and maybe even a full vampire that goes total Mannfred on us, THEN there really isn't a complaint.

Frankly, I think we all want the same thing, for Astarion to be revealed as a mean psychopathic murder-machine that radiates danger, but you're confident that it will come and a lot of the rest of us are not quite as confident.

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Originally Posted by ArvGuy
Frankly, I think we all want the same thing, for Astarion to be revealed as a mean psychopathic murder-machine that radiates danger, but you're confident that it will come and a lot of the rest of us are not quite as confident.

For me all this happened already. First change he got he murdered me.

And I absolutely do not want that. Thus murdering me made my Tav and myself dislike that character totally. I do not like psychopaths.


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Astarion killed you? Wow! What choices did YOU make. I've never been killed by him. I've ticked him off, but never gotten attacked by him.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
OK. I'm seriously wondering if we're all playing the same game. What part of what I said is me making anything up and telling my own story? How do I have no foundation or basis?

snippet

You judge him based on the 80% that isn't there, and give a whole different spin to the 20% that is. Like, just look at your points. Your argument works on the assumption that the idiot who revealed his vampirism trying to bite us, is some absolute mastermind who's lying about everything. Pun non-intended.

And they also work under the assumption that the same writers who couldn't be bothered with hiding - at all - any of the companions' so called secrets, have 50 twists planned for Astarion, the most transparent of them all.

Might be, might not be, i guess. But if we go down that road then anything could be, and we might as well be talking about our MCs. At least we'd all be on equal footing.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Astarion killed you? Wow! What choices did YOU make. I've never been killed by him. I've ticked him off, but never gotten attacked by him.
If you don't stop him when he's drinking, he'll suck you dry. And not feel the least bit guilty about it, despite having promised to behave just moments before.

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Oh! That's what you're referring to. I did that once just to see what would happen.

I'm glad you brought that up. That's a perfect example of what I'm saying. It's a hint at his true character. Give him an inch and he'll take a mile. If you LET him, if you drop your guard, he will kill you. So is he just some weak, flamboyant idiot, or is he a vicious predator undead vampire or vampire spawn who is just pretending to be trustworthy and nice so he can suck your blood dry when the right moment comes?

But honestly, even if the reason he kills you if you let him is simply that he's never tasted humanoid blood, and since you're letting him he's going to take full advantage of it even if it kills you, how is that terrible writing on behalf of the writers of the game? If you are going to let a vampire bite you, and then you are actually the kind of person who will let him continue to drain your blood until you die, then don't you technically deserve it? I mean, in the words of Obi Wan Kenobi, "Who is the more foolish; the fool or the fool who follows him?"

So if you're foolish enough to a) Let a vampire spawn bite you; and b) Let him continue to suck your blood and not shove him away, wouldn't it then be bad writing to have Astarion actually pull away at some point and say, "Ahem. So sorry to drain you for so long. I'd best stop before I kill you." Wouldn't THAT be more like a Twilight wannabe vampire person instead of a vicious, can't-wait-to-drink-your-blood vampire spawn who's just pretending to be weak and such until he can find the right time to kill you?

So, question is, did he MEAN to get caught trying to suck your blood, to test your character and determine how foolish you were, or did he truly get caught in some clumsy attempt to bite you? After all, the Narrator says something along the lines of, "You don't know whether you awaken because you detected him or whether you were just lucky." In other words, the writers imply that, at this point, you can't be sure if he MEANT to wake you or whether you just got lucky.

But I will say, unless it's just bad game design, which I admit is entirely possible, it sure seems to me like he intended on getting caught. After all, he creeps up on you IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CAMP WITH ALL THE OTHER COMPANIONS WITHIN 5 FEET OF YOU. So yes, either he's a total idiot or he meant to be caught. If he meant to be caught, then he's a manipulator and quite crafty, testing the waters to see what kind of person Tav really is. If he's an idiot, then fine. I 100% agree. If he's an idiot then it's poor writing by Larian and it really will be a total disappointment for me. He'll quickly go from one of my favorite characters to an absolute worst in very short order.

But that is also true for all of them. If they've all revealed their "greatest secrets" in the EA, and there's really nothing more to them, then I will be VERY disappointed indeed. But since Larian has said that we have no idea what is coming, I suspect that these "Grestest Secrets" are but small nothing backstory items. Their true secrets have yet to be revealed.

And the images back this up. Look at Gale's Lightning Spewing at Skeletons image. He's like an insane crazy person. Is that an image based on the future of the game, or is it part of his backstory? Same with Wyll and Mizora image. Wyll looked like some noble with Mizora on her back, and they appeared to be in some sort of smoking ruined wasteland.

Could just be my fan theories, but I suspect those images aren't future events. I think they are images of what these characters used to be prior to the game. But we'll see.

And yes, I have VERY high hopes for Larian. They've produced an awesome game so far. It quickly became my all-time favorite video game. After my first playthrough, I was totally hooked and couldn't want to play beyond EA. When I did my second playthrough, I was amazed that it was SUCH a different experience from my first playthrough. I've never played a game that I've actually wanted to play through so many times just to try out new and different avenues. I've tried to break the game multiple times; to do things I thought Larian would never expect me to do, and they DID!

So yeah, I have high hopes for them that if they put THIS Much into the EA, the rest of the game is going to be awesome. I can't imagine that they've worked this hard to set up the game this much only to have them drop the ball and be lame later. Granted, it could happen. Other games have disappointed me like that, but based on what I'm seeing, I have a lot of high expectations.

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I would say he is my favorite companion. I have never watched Twilight or read the books, btw. What I find attractive is his backstory and how fragile he is behind the mask of a monster and a jester (probably both). He needs help but he does not know how to ask it. At the same time he does have his dark impulses and he has addiction problems (killing you during the bite is just that: his inability to control himself). If you look at his skills, intimidation is not on the list. But he is manipulative and yes, he does want power as a way to get out from his position. I think in his world, there are only predators and prey. He wants to be a predator. It is not surprising, considering what he endured throughout the centuries.


The way he is written I think he is open to influences, perhaps even an alignment change. I also think his romance is also the trickiest of them all. It can end horrible and I am not sure a true happy ending is possible (the best you can hope is a bittersweet one). I also think that if there is some sympathy between Tav and him (approval rating), he is one of the more reliable characters from the current party. At least until you meet Cazador and he faces his dilemma.

I also think his opening scene is great. Why? If this person had the chance to slit my throat but he did not do it, I might not fully trust him but I will still view him with more trust than somebody who did not have this chance. At least in the current environment.


@GM4Him

I think you do overestimate Astarion's ability to plan. He is crafty but he does not strike me cool headed enough to weave sophisticated intrigues. I think Gale and Shadowheart might fall more easily into this category (though this will be a gross simplification). I think Astarion just messed up and was caught. But he is good enough to... improvise.

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@GM4Him, i..really hope you're not too disappointed by this game. I mean, this is Larian we're talking about here. This is the same company that spent a decent amount of time drawing out sex position story boards for this game. Everything about Larian just SCREAMS memes/fun/don't take things too seriously. To think that Astarion of all characters is this shady mastermind, secretly testing our player character is going way over the top imo. Hey, if I turn out to be wrong, and there's way more to these characters than the painfully obvious (shadowheart isn't really a willing follower of shar - le shock!) I'll gladly say I was wrong, but I just can't see it.

You keep saying we've only seen 20% of the game but the fact is, Characters need to make sense from the beginning. Shadowheart already has hints that she's not who she really says she is. Astarion though, nothing you're implying is backed up in the game at all. honestly though, i hope you're right, it would be great to not think of Astarion as anything than a meme/fanart-bait.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
I'm glad you brought that up. That's a perfect example of what I'm saying. It's a hint at his true character. Give him an inch and he'll take a mile. If you LET him, if you drop your guard, he will kill you. So is he just some weak, flamboyant idiot, or is he a vicious predator undead vampire or vampire spawn who is just pretending to be trustworthy and nice so he can suck your blood dry when the right moment comes?
Well, flamboyant idiot, obviously. He doesn't even have a strength to control himself, not to mention manupulating others. He fails to feed on you, unless to allow him to, and he fails to stop himself unless you intervene.

If you tell him to get lost he eventually goes rabbit due to the lack of consumed blood. He doesn't seem like a very competent fellow.

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@Scales and Fangs. Hmmm. Maybe. That's a fair potential assessment and I admit fits with what we've seen so far in the game. You could be totally right. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

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Originally Posted by teclis23
For me i genuinely dont like him. For me he just doesn't tick any boxes at all. Littereally none.

To clarify i really like lazael, Shadowheart and Gale. I think larian has done an awesome job with all three of these. But not Astarion.

What i dont like about Astarion is that he is just way to much of a pansy. The way he speaks, his body language, his personality are all just so of putting its not funny.

Is anyone else seeing this? I personally would like larian to remove him.

thoughts people?

I personally dislike Astarion. I just don't click with Astarion and i don't quite like him though. I don't have issues with other companions. I have no idea why. I dislike his character design, his look, his hair, it just doesn't click with me. I think perhaps his hair is the worst offender for me along with how his looks. I hope someone can mod his look to someone else.

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I don’t like any of them at all. They’re all so melodramatic and over-the-top special that it’s ridiculous. God I miss Edér.

All right, Shadowheart is ok. Eventually.

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@OP: No, I honestly dont.

Dont think its the character concept itself or the way Larian implemented him. I just dislike the 'smooth' talking 'im better then you' attitude that comes from his noble background. I generally cant stand snoody characters. So thats actually well done by Larian id say.

I did just start a playthrough where I took the characters along that I dident last time, but I started like 2 days before the next patch was announced so its on hold till it drops xD maybe he will grow on me if I get to know his character abit more. But instant reaction was 'ieuw'

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Originally Posted by Slapstick
I don’t like any of them at all. They’re all so melodramatic and over-the-top special that it’s ridiculous. God I miss Edér.

All right, Shadowheart is ok. Eventually.
I kind of disagree to an extent. Actually in their world the only special one may be Shadowheart. Lazael is just a soldier. Wyll village boy whose home was destryed by Goblins (lol Goblin Slayer music intensifies). Astarion a vampire slave. Gale probably a mage who tried to take a shortcut to gain power and ended up the way he is. Shadowheart may actually be a favored by Shar.
I do agree they all seem to be a little melodramatic at times, but I assume it's because of the ticking time bomb in their heads.
As for OP question about Astarion. I don't use him in the party, but I do enjoy his overly flamboyant nature, and he seems to be more on the chill side of your entourage.

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I like Astarion and think he's WAY too underestimated by SO many.

And I like all the characters. Also, as I think I've mentioned before, what makes you think they aren't all special for a VERY good reason? I think each one of the origin characters was chosen for specific, special reasons. There is something about each that the Absolute, or whoever, is after. I don't think the MC is the only one.

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Originally Posted by Slapstick
God I miss Edér.
At least PoE1 Edér. He became a bit too eager to remind you that he really really likes animals.

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I never liked male edgy flirty characters, if Aastarion was female I would be more into it but it is what it is.

Who knows maybe he will grow on me.

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Astarion is the Kid which has no family, was enslaved, made undead and living for eternity, has to drink blood which is disgusting, is angry about his life.
That anger which defines his actions is what we can deal with or just dismiss him as its totally "normal???" in our real life society.
Thats called "Cancel Culture"
Just make him go away, i dont need it. Why should i have anything to do with disfunctional people. They dont have a place here.

You might say this is what you want, by saying that you dont like his character.
Maybe because you have to deal with his sad life in this game and it is outside of your comfort zones?

I dont know, i think its good that hes here in this game for us to remember us that theres so many different people out there and everyone has the right to get his chance of getting back to be the good guy.
As everyone is intrinsically born altruistic into our real world.

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