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I know this thread is focused on voice, but performance includes gestural stuff and movement as well, which we see on full display in our very first "cutscene convo" to crack Us out of their skull-prison. So just to get into that non-verbal flair for a moment:

Watch how the Main Character approaches...

Regardless of which voice/class/background etc you select, the MC is going to slow step over to that corpse in a chair, popping their heels and floating their hands along the way, like they are walking the catwalk, and they know the whole universe is watching their ass.

Now reload and instead of using a hotshit Elf, Human or Tiefling MC (that everyone is probably playing) watch how this scene plays out with a burly Dwarf doing the same. It's pure comedy lol.

And that's just dissecting how the main character walks. Now add in the facial expressions they make during this whole exchange. Is that your character?

Then take the next scene with Lae'zel and watch her gestural performance there, compared to the MC's reaction shot. I can tell exactly what Lae'zel is about and who her character is (an aggro fighter) without even hearing her voice. Now look at the MC with their hair blowing in the wind looking all extra vapid in response hehe.

You quickly realize that it's not just Voice that is going to intrude on your sense of character (the MC is silent in these exchanges) but all our gestures and movements and reaction shot facial expressions. They are pre-dialed, and our performance is predetermined.
This is what happens, because all the direction is the same. Same blocking, same gestures, same speed. It doesn't matter if your MC is a massive Gith warrior, or a dainty Elf rogue, the animations and whole scene will be basically identical regardless. I'm not saying they couldn't do stuff with enough variety and differentiation to make each Main Character performance feel unique, but it goes well beyond voice acting.

I loved Morrigan! Now that was a complete performance! I just think the more cinematic the experience becomes the more work they have cut out for themselves. I stop judging it like a crpg video game at those points and start judging it by the standards of theater or cinema. I don't want my protagonist to feel like a bad actor on top of everything else lol. Again it's not that they couldn't pull it off, but I don't know that Larian has demonstrated they understand how to use the Prologue. They are using it currently to set up the Plot, rather than the Character. Trying to make the audience care about Plot before they care about Character is very challenging.

Last edited by Black_Elk; 20/09/21 07:31 AM.
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Here's an example of a missed opportunity: Everyone's favorite "Meat to the Face" shot right before falling off the Nautiloid. It happens to everyone currently...

Now what if that happened the first time, and you were playing a big hulked out warrior with low Dex. They get smacked in the gob as usual.

But next playthrough the character is a Rogue with high Dex. They dodge the flying meat and smirk before swan diving out the Nautiloid.

Next playthrough after that the character is a Cleric, and some divine light intercepts the flying meat and suspends it mid-air while a halo appears above the Character's head and Gregorian chant starts playing.

Perhaps the Character is a Monk, and they catch the meat with lightning reflexes and crush it with their iron fist Wushu style. Then they backflip off the Nautiloid.

See what I'm saying?

They could be doing things to set up a feeling of unique Character, but they're not doing it. The prologue would actually be a good place to start, since its so repetitive and we are forced to play it out every single time.

Those are bare bones examples too, reducing Character to Class. But they haven't even got that far yet. To say nothing of different backgrounds or alignments or whatever within the same Class archetype. If they can't even make my Warrior feel different than my Rogue, what are the odds they're going to be able to make my Evil Self-Serving Supremely confident Wizard who grew up as a Criminal on the mean streets of Baldur's Gate feel any different than my Goodly Goofy Altruistic Wizard who loves animals and really wanted to be a circus performer, but couldn't because his Noble parents forced him to go to an ivy league Wizard's prep-school? I'd say the odds are basically zero hehe.

I think they have to choose. Either they can have a really spectacular and engrossing but singular performance, or they can maintain the pretense of player character choice and control with some variety. I don't think they can really have both in a game like this. It's probably not impossible to achieve both, but I've yet to see that pulled off in an RPG game, or any game really. The requirements to set that up are so much more demanding than just voice work, once they've decided they're going to show us the Protagonist performance In-Full, as if this was a movie. I think its better not to hold up the mirror in that case, at least not in a D&D game. Like just don't show us, and we can maintain the illusion. Show us and that illusion is dispelled. The player character in the latter case must be content with just fitting the part and playing the role they're given. The player becomes a spectator or voyeur, rather than the one innovating or creating a role of their own. Totally different forms of role play and a very different sense engaging with the idea of performance.

I'm not sure if the OP question was really in reference to the Main Character, but that's how I read it. For the MC the answer is "almost irrelevant" and I think it damages the whole vibe just by existing, but for NPCs the answer would be "extremely important" and the quality of the voice acting is probably the be-all in that case. It works for Morrigan as my companion, but I don't want to be Morrigan as my protagonist, if that makes sense. I think Larian has hopelessly complicated things by suggesting that we should be able to do the latter in a D&D game with their divisive Origins concept. I find the whole concept of a Pre-Gen protagonist anathema to the central project of D&D.

The mise-en-scène for the "Crashing Nautiloid" says so much about what this game is, and what it's trying to be. It's impossible for me to avoid coming back to it, even if I don't really have choice anyway. The fact that they've spent a year on the first Act, and yet the prologue remains largely unchanged (except we can spring Shadowheart from her tank I guess, and now it's night time, sorta?) it just says a lot to me. They need to try a bit harder there, if they want to win me over. Don't make me wait 3 hours to find out what you've been working on lately. The prologue should be a fucking masterpiece by now. They've only had what, like a thousand rehearsals? lol

Last edited by Black_Elk; 20/09/21 07:45 AM.
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Originally Posted by Black_Elk
Now what if that happened the first time, and you were playing a big hulked out warrior with low Dex. They get smacked in the gob as usual.
That would be nice, and would make sense in a cRPG with cinematics. Of course that would mean incredible amount of extra work for a lot of people. I don't get the "meat to the face" to begin with. It's Snakes on a Plane kinda stupid.

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I dont generally care much. I would want some voice acting in important scenes just to establish the characters better but full voice work is certainly not neccessary and even unwelcome in my case, since its almost always a case of getting more voice work over more lines of script and I will always rather have more content and reactivity, than voice acting.

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Originally Posted by SaurianDruid
I've tried to play Fallout 4 several times now but keep losing interest before I ever meet the Institute because no matter what angle I come at it from my character that I make sounds and behaves exactly like all my other attempts, and NONE of them have been the character I sat down and designed for the game.
Can you play with voices turned off and use subtitles instead? I find that to help me a lot when dialogue options are not ideal. Makes it easier to hear in my head what my character would actually say. Also there is a mod called Start Me Up that makes dialogue edits so if you pick an alternate start you don't have to hear constant nagging about the kid.

Originally Posted by Black_Elk
You quickly realize that it's not just Voice that is going to intrude on your sense of character (the MC is silent in these exchanges) but all our gestures and movements and reaction shot facial expressions.
This is very true. I wish they would give us demeanour tags or even better, remove the stupid facial expression cut scenes. They are very immersion breaking. For the movements, they should add different ones for each race and maybe sex. Just please none of the overdone ass swaying that is often inflicted on female characters.

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Originally Posted by Black_Elk
I know this thread is focused on voice, but performance includes gestural stuff and movement as well, which we see on full display in our very first "cutscene convo" to crack Us out of their skull-prison. So just to get into that non-verbal flair for a moment:

Watch how the Main Character approaches...

Regardless of which voice/class/background etc you select, the MC is going to slow step over to that corpse in a chair, popping their heels and floating their hands along the way, like they are walking the catwalk, and they know the whole universe is watching their ass.

I think the gestures and facial expressions absolutely should be discussed! Voice acting can be applied even to games with smaller budgets, which is probably why it was more of a focus on my end. But the acting in this game has a physical flourish that reminds me a lot of theatre acting. Granted the cinematic style would probably benefit from a more muted movie/television performance a la Red Dead 2 or The Last of Us, but I feel like the theatrical performances hit closer to the soul of table top role playing.

Originally Posted by Black_Elk
Now reload and instead of using a hotshit Elf, Human or Tiefling MC (that everyone is probably playing) watch how this scene plays out with a burly Dwarf doing the same. It's pure comedy lol.

And that's just dissecting how the main character walks. Now add in the facial expressions they make during this whole exchange. Is that your character?

Then take the next scene with Lae'zel and watch her gestural performance there, compared to the MC's reaction shot. I can tell exactly what Lae'zel is about and who her character is (an aggro fighter) without even hearing her voice. Now look at the MC with their hair blowing in the wind looking all extra vapid in response hehe.

You quickly realize that it's not just Voice that is going to intrude on your sense of character (the MC is silent in these exchanges) but all our gestures and movements and reaction shot facial expressions. They are pre-dialed, and our performance is predetermined.
This is what happens, because all the direction is the same. Same blocking, same gestures, same speed. It doesn't matter if your MC is a massive Gith warrior, or a dainty Elf rogue, the animations and whole scene will be basically identical regardless. I'm not saying they couldn't do stuff with enough variety and differentiation to make each Main Character performance feel unique, but it goes well beyond voice acting.

This is a fair assessment, and echoes similar thoughts I’ve had. Like when I was playing a hardened drow character and they made a horrified expression at Arabella’s death. It took me completely out of the moment. Their adjustment so far seems to be to cut these extraneous expressions out entirely, but I’d love it if they could find some way to blend class, race, and background when determining animation cycles. That might not be possible due to budget constraints but wow would it be a major breakthrough for the silent protagonist if they could pull it off. Otherwise we might just be stuck with viewing personal conversations primarily via shot-reverse shot or first person—not a bad thing, necessarily, leaning into the voyeur aspect you mention later—but perhaps a missed opportunity.

Also, fun fact, but Lae’Zel’s introduction was what sold me on the game. Even though the animations were janky, her character came across so clearly it reminded me of watching Gillian Anderson perform Blanche with such physicality that I could forget her terrible southern accent entirely LOL.

Originally Posted by Black_Elk
I loved Morrigan! Now that was a complete performance! I just think the more cinematic the experience becomes the more work they have cut out for themselves. I stop judging it like a crpg video game at those points and start judging it by the standards of theater or cinema. I don't want my protagonist to feel like a bad actor on top of everything else lol. Again it's not that they couldn't pull it off, but I don't know that Larian has demonstrated they understand how to use the Prologue. They are using it currently to set up the Plot, rather than the Character. Trying to make the audience care about Plot before they care about Character is very challenging.

Crpgs are a very young medium on the whole, while theatre and movies have been around for quite some time now, so I understand not quite evaluating them on the same level. And that’s without taking into account the balance between the gameplay crowd and the narrative crowd.

I see what you mean by plot over character. Right now they’re making the tadpole mystery the central premise and building their main cast around it. In medias res style openings seem to be all the rage for a lot of video games lately as well. I can understand the appeal. Hook people with a central mystery and let everything unfold around that. But it can also strain suspension of disbelief if it’s not handled with care. Already ‘because tadpole’ seems to be the answer to a lot of questions in the game, which is a touch concerning.

Originally Posted by Black_Elk
I think they have to choose. Either they can have a really spectacular and engrossing but singular performance, or they can maintain the pretense of player character choice and control with some variety. I don't think they can really have both in a game like this. It's probably not impossible to achieve both, but I've yet to see that pulled off in an RPG game, or any game really. The requirements to set that up are so much more demanding than just voice work, once they've decided they're going to show us the Protagonist performance In-Full, as if this was a movie. I think its better not to hold up the mirror in that case, at least not in a D&D game. Like just don't show us, and we can maintain the illusion. Show us and that illusion is dispelled. The player character in the latter case must be content with just fitting the part and playing the role they're given. The player becomes a spectator or voyeur, rather than the one innovating or creating a role of their own. Totally different forms of role play and a very different sense engaging with the idea of performance.

At the very least, they need to figure how best to allocate their resources. Larian has a fairly considerable budget, but it’s not unlimited, and even if it was they’d still have to deal with deadlines and the expectation that the game releases in around two years. I’ve heard rumblings of the silent protagonist being fully voiced, and frankly I would much rather have a variety of scenarios akin to the ones you proposed than an MC who talks. It’s already rather jarring in its limited occurrences. SaurianDruid brought up Fallout 4, and while the dialogue feels a fair bit more robust, it’s a genuine concern and complaint.

Originally Posted by Black_Elk
I'm not sure if the OP question was really in reference to the Main Character, but that's how I read it. For the MC the answer is "almost irrelevant" and I think it damages the whole vibe just by existing, but for NPCs the answer would be "extremely important" and the quality of the voice acting is probably the be-all in that case. It works for Morrigan as my companion, but I don't want to be Morrigan as my protagonist, if that makes sense. I think Larian has hopelessly complicated things by suggesting that we should be able to do the latter in a D&D game with their divisive Origins concept. I find the whole concept of a Pre-Gen protagonist anathema to the central project of D&D.

I have complicated opinions about the Origin system. I agree pre-gen characters in DnD feels off, but there’s also something strangely charming about it. It makes the group feel more communal as opposed to the MC being the sole leader. And leaning into it can open up some neat role playing opportunities. Like I had my group split up while talking to the tiefling refugees, and enjoyed role playing as Gale while recruiting Wyll, or Lae’zel while chatting to the newly weds. (The Githyanki tags are quite priceless for that interaction.) But it also required quite a bit of meta gaming on my part, as I knew where to bring the group together to trigger specific cutscenes.

The Origins system if continuously iterated upon could bring a new dimension to role playing, but currently it seems to mostly just get in the way of players’ immersion. And the pay off simply isn’t worth it for the vast majority of fans. None of which even touches on the multiplayer component. Which… yeah, I understand the ire about that. I love multiplayer games but trying to be both a multiplayer and single player experience simultaneously is always going to create a design philosophy at odds with itself.

Originally Posted by Black_Elk
The mise-en-scène for the "Crashing Nautiloid" says so much about what this game is, and what it's trying to be. It's impossible for me to avoid coming back to it, even if I don't really have choice anyway. The fact that they've spent a year on the first Act, and yet the prologue remains largely unchanged (except we can spring Shadowheart from her tank I guess, and now it's night time, sorta?) it just says a lot to me. They need to try a bit harder there, if they want to win me over. Don't make me wait 3 hours to find out what you've been working on lately. The prologue should be a fucking masterpiece by now. They've only had what, like a thousand rehearsals? lol

The night scene is so bizarre, and then the cut to blazing daylight is laugh out loud hilarious. I wonder if they’re experimenting with making a day/night cycle work within the engine, or maybe segueing it into the scene you get if you camp alone the first night. Just very strange.

And yeah… I didn’t mind the prologue the first time I played it, but now it mostly just comes across as tedious. Rescuing Shadowheart actually has some major changes on how she treats you (honestly to a point where she feels less interesting to me), but breaking her free isn’t in and of itself all that engaging. Aside from firmly establishing the Githyanki artifact, I suppose, which is again placing plot over character.

Last edited by MyriadHappenings; 20/09/21 11:45 AM.

“But his mind saw nothing of all this. His mind was engaged in a warfare of the gods. His mind paced outwards over no-man's-land, over the fields of the slain, paced to the rhythm of the blood's red bugles. To be alone and evil! To be a god at bay. What was more absolute?”
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Depends ...
I mean sure, voicing can add (or ruin) a lot ... sometimes its almost unbelievable how much.

But i grown up on games like Final Fantasy (7,8,9), where never was any voicing and those characters allways seems so much deeper to me than some of today fully voiced protagonists. -_-
So i also presume its not miracle that can save everything on itself. :-/

Good voicing for companions is great ...
Good voicing for pre-set protagonist is also great ...
But voicing "player-created" character? :-/ Nah ... there is too much that can go wrong, i prefer such characters to only have some barks as they had in DA:O.


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Yeah we're definitely on the same page there I think, with pretty much everything hehe.

Lae'zel also won me over with that first jump down!

I was going to ramble a bit more about the flying meat, like how it should totally miss and zoom right past us if playing a Halfling, or get caught in our beard if we're a playing a Dwarf. Perhaps a hawk swoops into frame and catches the meat in it's talons "baccccawww!" then lands on our shoulder, so we know we're really a Ranger lol. But I think I made the general point already.

I'd love to see a more emotive performance, with a full theatrical repertoire for the PC, but since there's really nothing of that sort going on yet, it's hard to visualize what sort of PC inputs they might make use of? I think its also a bit problematic that the user can't really create their own Origin character. Or a character on par with what the Origins represent in terms of characterization.

Like sure you can make a pasty Elf rogue, but not an Astarion with all the foppish flamboyant gestures and whatnot. You could make an aggro female Gith Warrior, but not a complete performance like we see from Lae'zel. I don't just mean the locked models/voices/animations, although those are definitely locked too, unless you're trying to unpack stuff in mods. We just don't have access to the same kinds of character tools that the devs do. They're in the directors chair with the casting call sheet and the big bag of tricks. What's left for us is sort of the b reel material that wasn't quite good enough to make a unique feeling Origin companion, and feels like it was just ditched into the "Custom" trash heap.

Here's another quick example of a missed opportunity, just while I'm thinking of the Lae'zel jump down. So she says "Abomination this is your end!" to everyone, and then gives everyone the same exact same spiel afterwards about the coming combat with the imps. She doesn't take one look at my squishy Halfling Rogue like "Vlaakith! why have you forsaken me!!!" then instructs us to stay out of sight and strike once the battle is joined. You know, like a Halfling Rogue should probably operate. I mean since this is a tutorial right? She just does the same old thing for everyone. Performed the same way, cause it's all about her, and not really about the PC which is the main problem. Though I can see what you're saying. Iterated out to the Nth degree the Origin companions could probably do that something compelling, along the lines of "it wasn't me who stole the cookie the cookie jar, that was me being Montaron!" like in the meta POV. If they made a full on Origin for Misnc, where I'm in his headspace would that intrigue me? I suppose, but probably not enough to carry the game.

It's funny though, ever since the idea was floated (more as a dig) to play BG2 "but as Viconia" that idea has now implanted itself in my head lol. I keep picturing how that might look hehe. I mean cause I care about the character a little more. I guess technically they could still have Viconia as an Origin. I mean Minc needs his witch right? and Drow are pretty long lived. I could see the player controls Viconia as an origin character, and then through that vehicle they are clued into some stuff about Drow culture. Whatever that's meant to be now in the 5E new conception of Drow. Or the Religion of Shar. And like when you play as Viconia, Shar actually talks to you and shit like that. So it becomes like an instructional tool for the game universe that teaches the player about things they might not otherwise know lore-wise. This makes the game more like a passive tv or movie watching experience a bit more than I think of with a D&D crpg, but I suppose I can picture it as a means to a casual hook.

I honestly don't know what to make of the whole full performance VO MC Origin, because its just speculative going off what was there in DOS2 I suppose. They might have been able to skirt that association, but then they kinda promo'd it pretty heavy up front hehe. Maybe they do something rather different with it though, based on the feedback. One could hope

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Good voicing for companions is great ...
Good voicing for pre-set protagonist is also great ...
But voicing "player-created" character? :-/ Nah ... there is too much that can go wrong, i prefer such characters to only have some barks as they had in DA:O.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Black_Elk
I was going to ramble a bit more about the flying meat, like how it should totally miss and zoom right past us if playing a Halfling, or get caught in our beard if we're a playing a Dwarf. Perhaps a hawk swoops into frame and catches the meat in it's talons "baccccawww!" then lands on our shoulder, so we know we're really a Ranger lol. But I think I made the general point already.

I love how campy these scenarios feel. Sometimes BG3 takes itself too seriously, to its own detriment. People complain about Larian-style humor but... I dunno, I picked up BG1 for the first time and the writing overall is a lot sillier even if the color pallet is overall darker.

Originally Posted by Black_Elk
I'd love to see a more emotive performance, with a full theatrical repertoire for the PC, but since there's really nothing of that sort going on yet, it's hard to visualize what sort of PC inputs they might make use of? I think its also a bit problematic that the user can't really create their own Origin character. Or a character on par with what the Origins represent in terms of characterization.

A lot of the more emotive performances have even been cut out, likely due to complaints (such as the Arabella reaction shot I mentioned), which doesn't help matters. Which fails to get at the actual issue, I think. It's not that these reaction shots are bad, but that they don't fit every permutation currently available. And I know alignments are gone, but I can't help but think if they still existed in some form the game could use that to help track specific scripts. You're still going to have moments of dissonance but the instances would decrease by a fair margin.

Originally Posted by Black_Elk
Like sure you can make a pasty Elf rogue, but not an Astarion with all the foppish flamboyant gestures and whatnot. You could make an aggro female Gith Warrior, but not a complete performance like we see from Lae'zel. I don't just mean the locked models/voices/animations, although those are definitely locked too, unless you're trying to unpack stuff in mods. We just don't have access to the same kinds of character tools that the devs do. They're in the directors chair with the casting call sheet and the big bag of tricks. What's left for us is sort of the b reel material that wasn't quite good enough to make a unique feeling Origin companion, and feels like it was just ditched into the "Custom" trash heap.

This is one of those scenarios where it feels like the devs are damned if they do, damned if they don't. Because the more you define a background for Tav, the more you take away from what the player might have in mind as a background. You ultimately can't cover every possible permutation and at some point have to make a concession one way or another. I've already seen some complaints that the more 'common' races currently available have the Baldurian tag, and that's a fairly broad strokes tag that can mean a lot of different things.

For me, it does help that I tended to play drow in most of my run throughs. Drow have a lot of unique reactions and dialogue that help separate them from the Origin characters. I never really felt like my character was lacking a specific niche comparatively. And there's something to be said for roleplaying a more 'normal' character to balance out the surrounding melodrama, lol.

The writers are aware of this issue, though, and have stated they want to try and find ways to circumvent it. Whether or not they'll succeed is another matter entirely.

Originally Posted by Black_Elk
Though I can see what you're saying. Iterated out to the Nth degree the Origin companions could probably do that something compelling, along the lines of "it wasn't me who stole the cookie the cookie jar, that was me being Montaron!" like in the meta POV. If they made a full on Origin for Misnc, where I'm in his headspace would that intrigue me? I suppose, but probably not enough to carry the game.

The other potential area that the Origin system can shine is if you want to roleplay a character who isn't necessarily the de facto leader. It's not something I've tested yet, but I do want to try a run through where my Tav mostly lets other characters make major decisions while she just hangs out in the background and acts as the team social butterfly. (I'd most want to attempt this as a bard, I think.)

As for Minsc... he just seems like such an odd choice for an Origin. As far as I can tell (I still haven't finished BG1 lol), he's intentionally written to be a flat character, and the Origin characters are all written with very specific arcs in mind. I'm not sure what to make of that decision.

Originally Posted by Black_Elk
I could see the player controls Viconia as an origin character, and then through that vehicle they are clued into some stuff about Drow culture. Whatever that's meant to be now in the 5E new conception of Drow. Or the Religion of Shar. And like when you play as Viconia, Shar actually talks to you and shit like that. So it becomes like an instructional tool for the game universe that teaches the player about things they might not otherwise know lore-wise. This makes the game more like a passive tv or movie watching experience a bit more than I think of with a D&D crpg, but I suppose I can picture it as a means to a casual hook.

BG3 already sort of does this with both the drow character and Shadowheart (for example, if you select Shadowheart when interacting with a certain mural in the grove, she'll give you information about Shar you never would've received otherwise). As for Viconia, my understanding is that she dies at the end of BG2 if you change her alignment, although if they could figure out a way to bring back Minsc, they could probably figure out a way to bring back Viconia.


“But his mind saw nothing of all this. His mind was engaged in a warfare of the gods. His mind paced outwards over no-man's-land, over the fields of the slain, paced to the rhythm of the blood's red bugles. To be alone and evil! To be a god at bay. What was more absolute?”
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Hehe thanks. I was just trying to single out one of the stupider sequences from the opener, to highlight how silly it is. But now I'll probably be slightly disappointed when I don't see any meat to the face updates in patch 6 lol.

I also really don't get the choice of Minsc either. He was always dumber than a bag of hammers. I mean I guess they needed a touchstone, but it's basically doing BG fan service at the level of the lowest common denominator. Like Minsc is just recognizable enough such that an audience who never actually played BG1/2 (but maybe looked it up once on youtube) could still wax nostalgic about how cool it was "that Minsc is back!" Clearly evidence that Larian really knows what they're doing and fully understands the milieu they're operating within heheh. If Minsc showed up in Act 2 as a petrified Statue, but then a crazed Gnome jumped down from the rafters screaming "Tiax rules all! You fools!" just smashing Minsc and all our expectations into a thousand fucking pieces, I'd probably give Larian the gold star. But I know that's not gonna be the drill here lol.

As for Viconia, all the Romance endings in BG2 were mutually exclusive, so I think her death there could be explained away as "not my party." Trying to revive Khalid or Dynaheir would be more problematic, but they could have done Viconia if they wanted. Not that they should. Even though she'd probably have been a more compelling choice than Minsc. I fully expect we'll run into some actual space hamsters in BG3 though, cause of course that'd be where they take it. I mean Tiax yelling "Taste it!" while he cooks Origins for breakfast is probably a bit too much to expect, even for Larian's sense of camp. Alas

Despite what I said about the flying meat stuff, I still think the most expedient approach would be to just NOT show us our MC performing at all. If we can't control the performance in any way, then better not to have one. Maintain the first person POV and let the NPCs have the performance. I think the silent protagonist is only jarring, when they try to do the shot counter shot stuff all over the place, like you said. Of course it feels goofy in that case. Sure I can imagine funny ways to use super zoom or slow mo in a game like this, if they wanted to lean into the language of pop cinema parody and give us some inputs there, but I just don't see them pulling it off in any way that isn't pure hambone comedy. Not exactly the high water mark of a BG legacy for me. Though I agree, BG1 had the inside joke thing pretty dialed for its time.

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Originally Posted by MyriadHappenings
This is one of those scenarios where it feels like the devs are damned if they do, damned if they don't. Because the more you define a background for Tav, the more you take away from what the player might have in mind as a background. You ultimately can't cover every possible permutation and at some point have to make a concession one way or another. I've already seen some complaints that the more 'common' races currently available have the Baldurian tag, and that's a fairly broad strokes tag that can mean a lot of different things.

For me, it does help that I tended to play drow in most of my run throughs. Drow have a lot of unique reactions and dialogue that help separate them from the Origin characters. I never really felt like my character was lacking a specific niche comparatively. And there's something to be said for roleplaying a more 'normal' character to balance out the surrounding melodrama, lol.

The writers are aware of this issue, though, and have stated they want to try and find ways to circumvent it. Whether or not they'll succeed is another matter entirely.

I said this in another thread but I’d love if they’d implement some kind of personal quest in character creation, similar to what Guild Wars 2 did. It could be something as simple as “Why were you in Baldur’s Gate” with a few options like:
* I was searching for the parents I never met
* I was looking for a powerful artifact
* I was seeking revenge
* I was running from the law
* I was visiting a friend

I think they could make these general enough that they fit most character types. Think about how much it would add at camp if the companions actually asked you about your quest/what you were doing when you were abducted, and you could divulge as little or as much as you want. And it would be so exciting if a random NPC mentioned “I met your father once” and gave you a clue to further your personal quest. Maybe you even start the game with some kind of letter in your inventory that provides your first clue.

Of course each quest would need at least 4 outcomes/paths in case you are playing co-op and everyone picks the same one. So for instance in one scenario, it’s a happy reunion with your parents, in another you find out they’re dead, in a third they are evil and maybe worshipping the Absolute, and in a fourth they are some kind of royalty or powerful beings.

Essentially it would just require some additional NPC dialogue and maybe one or two exclusive battles, but would add a lot of flavor to the PC and make them feel more like real characters.

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I really prefer that my character be a blank slate, someone I get to know in the course of the campaign. I don't want to choose a personal quest before knowing where the story is going. My PC develops their own flavor and reality as they progress through the game, making their own pattern of choices.

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I want Tiax as an origin character, so that I too can rule all.

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Originally Posted by sublimeclown
*snip
They may as well just force us to play semi premade characters in the style of Mass effect and maybe the Witcher if they go this route. No thanks, this is DnD. It works for other games but not for this. Have optional character templates since apparently so many people have a hard time with creating characters, but that should be as far as it goes.

Bringing this somewhat back on topic, they would probably waste even more money on voice acting and we would be stuck with a voiced protagonist since we would only be "allowed" to pick certain paths for our characters. Having a probably incorrect voice, plus a given story for the protagonist would make it even more immersion breaking for me and many others who would like to rp "our" characters. Add in the ridiculous zoomed in cut scenes with a facial expression that doesn't belong, and now you are playing entirely someone not of your creation and possibly someone you don't want to play at all.

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Originally Posted by Imryll
I really prefer that my character be a blank slate, someone I get to know in the course of the campaign. I don't want to choose a personal quest before knowing where the story is going. My PC develops their own flavor and reality as they progress through the game, making their own pattern of choices.

Interesting point. Ok then, what if it wasn’t at character creation then but instead later during one of the camp scenes, where one of the companions asked, “What were you doing when you got abducted?” And you could choose one of the pre-written answers or tell them to mind their own business.

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What were you doing when you got abducted?


"I heard folks screaming and stepped outside to see what was happening."

" I was walking home from work."

"I was in the market debating whether to buy spinach or arugula for dinner."

"I was on my way to meet friends at the [name of inn or other Baldurian landmark]."


Later in the game, once I have a better sense of who my character is, I'd be open to opportunities to be more communicative about who she is, but would still be wary of associating a quest with my response. I actually thought Larian handled such self-disclosures rather well in DOS 2 and would expect the same in BG3. I particularly enjoyed the conversation with Ifan where the two of you figured out your Lone Wolf name.

I really don't want to have to choose between fitting my character into one of a limited number of boxes and telling my companions to mind their own business, anymore than I want to hear her lines spoken in a voice that doesn't suit her. A voiced PC can be great in a game where you play a (largely) pre-determined character, but not in a game that offers the number of races, classes, and alignments I'd expect in BG 3.

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I personally dislike the narrator's voice.

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For me, voicing is extremely important. Intonation clearly gives off subtler aspects of meaning, something that might be very difficult to convey in plain text alone (or would make said text look silly / goofy). It's a separate dimension, pretty much. Even though English isn't my native language, I always turn subtitles on, but voice is important regardless.
My favourite example in this case are earliest NWN2 OC companions: Khelgar and Neeshka. An absolutely spot-on voicing that gives their characters so much life and realism!
Of course, a bad / off voice ruins a lot, too. Because of that, Astarion for example reeks of fakery for me. I just can't take him seriously!

Voiced protagonists... well, it's a complex topic. In Dark Souls, playing a mute was tolerable, because there aren't that many dialogs in the game, and it's not dialog-centric. On the other hand, in KOAR a silent MC starts feeling weird after a while. Especially considering a superb voice work done with most of NPCs. In DA2 / DA:I, I really liked the voiced MC; what I didn't like was a very slim selection of voice choices during the character's creation. But that's understandable, that would be a lot of extra work for devs.

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