Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Dec 2017
F
enthusiast
OP Offline
enthusiast
F
Joined: Dec 2017
All of this is gone now, I never mentioned it here or on Steam, because I didn't want to come across as a troll or make anyone feel bad.

But since it doesn't apply anymore, here is what I REALLY thought a year ago.

Girlfriend and I were thinking, back in October '20, that Larian bite off more than they could chew, after we saw the first EA version - especially this whole "far too much dependence on dice rolls in dialogues" was something we thought would eventually be so detrimental to the experience of playing this game that people would hate it - because both of us hated that we had absolutely no - ZERO - player agency back then.

I'm so happy that this changed - weighted dice + abilities to increase the dice roll value gave us the agency we desired.

So why did we think that this could not be pulled off?

Because of different expectations of table top vs. digital CRPG players. Tabletop players expect a developing story which grows with each dice roll success or failure - and for tabletop players failed rolls can actually mean fun and new avenues.

For us computer oriented RPG'ers it's almost entirely about that agency we were missing.

To be honest, if it wasn't for weighted dice and skills to improve the roll outcome, both of us would have abandoned the game and never looked back, because for us non-tabletop-players just thinking about a game in the same size ballpark as D:OS2 with permanent dice roll frustration and no active way to shape our path and actually act upon our decisions would have amounted to masochism.


Larian, please improve QoL / UX.

And give us Halsin as companion, please.
Joined: Sep 2021
Location: Ukraine
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
Joined: Sep 2021
Location: Ukraine
As a tabletop player, I confirm that failing rolls is just as fun as passing them for me (and playing no-reload is the most fun way to play). Dicerolls in dialogues are not new to BG3 though, Neverwinter Nights series also had them. And it's good that they made weighted dice optional, I'd hate to have this turned on in my game.

Joined: Mar 2020
Location: Belfast
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
Location: Belfast
Originally Posted by Firesong
I'm so happy that this changed - weighted dice + abilities to increase the dice roll value gave us the agency we desired.
I am still not sure how I feel about the dices, as at this point it is pretty much impossible to loose a dice roll - in unlikely case you won't boost through the required AC with the use of modifiers, there are plenty of rerolls available. As such skill check system is meaningless and could as well not exist, unless some players intentionally fail checks to see what happens. Also work put into "failstates" might as well be wasted if it is so difficult to fail (and most of us won't want to fail intentionally - because it never feels as good as winning).

I assume skill check values shall be raised up, as to avoid having 100% passability. And if that happens, and while it is far better to be able to apply boosts in visible and impactful way, will it feel much different?

As it is I still think flat skill checks (like in New Vegas) make most sense in cRPGs as:
1) they get rid of RNG bullcrap
2) enforce different path availability during different playthroughs.

Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
Oh it is possible to loose a dice roll ... it is soooo possible so its not even nice. laugh


Short coment on my English. smile

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
Joined: Oct 2020
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by Firesong
I'm so happy that this changed - weighted dice + abilities to increase the dice roll value gave us the agency we desired.
I am still not sure how I feel about the dices, as at this point it is pretty much impossible to loose a dice roll - in unlikely case you won't boost through the required AC with the use of modifiers, there are plenty of rerolls available. As such skill check system is meaningless and could as well not exist, unless some players intentionally fail checks to see what happens. Also work put into "failstates" might as well be wasted if it is so difficult to fail (and most of us won't want to fail intentionally - because it never feels as good as winning).

I assume skill check values shall be raised up, as to avoid having 100% passability. And if that happens, and while it is far better to be able to apply boosts in visible and impactful way, will it feel much different?

As it is I still think flat skill checks (like in New Vegas) make most sense in cRPGs as:
1) they get rid of RNG bullcrap
2) enforce different path availability during different playthroughs.

What? I spent 20 minutes reloading the game trying to not fail the skill check against the Mind Flayer that auto-kills you if you fail, and another 20 trying to not fail the 2-3 checks against the tadpole from the dead dwarf that lets it get away the last time I played.

How the hell are you saying it's not possible to fail them?

Joined: Mar 2020
Location: Belfast
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
Location: Belfast
Originally Posted by Nightshade3226
How the hell are you saying it's not possible to fail them?
*Shrug*

Did two playthroughs once with weighted dice one without. Failed a total of one time and had inspirations to make up for it. Free cantrip is already a big help, and later you get easy access to advantage for every roll that is remotely not in your favour.

Maybe I should just go to Vegas for a weekend or two. Never had much issues with BG3 rolls, and after recent patch it seems to be overwhelmingly stacked in my favour majority of time.

Eitherway, Larian will have best data as to how well current checks are balanced. I suppose if I got lucky, or failed more then I recall then it might work fairly well. It also could be that I don't attempt things outside of what my character would do (and therefore is already likely to succeed at). In my first playthrough, for example I didn't initiate conversation with the mindflayer, as I was playing as Gith.

Last edited by Wormerine; 03/10/21 02:24 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
D
member
Offline
member
D
Joined: Oct 2020
I certainly failed MANY rolls before p5, but p5 surely makes it a lot more convenient to make sure you are buffed as much as you need. I almost don't hate the dialogue dice rolls anymore...

Joined: Jul 2019
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Jul 2019
I'd agree with the "far more than they can chew" part. It seems to me that Larian is kinda lost now, they tried to adapt their divinity engine for d20 rolls and aimed for a middle of the road approach between DOS and D&D, and this didn't please neither party and lead to controversy.

Solasta's launch was definitely another hit, given that in interviews Larian said that tabletop features did not translate well into video game and that's why there were so many features missing. Pretty much all those features are present in Solasta however, and not only they work, but the gameplay is MUCH better than BG3's.

Now they are in a crossroad, they can't go back with the engine because there was too much time invested, and perphaps the engine does not allow for some features to be implemented, which makes me think that the gameplay is already compromised and will lead to a ton of criticism upon release.

Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Nightshade3226
Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by Firesong
I'm so happy that this changed - weighted dice + abilities to increase the dice roll value gave us the agency we desired.
I am still not sure how I feel about the dices, as at this point it is pretty much impossible to loose a dice roll - in unlikely case you won't boost through the required AC with the use of modifiers, there are plenty of rerolls available. As such skill check system is meaningless and could as well not exist, unless some players intentionally fail checks to see what happens. Also work put into "failstates" might as well be wasted if it is so difficult to fail (and most of us won't want to fail intentionally - because it never feels as good as winning).

I assume skill check values shall be raised up, as to avoid having 100% passability. And if that happens, and while it is far better to be able to apply boosts in visible and impactful way, will it feel much different?

As it is I still think flat skill checks (like in New Vegas) make most sense in cRPGs as:
1) they get rid of RNG bullcrap
2) enforce different path availability during different playthroughs.

What? I spent 20 minutes reloading the game trying to not fail the skill check against the Mind Flayer that auto-kills you if you fail, and another 20 trying to not fail the 2-3 checks against the tadpole from the dead dwarf that lets it get away the last time I played.

How the hell are you saying it's not possible to fail them?
I think most of us just avoid that flayer check by shooting it with bow. The dwarf tadpole one is the only hard check that is forced on you in the game at the moment imo, if you go charisma. So long as you use your pop-up abilities and gather Inspiration Points. Compare that to the early patches where even spec'd for charisma you were going to fail a fair few of you checks since there was no choice to use abilities in the dice-roller and inspiration points were more scarce.

Last edited by alice_ashpool; 04/10/21 09:59 AM.
Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
I've never failed the Mind Flayer check except once. That one time I was literally reloading and reloading the scene because I wanted to see what happened if I failed.


Optimistically Apocalyptic
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Italy
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Italy
You can pass that Mindflayer encounter in a half dozen ways that don't even require a "dice roll" to begin with.
Attacking it in melee (which is a 100% chance and requires 3 damage, not exactly challenging), ranged, picking dialogue options that make you "win" without rolling a skill check, etc.
I was always puzzled when I read people complaining that they were "forced to kill the fishermen if they failed the roll". No, you weren't..?


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5