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So I had Lae'zel and Shadowheart taking turns pummeling one of the goons outside the ruined temple in melee.

And then he uses the new Rush Attack ability to dart away from both of them, without any attacks of opportunity, to go for.... Gale! And pushes Gale off the ledge and kills him instantly out of nowhere.

Here I thought the point of tactical combat is to control the battlefield by engaging enemies to protect your squishy party members. That's why we have "threatened" and "attack of opportunity". So why do we now have a teleport ability as a basic weapon ability that's available to everyone, again? We just got rid of the Bonus Action Disengage for everyone...

Why are Larian's house rule abilities always actively working on making tactical combat less tactical?

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It’s just one per short rest though? Sure, it could turn the tide of battle but it’s not crazy OP



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Originally Posted by LukasPrism
It’s just one per short rest though? Sure, it could turn the tide of battle but it’s not crazy OP
Well it does mean enemies can use it in every fight and your Wizards are never safe because they are priority targets for everyone.

It's super annoying from a tactical combat point of view when you try to play properly and hold down enemies so they can't get to your mages. And then Larian just casually gives everyone another homebrew ability that completely ignores sensible tactical play and looks Supersayian.

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It have quite close range and you cant use it if someone is in the way ...
Your casters should be safe as long as they keep their distance or keep someone in their enemies line of sight.

Tactic should be harder that just put armoted guy in front and unleash Havoc.


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I still have to go deeper in the game to really think about those new actions but my firsts conclusion are the same... The charge :
- allow you/your ennemies to move further. It does not consume any speed.
- allow you
/your ennemies to disengage + attack at the same time.

Which is really bad.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 15/10/21 04:51 PM.
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Originally Posted by 1varangian
Well it does mean enemies can use it in every fight
Still need to test it myself. Use it once in tutorial, but changed weapons afterward.

Not so horrible:
1) one per fight
2) not that many enemies should have it, as it's weapon specific

3) Question: do you need a direct line of sight to charge (like in Gears Tactics)? If so spellcasters still could be protected with right positioning.

Still, a sheer mobility of the skill (wasn't it bonus action as well?) is insane. Quite shocking as well, as other weapon skills that I have used so far have been rather tame in comparioson.

EDIT: Just swapped weapons, and tried it again during the comat encounter before Druid's Grove. I am not clear on how it works. UI wise it looks exactly like RUSH from D:OS2. On the furthers goblin it said "target obscured" which could indicate that direct line of sight was needed. However, I was able to attack goblin which was potentially blocking him, though to get to him I was able to "teleport" through worg. Whenever that was worg not registering properly, or something else was going on, I am not sure.

Last edited by Wormerine; 15/10/21 04:11 PM.
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Worg is one of "big creatures" ...
They kinda have little problems with hitbox ... it was talked about back in Patch 4 (i think?) ... meaning that game conciders the creature lot smaller than it actualy is ... therefore, unless you rushed stright through its middle ... its possible that game simply seen your line of attack coming around Worg "hitbox" while its texture was bigger, and you appeared to rush through it.


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
It have quite close range and you cant use it if someone is in the way ...
Your casters should be safe as long as they keep their distance or keep someone in their enemies line of sight.

Tactic should be harder that just put armoted guy in front and unleash Havoc.
The point is we just finally got rid of free Disengage, and now it's back again.

5e has rules for being Threatened for a reason and Larian are doing their hardest to pull the rug from under those rules.

Those kind of abilities can and should exist, but you can't put them in mundane weapons. Fighters can take 2 levels of Rogue to get Cunning Action for Bonus Disengage. Only now they don't need to because they can just equip a sword. Rogue's unique skills, in this case Disengage+Attack on the same turn, are being put into a weapon for anyone to use. And tanks can't do their job again because everyone needs to be ultra mobile. It's dumb.

Last edited by 1varangian; 15/10/21 04:52 PM.
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Originally Posted by Wormerine
3) Question: do you need a direct line of sight to charge (like in Gears Tactics)? If so spellcasters still could be protected with right positioning.
I think the way needs to be clear, but I'd rather not have to consider nonsensical abilities like that when positioning characters. You can shoot arrows and fire bolts through your team mates, why should positioning suddenly matter with defending yourself from Rush Attack from an engaged target.

If you Rush off when two people are attacking you in melee, you should receive two attacks of opportunity, period. It's ridiculous that holding a sword turns you into Flash.

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I too am not a fan of the homebrew martial skills. There are some big problems with them currently:


1. Some of them grant free disengage / teleportation (Rush, Mobile Shot).
This was already removed once before and I don't understand why it's back. These make Cunning Action from Rogue even less valuable.

2. Some of them are hard crowd control (Heartstopper, Backbreaker).
Why would I ever use a melee weapon that doesn't have these? They're so much better than the others.

3. They introduce too many new homebrew status effects (Open Wounds, Bleeding, Dazed, Off Balance, Cripple, Weakening Strike, Weak Grip, Chest Trauma, and more!)
You have doubled the amount of status conditions in 5e! You can't even tell what these do based on their names, it's a tremendous amount of bloat.

Last edited by polliwagwhirl; 15/10/21 06:17 PM.
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Haven't used the new techniques too much yet, but I agree that the lunge attack should provoke attacks of opportunity and should use movement. Maybe that was an oversight that will be corrected in a hotfix or new patch?

Also, I definitely appreciate giving melee characters more options, but kinda wonder if it makes Battle Master Fighters less appealing. The only argument I have against that is the additional restrictions on the new techniques (once per short rest and weapon specific).

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All weapon actions should involve a tradeoff. This would allow martial characters more options, especially at lower levels, while also not stepping on the toes of class/race abilities.

Rush should allow you to move double your remaining movement (costing it in the process) and attack, but all AoOs you provoke are made at advantage against you. And obviously you can only rush in a straight line.
Weakening Strike should take a -5 penalty to hit (or disadvantage), and a successful hit does damage and the target make their next attack at disadvantage.
Crippling Strike should take a -5 penalty to hit, and if hit the target should be allowed a Con ST to move at half speed instead of 0.
(similar and so on for Backbreaker, Flourish, and other weapon actions that deal damage and impose a status effect)

Brace seems balanced-ish: you lose your movement speed (can you move and then brace? If so, it's unbalanced.) to get a bonus to damage. However, this steps on the toes of rogue's "Steady Aim" feature, so it should either also cost a bonus action or be made with a -5 penalty to hit for non-rogues.

Heartstopper should not exist. Don't mess with the action economy Larian. 1 action is not equivalent to 1, 2, or even 3 DOS-action-points. If they really want heartstopper, then it should be made with at disadvantage, deal no damage, and the enemy ALSO gets a Con ST to ignore the effect).

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
All weapon actions should involve a tradeoff. This would allow martial characters more options, especially at lower levels, while also not stepping on the toes of class/race abilities.

Rush should allow you to move double your remaining movement (costing it in the process) and attack, but all AoOs you provoke are made at advantage against you. And obviously you can only rush in a straight line.
Weakening Strike should take a -5 penalty to hit (or disadvantage), and a successful hit does damage and the target make their next attack at disadvantage.
Crippling Strike should take a -5 penalty to hit, and if hit the target should be allowed a Con ST to move at half speed instead of 0.
(similar and so on for Backbreaker, Flourish, and other weapon actions that deal damage and impose a status effect)

Brace seems balanced-ish: you lose your movement speed (can you move and then brace? If so, it's unbalanced.) to get a bonus to damage. However, this steps on the toes of rogue's "Steady Aim" feature, so it should either also cost a bonus action or be made with a -5 penalty to hit for non-rogues.

Heartstopper should not exist. Don't mess with the action economy Larian. 1 action is not equivalent to 1, 2, or even 3 DOS-action-points. If they really want heartstopper, then it should be made with at disadvantage, deal no damage, and the enemy ALSO gets a Con ST to ignore the effect).

-5 it is a bit too much, it can make it too unprofitable to use it

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Originally Posted by Rhobar121
-5 it is a bit too much, it can make it too unprofitable to use it
I'm flexible on the exact amount. Disadvantage, -5, -4, -3, whatever. The point is that the weapon abilities should add flexibility without increasing direct power. A simple weapon you pick up shouldn't be the equivalent of (or more powerful than) a class ability or feat.

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Originally Posted by polliwagwhirl
2. Some of them are hard crowd control (Heartstopper, Backbreaker).
Why would I ever use a melee weapon that doesn't have these? They're so much better than the others.
I'm starting to have an issue with abilities and effects that sound or seem powerful, even lethal, but have a very minor mechanical effect.

Heartstopper? Sounds like a high level ability that's a well guarded secret in some monastic order. Not something every level 1 soldier is doing all the time just because they have a hammer.

Backbreaker is just a free shove prone. Shoving prone should already be a part of Shove Action, which should be available whenever I need it. It's basic. Why can I only attempt to prone someone once per short rest and only if I have a weapon that gives me Backbreaker?

Mobile shot is something that should be a character ability or a feat rather than attached to a bow. How does a Legolas style running shot match a brutish 8 Dex 20 Str Full Plate Fighter who just equipped a Bow because there was nothing close enough to smash?

And of course my old favourite: being drenched in acid gives you -2 AC for a few seconds, after which your armor and you(!) apparently regenerate.

I think they're just making a big mess trying to force these myriad "video game must have" mechanics into D&D. WotC, please intervene.

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Originally Posted by 1varangian
Backbreaker is just a free shove prone. Shoving prone should already be a part of Shove Action, which should be available whenever I need it. It's basic. Why can I only attempt to prone someone once per short rest and only if I have a weapon that gives me Backbreaker?
Does Backbreaker also deal damage as part of an attack action? Or is it a bonus action weapon ability that only knocks prone?

Originally Posted by 1varangian
And of course my old favourite: being drenched in acid gives you -2 AC for a few seconds, after which your armor and you(!) apparently regenerate.
This makes a bit more sense if you think of it as a character realizing their boots are melting and trying to get out of the puddle, focusing on that and thus temporarily reducing their ability to dodge attacks (effective Dex penalty for purposes of AC). In Pathfinder they'd be flat-footed.

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Originally Posted by polliwagwhirl
I too am not a fan of the homebrew martial skills. There are some big problems with them currently:

1. Some of them grant free disengage / teleportation (Rush, Mobile Shot).
This was already removed once before and I don't understand why it's back. These make Cunning Action from Rogue even less valuable.

2. Some of them are hard crowd control (Heartstopper, Backbreaker).
Why would I ever use a melee weapon that doesn't have these? They're so much better than the others.

3. They introduce too many new homebrew status effects (Open Wounds, Bleeding, Dazed, Off Balance, Cripple, Weakening Strike, Weak Grip, Chest Trauma, and more!)
You have doubled the amount of status conditions in 5e! You can't even tell what these do based on their names, it's a tremendous amount of bloat.

The third point also worries me a lot.
All those new status increased A LOT the complexity of a game that is already very complex to learn, especially for newcomers.

I find VERY COOL that some of these actions simulate things you could do in a tabletop session but it should only stick to that.
- I charge and attack him
- I use the pommel of my weapon, trying to stunned him
- I try to knock him down with my staff
- I'm foccused on his hands to make him drop his weapons, on his eyes to make him blind, on his feet to reduce his speed and so on...

I haven't try everything yet but first impressions :
- There should NOT have new conditions. We can easily imagine tons of actions with DnD's conditions or mechanics (reduce the speed) and eventually BG3's mechanic (in exemple drop weapons)
- It should be better balanced. In exemple the charge should definitely use your movement and not allow you to disengage. You can also charge through ennemies which looks really wierd.
- None of these weapons actions should be bonus actions. It should deserve it"s own thread but we DON'T need bonus actions at each turn, which is what everyone (AI included) is doing to optimize our turns - hello shove to disengage, something the AI teach me to do...
- Some things should just dissapear : you can try to stun someone with a blow to the head... You cannot try to make someone wearing an armor bleed using a special attack while using your sword... Are you going to bleed if you're slashed with a sword but not if you're pierced with it ?
- It shouldn't be so much different for all weapons. Honnestly I'd rather have the charge for all weapons + 1 specific attack per weapon than a whole bunch of attacks for every weapons. A bit more complexity and variety is absolutely fine but it's way too much imo.
- The special attacks were better where they were before on the UI. Adding them to the hotbar mess does not help at all. If we're definitely going with weapons special attacks they require a specific place OR specific locked slots on the hotbar.
- We should be able to use them whenever we want. If it's well balanced you don't need to make them "one per rest".

Last edited by Maximuuus; 15/10/21 09:17 PM.
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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by 1varangian
Backbreaker is just a free shove prone. Shoving prone should already be a part of Shove Action, which should be available whenever I need it. It's basic. Why can I only attempt to prone someone once per short rest and only if I have a weapon that gives me Backbreaker?
Does Backbreaker also deal damage as part of an attack action? Or is it a bonus action weapon ability that only knocks prone?

Originally Posted by 1varangian
And of course my old favourite: being drenched in acid gives you -2 AC for a few seconds, after which your armor and you(!) apparently regenerate.
This makes a bit more sense if you think of it as a character realizing their boots are melting and trying to get out of the puddle, focusing on that and thus temporarily reducing their ability to dodge attacks (effective Dex penalty for purposes of AC). In Pathfinder they'd be flat-footed.
Backbreaker deals damage but my point was that there's too much overlap and it's getting messy with all these new homebrew weapon abilities. They haven't even included all the 5e combat moves but we are being showered with homebrew abilities already. We didn't need Backbreaker, we needed Shove to include Shove Prone. Battlemaster already gets Trip Attack which does the same thing, which is also available from feats. Furthermore, Backbreaker sounds like an upgraded version of Trip Attack, but it's actually the other way around. It's just getting messy. I'm not convinced we needed 3 abilities per weapon in the first place.

As for pools of acid and poison everywhere.. it's not really a thing in Faerun. Previous D&D CRPG's have been very successful without gamey nonsensical additions like these. I wish Larian could just reel it back a bit.

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Once again Larian is trying their best to insert MoRe fUn while absolutely disregarding the system they are tinkering with. It becomes even annoying that the community must be on constant alert to prevent them from ruining their game.

If you want to test some variations for the way melee combat works, make it considering the system it has its roots in. The system which is very strict on granting new bonuses and feats, which is the part of its appeal.

Making combat more arcade-y isn’t what I consider fun.


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Originally Posted by 1varangian
Backbreaker deals damage but my point was that there's too much overlap and it's getting messy with all these new homebrew weapon abilities. They haven't even included all the 5e combat moves but we are being showered with homebrew abilities already. We didn't need Backbreaker, we needed Shove to include Shove Prone. Battlemaster already gets Trip Attack which does the same thing, which is also available from feats. Furthermore, Backbreaker sounds like an upgraded version of Trip Attack, but it's actually the other way around. It's just getting messy. I'm not convinced we needed 3 abilities per weapon in the first place.

As for pools of acid and poison everywhere.. it's not really a thing in Faerun. Previous D&D CRPG's have been very successful without gamey nonsensical additions like these. I wish Larian could just reel it back a bit.
I hear you. Especially your point about how overwhelmingly powerful these abilities sound compared to their actual effects. The names of these abilities and their status effects do need to be changed. And to be clear I don't like the pools of acid either, but I do like their mechanical effect. Like, I'd be in favor of a "Sunder" weapon attack, made at a penalty but deals damage and gives -2 AC to the enemy for a turn.

I'm just personally in favor of more combat maneuvers being added to the game, as they're sorely missing in 5e. Fighters should have more options - again, there's a reason many 5e players want all fighters to have battlemaster abilities. These abilities just need an appropriate penalty so that they don't overshadow official class abilities (a reoccurring problem for Larian).

Shove prone should be added to BG3. Agreed.
Battlemaster's "Trip Attack" should feel like a powerful class ability - dealing normal damage + superiority damage + trip attempt. Agreed.
But attacking someone's legs with a weapon is a reasonable thing to do in combat and shouldn't be limited to just Battlemasters. Battlemasters should just be so much better at it and able to do it with any weapon. So, for balance, allow certain weapons to trip attack (also dealing weapon damage) at a -X or disadvantage penalty. This way no toes are stepped on, and fighters have more options.

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