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Kalenne Offline OP
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Hello !
First of all, please excuse my grammar as i'm not a native english speaker

So.
I've been playing through this wonderful alpha for quite a while now, and i would like to suggest an addition to the game.

You see, i'm a huge fan of DnD5, but i still think the racial ability boost system severely limits the combination of Races + Class
Most races have determined +2 and +1 ability boosts, with the notable exception of humans of course who have +1 everywhere : And to me, it's quite sad that we have to accept to play a very clearly sub optimal build to play a non conventional X Race paired with Y Class. For example, if i want to make a Wizard drow, i'll have to play with lower spell DC, lower attack on spells and various other penalties due to Drows not having an INT bonus

That said, i also understand that these limitations are a part of DnD5 origin design and BG3 does a really great job at keeping things as close as possible from the base game
In an attempt to make an improvement while keeping "everyone happy", i would like to present you my idea (that i didn't find on the forum already despite my researchs) :


As an optional feature (kinda like an "easy mode"), players could get a free +1 ability boost they could apply to any ability score, except one that already benefit from a racial ability boost.
For exemple, a Halfling already have a +2 to DEX and a +1 to CHA so he could apply this boost to any of the four left ability scores
In the case of humans, this ability boost could be converted into a free skill mastery, because they already have ability boosts to every stats

This could greatly improve the viability of a lot of unique concepts players might have without forcing them to make "bad" build decisions.


I know some players already accept the penalty implied with playing an "off-meta" build because their appreciation of their character overshadows the mathematical aspect of the game, but i think there is a category of player who enjoy when the game doesn't push you in another direction if the option is avaible.

Thanks for reading, i hope my idea wasn't already somewhere on the board i couldn't see =')

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They honestly should just implement custom lineage from Tasha's if they want that. It allows you to customize the stats. I don't think it is actually a huge problem normally because there are a lot of 5e races to choose from (40 by my current count of all official published material including UA). However, the game's race selection is rather limited at the moment and I don't see them adding too many more.

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+1, but the D&D purists will disagree and use words like "homebrew".

However, not having to rely on certain races for classes would be great.


Larian, please improve QoL / UX.

And give us Halsin as companion, please.
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Originally Posted by Firesong
However, not having to rely on certain races for classes would be great.
You'll be delighted to hear that this is 5e. You can pick any class as any race! Have fun.

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Originally Posted by Fisher
Originally Posted by Firesong
However, not having to rely on certain races for classes would be great.
You'll be delighted to hear that this is 5e. You can pick any class as any race! Have fun.

Results in weak, suboptimal builds.


Larian, please improve QoL / UX.

And give us Halsin as companion, please.
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Originally Posted by webmaster94
They honestly should just implement custom lineage from Tasha's if they want that. It allows you to customize the stats. I don't think it is actually a huge problem normally because there are a lot of 5e races to choose from (40 by my current count of all official published material including UA). However, the game's race selection is rather limited at the moment and I don't see them adding too many more.
I would love to see an update that includes Tasha's handling of the races, just to broaden what's available without seeming 'suboptimal.' But I can also understand why there's a relatively small number of races in the game - There's enough different voiced lines and dialogue options referring character races that adding too many would add a lot of extra work - Though I'd really like to see at least Dragonborn show up at some point.

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Originally Posted by Firesong
Results in weak, suboptimal builds.

No it doesn't.

I don't think I've ever played a class/race combo where the strong ability score has aligned with the key class ability score, and I've played with plenty of players who, conversely, do put a lot of stock in that... and I have never felt weak, sub-optimal or less functionally effective than other characters. By 4th level, the racial ability bonuses even out more or less, and everyone can get to their twenty easily enough regardless of their choice of race, if that's what they want to do. 5e's bounded scores makes sure that you aren't handicapped by an unusual class-race combo unless you want to be; that's one part of what it's designed to assist with, and it does so well.

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Originally Posted by webmaster94
They honestly should just implement custom lineage from Tasha's if they want that. It allows you to customize the stats. I don't think it is actually a huge problem normally because there are a lot of 5e races to choose from (40 by my current count of all official published material including UA). However, the game's race selection is rather limited at the moment and I don't see them adding too many more.
Tasha's custom lineage is a better solution than the +1 homebrew idea in my opinion, because it keeps the bonuses the same while allowing you more flexibility in where they go. This solves the "suboptimal" race/class combo issue without the power creep. But hey, you can always Mod to get whatever stats you want anyway haha.

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Originally Posted by Niara
Originally Posted by Firesong
Results in weak, suboptimal builds.

No it doesn't.

I don't think I've ever played a class/race combo where the strong ability score has aligned with the key class ability score, and I've played with plenty of players who, conversely, do put a lot of stock in that... and I have never felt weak, sub-optimal or less functionally effective than other characters. By 4th level, the racial ability bonuses even out more or less, and everyone can get to their twenty easily enough regardless of their choice of race, if that's what they want to do. 5e's bounded scores makes sure that you aren't handicapped by an unusual class-race combo unless you want to be; that's one part of what it's designed to assist with, and it does so well.

It's not because a build works that it's not sub optimal, and it's not because a build is sub optimal that it can't work : These are two very disctinct things, and the "rejection of the loss" effect is a very common thing and a well known issue in game design in general.
You might be able to get through the feeling of doing something "wrong" when you take an unconventional class/race combo that end up with low stats but a lot of people can't, especially in a game where fights are so common.

I'm not convinced at all by the argument that past 4th / 8th level, it evens out : first because if you get a +2 on top on a 15, you still don't get the +4 modifier unlike characters who started with a 16 on their main stat. To get the 20 score on a stat that started at 15, you will have to wait all the way up to level 12, which by that time should be the end of the game

Like i said in my original post, i would like to make my idea optional in order to respect some players intent to play as close as possible to the original dnd5 ruleset

Originally Posted by Ferros
Originally Posted by webmaster94
They honestly should just implement custom lineage from Tasha's if they want that. It allows you to customize the stats. I don't think it is actually a huge problem normally because there are a lot of 5e races to choose from (40 by my current count of all official published material including UA). However, the game's race selection is rather limited at the moment and I don't see them adding too many more.
Tasha's custom lineage is a better solution than the +1 homebrew idea in my opinion, because it keeps the bonuses the same while allowing you more flexibility in where they go. This solves the "suboptimal" race/class combo issue without the power creep. But hey, you can always Mod to get whatever stats you want anyway haha.

I wasn't aware a "correction" already existed for that, i hope they'll implement this feature then.

Last edited by Kalenne; 19/10/21 08:34 AM.
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I would like them to just add Tasha's alternate rules for ability scores. That way they don't have to invent anything new, its simple, and WotC is most likely also fine with it. I personally am also not a fan of lower power due to non-matching race and class.

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I don't care what the character creation rules are as long they're consistent among the NPCs. Which they're not. That's what I don't like.

Check out someone like Roland, for instance. He's a level three tiefling wizard with an Int of 18. Or the human druid Jeorna, also level three, and with an 18 Wis.

They're clearly not following the same rules as the PCs. It bothers me. A lot. I'm sure plenty of players don't care, but I think it's a serious issue.

It's kinda like how the NPC druid bears have different hit point totals than the PC druid bears.

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Originally Posted by JandK
I don't care what the character creation rules are as long they're consistent among the NPCs. Which they're not. That's what I don't like.

Check out someone like Roland, for instance. He's a level three tiefling wizard with an Int of 18. Or the human druid Jeorna, also level three, and with an 18 Wis.

They're clearly not following the same rules as the PCs. It bothers me.
It is annoying. I never thought DnD to be a great system gameplay wise, but I thought its strength is an ability to express characters through its systems. Honestly, same thing annoyed me in Kingmaker - some enemies arbitrary buffed based on developers desire for tough encounter, without an in universe explanation. I feel stats is something Larian just doesn't expect many player to be that concerned about. Like in D:OS, they try to make BG3 more about active abilities and enviroment interactions rather then stat rolls.

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When they introduce rolling for abilities, you can easily roll yourself into an "easy" mode with high stats across the board, if you so choose.

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Originally Posted by Firesong
Originally Posted by Fisher
Originally Posted by Firesong
However, not having to rely on certain races for classes would be great.
You'll be delighted to hear that this is 5e. You can pick any class as any race! Have fun.

Results in weak, suboptimal builds.
While I agree in the strictest sense that lacking (at most) a +1 to an ability modifier is suboptimal, you really need to consider the difference between suboptimal and optimal. You clearly value a very minor increase over roleplay, so just embrace the min/max.

The notion that you have to "rely" on certain races for classes is just flat out wrong, though.

What race/class combos are you thinking of that are so tightly intertwined that you'd describe them that way?

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Agree, especically as it is pretty much official now in Tasha's Cauldron...

If I DM though, I would simply allow a 1 point Ability tweak, similar to what OP is suggesting here. Though an all-around +1 anywhere is quite fine too for this game.

So a Dwarf Paladin could have 16 Chr, Dwarf Wizard 16 Int, etc.

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Originally Posted by Niara
Originally Posted by Firesong
Results in weak, suboptimal builds.
No it doesn't.

I don't think I've ever played a class/race combo where the strong ability score has aligned with the key class ability score, and I've played with plenty of players who, conversely, do put a lot of stock in that... and I have never felt weak, sub-optimal or less functionally effective than other characters. [...]
Can you say the same for cases where neither racial asi has aligned with a key class ability score (or Dex)? [70% curious, 30% gotcha]
I.e., a half-orc (+2 Str/+1 Con) or Tortle (+2 Str/+1 Wis) ​Wizard
or a Gith (+1 Int/+2 Str or Wis) Bard or Socerer?

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I would also like to play a High Elf Eldritch Knight with a starting Strength of 16 to be on par with other Fighters. But I guess having to wait until level 8 to have 20 Strength isn't the end of the world. Won't get any feats until 12 though. That's why I think all level 1 characters should get one extra feat. And that 5.5e should separate ASI's and feats again. What's the point of feats if you can't afford to pick them until high levels, and even then ASI's are tough competition?

It sucks High Elves don't make for better EK's, because it seems like their thing.

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I hate that there's this awesome long sword in the underdark for drow, but it's a Str based weapon. Drow naturally tend toward finesse weapons because of a game mechanic. Whereas I want a drow who can use that long sword, and use it well.

But if I make that drow, I know I'm always a point behind in Str. Which means I know there's always someone better out there at my same level. I know it's an immature thought. I get that I could ignore it and concentrate on roleplaying. But it's hard. The thought is still there. The knowledge that I'm not optimized for that long sword I so want to use as a drow.

Basically, I get it. I understand the desire for that extra point.

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Hmm, this is less of an issue in multiplayer, where we often have groups that want to reject meta-gaming or power gaming and intentionally just make builds that make them happy or builds they just want to play.

It's ironic to me that this game is mostly single player schlubs but the majority of the 'strange' content will likely only be experienced by the multiplayer folks.

I can't wait to introduce the world to my Half-Orc Sorcerer. He can't cast spells that well so he often just resorts to hitting enemies with a greatclub while yelling "Magic Missile!"

I am still waiting for them to fix the Lucky racial so I can play as a halfling fighter properly.

Anyway, I am sure it will end up as a mod.


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Originally Posted by Blackheifer
I can't wait to introduce the world to my Half-Orc Sorcerer. He can't cast spells that well so he often just resorts to hitting enemies with a greatclub while yelling "Magic Missile!"

That is priceless! Thank you for the laugh

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