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#794623 19/10/21 04:49 PM
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Thespen Offline OP
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Is SLEEP now useless or is it a bug – example:

My mage used SLEEP (had to touch the first person – range seems bugged too) and 2 NPCs went down.

A 3rd NPC went over and shoved the 1st sleeping mob to wake him and then carried out an attack action against me. Then 1st mob, who had been slept, then went and shoved the 2nd sleeping mob and then carried out an attack action against me . Then 2nd mob, who had been slept, then carried out an attack action against me as normal.

In effect SLEEP did nothing and went from being the best 1st level spell to being pointless. To wake a character should be an action, the same as helping a downed character, with all the other stuff that entails.

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Another unexpected consequence of shove being a bonus action.

Thanks for sharing, one more argument in favor of shove becoming a full action like it should always have been.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 19/10/21 04:59 PM.
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Another situation in which bonus action shove introduces problems.

Help out is a full action. Characters also wake up when attacked. Shove is an attack that does no damage and according to rules should be a full action. However, thanks to Larian making it a bonus action, in that situation it achieves the same result as "help" but without cost of main action.

Last edited by Wormerine; 19/10/21 04:59 PM.
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Regardless of what shove is, shouldn't waking up and getting up be an action in and of itself? Thus not allowing the person who was sleeping to be able to attack on the same round they woke up?

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Originally Posted by JandK
Thus not allowing the person who was sleeping to be able to attack on the same round they woke up?
Like after they are resurected? I don't think BG3 has "prone" as it was in Solasta.

I don't mind trading one characters full action, for another one being awake. Especially with a 4 player party, it might be too much - after all, it is unavoidable. Use of shove can trivialize it though.

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I mean, if you hadn't cast sleep then all 3 enemies would have shoved you, so it did do something xD.

But yeah, +1 for requiring a full action or damage to wake up. Sleep is already less powerful than RAW due to the ~40+% increase in goblin HP and only ~10% increase in sleep's affected-HP.

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Originally Posted by Wormerine
Like after they are resurected?

Hmm. You know, I'm actually not sure what happens when someone is resurrected. I don't think I've ever had to resurrect one of my characters in a combat before, at least not in this game.

I imagine they would lose their turn getting back up, though, right?

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Yes, you are correct - the person doing the resurrecting uses thier action and can only do bonus action; and the person being resurrecting loses their action for that round.

that includes using the aid action to help a downed comdrade too.

Last edited by Thespen; 19/10/21 08:25 PM.
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Most likely it will be like in the case of DOS2. So for the lower difficulty levels, it will be a dumber AI.

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+1 to make shove a full action.

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Originally Posted by Thespen
Is SLEEP now useless or is it a bug – example:

My mage used SLEEP (had to touch the first person – range seems bugged too) and 2 NPCs went down.

A 3rd NPC went over and shoved the 1st sleeping mob to wake him and then carried out an attack action against me. Then 1st mob, who had been slept, then went and shoved the 2nd sleeping mob and then carried out an attack action against me . Then 2nd mob, who had been slept, then carried out an attack action against me as normal.

In effect SLEEP did nothing and went from being the best 1st level spell to being pointless. To wake a character should be an action, the same as helping a downed character, with all the other stuff that entails.

SLEEP seems not useless cause in each fight at least one of my companions falls asleep cause each shitty Goblin(mage?) can cast sleep.

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Originally Posted by schpas
Originally Posted by Thespen
Is SLEEP now useless or is it a bug – example:

My mage used SLEEP (had to touch the first person – range seems bugged too) and 2 NPCs went down.

A 3rd NPC went over and shoved the 1st sleeping mob to wake him and then carried out an attack action against me. Then 1st mob, who had been slept, then went and shoved the 2nd sleeping mob and then carried out an attack action against me . Then 2nd mob, who had been slept, then carried out an attack action against me as normal.

In effect SLEEP did nothing and went from being the best 1st level spell to being pointless. To wake a character should be an action, the same as helping a downed character, with all the other stuff that entails.

SLEEP seems not useless cause in each fight at least one of my companions falls asleep cause each shitty Goblin(mage?) can cast sleep.

After all, you are fighting goblin shamans, so you should probably expect them to use magic.

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Originally Posted by Rhobar121
Originally Posted by schpas
Originally Posted by Thespen
Is SLEEP now useless or is it a bug – example:

My mage used SLEEP (had to touch the first person – range seems bugged too) and 2 NPCs went down.

A 3rd NPC went over and shoved the 1st sleeping mob to wake him and then carried out an attack action against me. Then 1st mob, who had been slept, then went and shoved the 2nd sleeping mob and then carried out an attack action against me . Then 2nd mob, who had been slept, then carried out an attack action against me as normal.

In effect SLEEP did nothing and went from being the best 1st level spell to being pointless. To wake a character should be an action, the same as helping a downed character, with all the other stuff that entails.

SLEEP seems not useless cause in each fight at least one of my companions falls asleep cause each shitty Goblin(mage?) can cast sleep.

After all, you are fighting goblin shamans, so you should probably expect them to use magic.

You are absolutely correct. However one crucial thing is that goblins are supposed to only have evocation and adoration spells. Goblins shouldn't really use sleep. It breaks what is established in the forgotten realms lore


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