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RagnarokCzD #795824 23/10/21 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Wait you could double cast Fireball?
I thought that Fireball is the same as Shatter, just with Fire instead of Thunder. O_o

And you cant double cast Shatter.

Haven't tested it myself but you mean you can't currently double cast shatter using Quicken? Because the problem with Larians implementation of Quicken is that it turns any spell into a bonus action spell(which it should) but also allows you to cast a leveled spell during your attack turn(which it shouldn't)

or do you mean that Shatter can't be twinned cast? That is because Shatter aint a single target spell.

MartinC #795833 23/10/21 07:33 PM
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^
Yes, I'm referring to Quicken or (potions of) Haste, not Twin. It's possible that Larian's implementation of Quicken/Haste won't be broken, given all the other buffs they've added to characters/classes. But level 5+ would be very useful for testing this.

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Yes with both potions of Haste, or Quickened you can cast it again ... i was talking about Twinned spell.

Originally Posted by PrivateRaccoon
(which it shouldn't)
Seems to me like there is a lot of discuission about this topic ... and the answer isnt far so clear as you put it ...
Yes i know there is litteraly written rule about this, but i also know that there is A LOT of people who are ignoring this rule ...

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 24/10/21 08:25 AM.

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RagnarokCzD #796054 24/10/21 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Seems to me like there is a lot of discuission about this topic ... and the answer isnt far so clear as you put it ...
Yes i know there is litteraly written rule about this, but i also know that there is A LOT of people who are ignoring this rule ...
I'm skeptical of this. You personally know an all-caps LOT of people who ignore this rule for Quicken and Haste specifically? Because I haven't seen much evidence on the forums of this, and one of the most basic and strongest guidelines about homebrew is that you shouldn't mess with the action economy.

I have seen posts from people who allow normal bonus action spells to be cast with leveled spells (are you referring to these people?), but they exempt Quickened bonus action spells from this allowance. And many other posters argue against that homebrew, saying it's unbalanced. I've seen no posts from people who allow Hasted characters to cast another spell in their tabletop games. Unless you're saying you do, in which case 1 person is still not "A LOT."

Anyways, this is off-topic. The point is that level 5 will show how broken (or not) this implementation is. If you like this implementation, you should want level 5 to be released to prove that "it's balanced." If you think this implementation is unbalanced you should also want level 5 in order to prove it.

MartinC #796056 24/10/21 03:19 PM
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Of course i want level 5 ...
Just not now ... right now i want them to finish previous 4 levels, and when they are DONE and i mean actualy done, not done by saying "this is all we are going to implement for theese" ...

Then its time for level 5, but not sooner.


In the words of the senior NCO instructor at cadet battalion:
“If you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying. And if you got caught you didn’t try hard enough!”
MartinC #796835 27/10/21 08:37 AM
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I am very frustrated about the level cap.
Just bought the game a few weeks ago, really like playing the game and then level cap 4?
Oh my, that really kills the fun. I'm playing tabletop 5e & PF, levelling is part of the biggest fun in these games!

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Originally Posted by EliasIncarnation
I'm just guessing, but I'm thinking that Patch 7 will be the last update before the game leaves Early Access, and that if they do decide to release more levels, it will be through that update.

Guessing you didn't read the part about this being the biggest game they've made... Personally I'm guessing we have over 24 months before release.

Aaaand once it is there's going to be massive balance issues because the entire game has been made to level 4.

Honestly if i knew this was going to be the state of the game after 12 months, would not have bought it and have already steered people away from buying it, not because it's EA, but what they're implementing in place of finishing the game proper is insulting. They keep adding flavour without fixing anything and development of character is non existent. Everybody whining for more flavour before the game's done and it's just depressing. Implement sorceror draconic origins, make the games max level cap a nothing level 10. Because honestly, level 10 is a nothing level and playing a Baldurs Gate game to be stuck to that level.... might as well play the first one again.


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MartinC #796934 27/10/21 03:23 PM
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I could even live with 36 months until release. As long as we get to see something new time and again this is exciting times for me: watching the game grow.


Larian, please improve QoL / UX.

And give us Halsin as companion, please.
RagnarokCzD #796937 27/10/21 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Of course i want level 5 ...
Just not now ... right now i want them to finish previous 4 levels, and when they are DONE and i mean actualy done, not done by saying "this is all we are going to implement for theese" ...

Then its time for level 5, but not sooner.


I can't really say if i agree or not. I guess that depends laugh. If we stay at lvl 4, fix all problems, get new problems with lvl 5 that could have been avoided with an ealier raise of the cap, then no. If, after removing the issues we now have we go on and fix stuff above the cap without too many problems, i would agree, no matter how much i would love lvl 5 +.

Guesswork...so regarding this we can only wait and see if larians plan works out. "we told you so" threads will show up in both cases.

My only fear is how long this will take if we continue with this pace and that everything becoes rushed the closer we get to release. I would rather have everything so that we can at least help clear up the most grievious stuff. Having really big bugs of gamebreaking errors after release is not good.

And (i said this elsewhere already): Larian has a lot of paying and willing testers with a lot of knowledge on D&D 5e mechanics and lore at hand and they hardly use them. If i were larian i would use them, they bought the game anyway already. So having a finshed "bug-free" game to release would be the way to go, marketing wise.

The better the game is at release, the more people will buy. May sound a bit simplified but thats the crux of it.

MartinC #796944 27/10/21 04:07 PM
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I'm off two minds about this. Implementing lvl 5 could be a very time consuming effort and every addition to EA is likely to add time onto the final release. Most classes wouldn't be that hard, since multiattack is already in the game and increasing Sneak Attack damage from 2d6 to 3d6 can't be that hard once they've figured out going from 1d6 to 2d6. But 3rd level spells are a whole other monster. That's a whole lot of animations and effects that need to be programmed and playtested enough to work in EA.

On the other hand, lvl 5 is the first major powerbump for most characters and it seems likely that we will be lvl 5, or just shy of it, when we first enter the final couple of areas of the EA. These areas also feel like they weren't designed for lvl 4 characters. Giving us the option to reach lvl 5 would probably give them a lot of useful data for tuning the difficulty of these areas. If they collect data for the Grymforge and Underdark for lvl 4 characters and tune these areas accordingly, but most people reach lvl 5 by then, the difficulty curve will be all over the place. Which is definitely my impression of the Original Sin games.


Don't you just hate it when people with dumb opinions have nice avatars?
UnknownEvil #796950 27/10/21 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Of course i want level 5 ...
Just not now ... right now i want them to finish previous 4 levels, and when they are DONE and i mean actualy done, not done by saying "this is all we are going to implement for theese" ...

Then its time for level 5, but not sooner.


I can't really say if i agree or not. I guess that depends laugh. If we stay at lvl 4, fix all problems, get new problems with lvl 5 that could have been avoided with an ealier raise of the cap, then no. If, after removing the issues we now have we go on and fix stuff above the cap without too many problems, i would agree, no matter how much i would love lvl 5 +.

Guesswork...so regarding this we can only wait and see if larians plan works out. "we told you so" threads will show up in both cases.

My only fear is how long this will take if we continue with this pace and that everything becoes rushed the closer we get to release. I would rather have everything so that we can at least help clear up the most grievious stuff. Having really big bugs of gamebreaking errors after release is not good.

And (i said this elsewhere already): Larian has a lot of paying and willing testers with a lot of knowledge on D&D 5e mechanics and lore at hand and they hardly use them. If i were larian i would use them, they bought the game anyway already. So having a finshed "bug-free" game to release would be the way to go, marketing wise.

The better the game is at release, the more people will buy. May sound a bit simplified but thats the crux of it.

Well, this is a never ending cycle then, isn't it? I mean, there could be problems at every level until the actual cap of the game, whatever that may be.

It's taking "so long" because while people are working on EA, others are working on the full game. I have no idea where they're at with Act's 2 or 3, or if it's even following a 3 act formula, do you? Do you have some links?

The thing about using "lots of 5e players" is that the game will never be released, because they won't agree on what's a priority, and what can be "homebrewed".

The better the game is at release is indeed important. However, from my own perspective, I'm not looking for a 1 to 1 conversion of 5e rules, just like I didn't play BG 1 and 2 because of their implementation of that rule system. I didn't see the title, then look at what rules they were going to use. I saw the title, and got hyped. It's really easy to dismiss me as some kind of anomaly, but I'm betting that that would be wrong. I wonder how many read the warnings on the store front of their choice, and decided to wait until release? Of those, I wonder how many will be thinking "if it's not a 1 to 1 conversion of 5e rules, I'm not buying". I'm sure there will be some, we've got them here already. I'm also sure that there will be some that will check the "No" box on whether a review that focuses on how well it's converted into 5e was helpful in their purchase decision.

I'm more worried about story, and playability. The ruleset is irrelevant, to me. Perfect 5e implementation or not, it doesn't matter. If the story can't make me look at my clock and realize that I'm fixing to go to bed when it's almost time to get up, the game will fail, for me, and the ruleset won't be a factor at all.

MartinC #796954 27/10/21 04:41 PM
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That's the problem isn't it? We know only what we see and go on guessing, hoping and worrying from there on.

I just wrote that i cannot understand some of larians reasoning for doing or neglecting something. And that i would do differently, at least based on what i know and see.

But normally a snail does not suddenly grow feet to run. So if it's going on like this, there may well be a lot of the aforementioned problems. Personally i'd rather know what is coming than having my hopes crushed.

It may well be that the game and it changes are at a totally different state than what we see now and we are still making threads about issues long resolved internally. (not that i really believe that though).

UnknownEvil #796961 27/10/21 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
That's the problem isn't it? We know only what we see and go on guessing, hoping and worrying from there on.

I just wrote that i cannot understand some of larians reasoning for doing or neglecting something. And that i would do differently, at least based on what i know and see.

But normally a snail does not suddenly grow feet to run. So if it's going on like this, there may well be a lot of the aforementioned problems. Personally i'd rather know what is coming than having my hopes crushed.

It may well be that the game and it changes are at a totally different state than what we see now and we are still making threads about issues long resolved internally. (not that i really believe that though).

I didn't participate in the DoS 2 EA, but anecdotal evidence suggests that what released, compared to what was in the EA was different. That's enough for me to have a bit of faith, along with the fact that I'm not putting a lot of effort into playing this EA every day. I don't want to burn myself out on it before I have the full game in my hands.

Firesong #796967 27/10/21 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Montiness
Originally Posted by EliasIncarnation
I'm just guessing, but I'm thinking that Patch 7 will be the last update before the game leaves Early Access, and that if they do decide to release more levels, it will be through that update.

Guessing you didn't read the part about this being the biggest game they've made... Personally I'm guessing we have over 24 months before release.

Aaaand once it is there's going to be massive balance issues because the entire game has been made to level 4.

Honestly if i knew this was going to be the state of the game after 12 months, would not have bought it and have already steered people away from buying it, not because it's EA, but what they're implementing in place of finishing the game proper is insulting. They keep adding flavour without fixing anything and development of character is non existent. Everybody whining for more flavour before the game's done and it's just depressing. Implement sorceror draconic origins, make the games max level cap a nothing level 10. Because honestly, level 10 is a nothing level and playing a Baldurs Gate game to be stuck to that level.... might as well play the first one again.

If you're right, that could be good, aside from the balance issues.
I think that the Early Access version not having more levels and acts isn't how a game in Early Access should be, especially if the game's going to be big and take that long to release.

Originally Posted by Firesong
I could even live with 36 months until release. As long as we get to see something new time and again this is exciting times for me: watching the game grow.

I wouldn't say it's watching the game grow, since they have probably already finished a lot more than whatever they're going to throw to players during the rest of the game's development, and they also don't seem to be telling players that much if anything about how the game is actually progressing.

Last edited by EliasIncarnation; 28/10/21 01:41 AM.
MartinC #797036 27/10/21 11:06 PM
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More or less, all boils down to a lack of communication yet again...

kinda frustrating to see it again and again...

Firesong #797078 28/10/21 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Firesong
I could even live with 36 months until release. As long as we get to see something new time and again this is exciting times for me: watching the game grow.

Not me, in jsut over a year I'm going to be legally blind thanks to multiple issues, this was the last chance at having something to enjoy that I've been looking forward to for nearly 20 years and now it's just another disappointment.

edit... over 20 years.

Last edited by Montiness; 28/10/21 05:41 AM.

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