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Without any false modesty, I've had a stroke of pure genius regarding the resting system. Hear me out.

So, from the game mechanic's point of view, a long rest should be something you have to earn and can't spam. Otherwise, it breaks the balance between classes that restore resources on short vs long rest. It also makes sense from a roleplaying perspective - we are under constant threat of turning into Illithid scum. Just taking the rest of the day off after killing 2 lvl 1 goblins shouldn't be an option. Currently, the way that this "earning" of rest is implemented is through camp supplies. I shan't waste too many words deriding that system, I think we're all aware of its many inadequacies. A much better way of implementing this "earning" of rest would be by collecting Rest Points (TM).

What are these? I'm so glad you asked.

So, say that you start each day with 0 Rest Points, and you need to collect a 100 to do a long rest. When you get to 33 or 66, you can do a short rest. And how do you collect these? By playing the game, not by actually collecting anything. So, there would be 2 ways to earn Rest Points - by earning either Combat or Story Points, both of which translate 1:1 to Rest Points. So, basically, to do a long rest, you would need to get a combined 100 Combat and/or Story Points.

Combat Points are earned, obviously, by doing combat. The harder the encounter, the more Combat Points you get. So, say, perhaps Ethel or the Githyanki patrol would give a 100 points, enabling you to do a long rest right afterward. That also makes sense from the roleplaying perspective - these are boss fights you're not going to engage in willy-nilly in the middle of adventuring, your characters would want to spend a hefty part of the day preparing for these, and hence should be granted a rest afterward. Fighting the goblins to free the gnome strapped to the windmill might bring you, say, 35 Combat Points, enough to do a short rest. Killing the 2 goblins at the side entrance to the Blighted Village might bring, say, 5.

Story Points are earned in every way other than combat. So, discovering new areas, engaging in new conversations with NPCs, getting Inspiration points, taking or turning in quests or otherwise progressing the storyline, reading a new book (finally, a practical use for all these books lying around), crafting an item, etc. These are all things that take time, and doing them should bring you closer to nighttime and rest. Obviously, Story Points should be awarded far more sparingly than Combat Points, but having them reflects the fundamental truth that adventuring is more than just combat, and that you can have full adventuring days with barely any combat.

All of this also works really well with the fact that you can bypass combat encounters with conversation. If you do, you wouldn't get any Combat Points, but you'd get some Story Points. The amount could be based upon how difficult it is to avoid the fight, difficulty of ability checks during the conversation, or something to that effect. Which again makes perfect roleplaying sense - if you've spent half an hour talking your way out of the fight - you should receive the amount of Story Points reflecting this time passage and effort, and it should be lower than if you've spent 3 hours fighting the same foes.

Another unexpected benefit of implementing the rest system this way is that the rest system could be used to scale difficulty really well. Instead of buffing the HP of foes or other approaches which might be very hard to balance, you could simply increase or decrease the difficulty of the game by increasing or decreasing the number of Rest Points needed for short or long rest.


If you like this idea, please help me turn this thread into a hundred pages of "+1" comments so that it sticks to the top and Larian has no choice but to implement it. Thank you.

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So, using your system, I do a long rest, fight Ethel, and then do a long rest. What's fixed, exactly?

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-1

So you want to add an artificial homebrew mechanic to what you see as a problem? The end result being you get to micromanage how other people play the game?

Larian has implemented a rest system which complies with RAW. You need food to rest and a place to rest at. I would prefer people be allowed to determine how often they rest for themselves.


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Originally Posted by robertthebard
So, using your system, I do a long rest, fight Ethel, and then do a long rest. What's fixed, exactly?
I don't see how that is a problem. Ethel is a boss. In my book, taking a whole day to prepare for and fight the boss is perfectly fine. You could also, say, get 50 or 70 Combat Points from Ethel if you think she's not worthy of granting a long rest, but those are nuances.

Last edited by LordRhaegar; 22/10/21 02:53 PM.
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Originally Posted by Blackheifer
Larian has implemented a rest system which complies with RAW. You need food to rest and a place to rest at. I would prefer people be allowed to determine how often they rest for themselves.
It's all a matter of opinion, of course, but seems to me no one likes their RAW implementation of rest. In fact, I would call their implementation a bad joke. Also, people deciding for themselves how often they rest is not how D&D works. DM decides if the chars can take a rest or not.

Last edited by LordRhaegar; 22/10/21 02:54 PM.
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No, they're not "nuances", they're "control mechanisms" to lock other players out of doing something you don't like. My solution was far simpler: I didn't use LRs until I absolutely had to. In so doing, I missed a lot of potential story beats for the companions, and character development for myself, because I missed dream sequences with the tadpole. Where's your solution for this issue? It doesn't exist. Note that the comps issue can be dealt with in other ways, but the tadpole sequences are dreams.

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Originally Posted by LordRhaegar
Originally Posted by Blackheifer
Larian has implemented a rest system which complies with RAW. You need food to rest and a place to rest at. I would prefer people be allowed to determine how often they rest for themselves.
It's all a matter of opinion, of course, but seems to me no one likes their RAW implementation of rest. In fact, I would call their implementation a bad joke.

Some overly vocal people on the forums don't like it. Most people don't really have a problem with it. I don't have a problem with it.

The only criteria I want to encourage Larian to stick to is the RAW ones. The solution for everything else would be a mod.


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One of the resting issues with this game is that:

1. Since resting replenishes abilities, it shouldn't happen all the time, and
2. Since story plot elements come out during resting, it should happen a lot to let those cut scenes play out.

Both are true. Both work against one another. The game play balance mechanic is at odds with the unfolding story line.

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Originally Posted by robertthebard
No, they're not "nuances", they're "control mechanisms" to lock other players out of doing something you don't like. My solution was far simpler: I didn't use LRs until I absolutely had to. In so doing, I missed a lot of potential story beats for the companions, and character development for myself, because I missed dream sequences with the tadpole. Where's your solution for this issue? It doesn't exist. Note that the comps issue can be dealt with in other ways, but the tadpole sequences are dreams.
I don't even understand what you mean. Lock out who out of what? This system isn't locking you out of anything other than spamming rest. I also had the same experience where I missed out on a lot of camp chatter cuz I'd take my first long rest after clearing the whole Druid Grove. Players could be nudged to take rests so they wouldn't miss out on those by implementing increasing penalties if you accrue more and more Rest Points, for example by having a disadvantage on attacks or dialogues, or just increasing flat roll penalties. For example, for each 10 points over 100, you'd get a -1 on any roll you make. That again makes roleplaying sense, it's harder to fight or lie convincingly if you're dead tired. Personally, I'm also fine without that.

Last edited by LordRhaegar; 22/10/21 03:24 PM.
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Originally Posted by Blackheifer
I don't have a problem with it.
I think you have an overinflated sense of self-importance. Every third newly opened thread is about the rest system, so clearly, people aren't happy with it.

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Originally Posted by Blackheifer
So you want to add an artificial homebrew
Nonsense. This is actually closely following the basic rules about rest:
https://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/DnD_BasicRules_2018.pdf#page=70

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Originally Posted by JandK
One of the resting issues with this game is that:

1. Since resting replenishes abilities, it shouldn't happen all the time, and
2. Since story plot elements come out during resting, it should happen a lot to let those cut scenes play out.

Both are true. Both work against one another. The game play balance mechanic is at odds with the unfolding story line.

You don't need -that- many rests for the dream sequences. This -can- be balanced. And you should be able to do companion cut-scene chats anywhere, not just prior to sleeping. A short rest would be a perfect trigger, for example.

Last edited by LordRhaegar; 22/10/21 03:27 PM.
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Originally Posted by LordRhaegar
Originally Posted by Blackheifer
I don't have a problem with it.
I think you have an overinflated sense of self-importance. Every third newly opened thread is about the rest system, so clearly, people aren't happy with it.

No, I don't think my opinion is worth more than anyone else. Stop projecting. I was merely mentioning it as an aside - I don't have any issue with the rest system. You are working with anecdotal information also. The forums are a microcosm of player - most people have jobs, families and full lives :P

Last edited by Blackheifer; 22/10/21 03:26 PM.

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Originally Posted by LordRhaegar
Originally Posted by robertthebard
No, they're not "nuances", they're "control mechanisms" to lock other players out of doing something you don't like. My solution was far simpler: I didn't use LRs until I absolutely had to. In so doing, I missed a lot of potential story beats for the companions, and character development for myself, because I missed dream sequences with the tadpole. Where's your solution for this issue? It doesn't exist. Note that the comps issue can be dealt with in other ways, but the tadpole sequences are dreams.
I don't even understand what you mean. Lock out who out of what? This system isn't locking you out of anything other than spamming rest. I also had the same experience where I missed out on a lot of camp chatter cuz I'd take my first long rest after clearing the whole Druid Grove. Players could be nudged to take rests so they wouldn't miss out on those by implementing increasing penalties if you accrue more and more Rest Points, for example by having a disadvantage on attacks or dialogues, or just increasing flat roll penalties. That again makes roleplaying sense, it's harder to fight or lie convincingly if you're dead tired. Personally, I'm also fine without that.
Originally Posted by LordRhaegar
Originally Posted by Blackheifer
I don't have a problem with it.


I think you have an overinflated sense of self-importance. Every third newly opened thread is about the rest system, so clearly, people aren't happy with it.

#Irony? So every third thread is about rest, and you felt that your take on the topic was so radical that you needed yet another thread? That seems rather egotistical to me, especially given what your idea is, and how it doesn't solve anything. Especially when you don't understand what I mean, but then go on to confirm exactly what I said. So let me explain it more simply: You missed out on dialog in camp, because you didn't take a LR when you needed to in order to unlock that content. You are now locked out of getting it.

The camp should be a hub, since we don't have any other means of getting to this content at present. Before we go trying to lock people out the same way we've both been locked out of content, we should maybe solve that issue first. Since I'm fairly certain, based on the first post quoted here, that you won't understand what I mean, players that are prevented from using the camp until they meet your arbitrary restrictions won't be able to experience the stuff they need to experience to advance things like romances and tadpole arcs. Fix that first. Otherwise, you're not helping the game, you're further breaking it.

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Originally Posted by LordRhaegar
Originally Posted by JandK
One of the resting issues with this game is that:

1. Since resting replenishes abilities, it shouldn't happen all the time, and
2. Since story plot elements come out during resting, it should happen a lot to let those cut scenes play out.

Both are true. Both work against one another. The game play balance mechanic is at odds with the unfolding story line.

You don't need -that- many rests for the dream sequences. This -can- be balanced.


But you do need that many for the dreams and the various conversations with the companions, including things like finding out that Astarion is a vampire and meeting Raphael, and the list goes on.

I'm not saying I'm against your idea.

Rather, I'm saying that I think there's a huge problem baked into the resting system. It's at odds with itself, and I think that has to be solved on a bigger level. In other words, I think Larian should consider separating the story elements from the resting mechanic all together.

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I don't think new currency systems are really needed. Just make camp supplies drop from combat and quests, and reduce the amount you find in random containers.

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Originally Posted by robertthebard
lots of bs
No, you're just complicating things unnecessarily. There are only a few dream sequences, and as I sad, there could be a way to pressure players to take those long rests. And if they still don't, so what if they get locked out of content? Newsflash: it's a non-linear game. In no single run will you experience all the content. All other camp cut-scenes *do not need to be* *camp* cut-scenes.

And my system solves the biggest problem with the resting system - the fact that it can be spammed.

Last edited by LordRhaegar; 22/10/21 03:33 PM.
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Originally Posted by JandK
But you do need that many for the dreams and the various conversations with the companions, including things like finding out that Astarion is a vampire and meeting Raphael, and the list goes on.
This could be also solved by having multiple hooks for triggering plotlines. For example, you don't need to have Astarion bite you to find out he's a vampire spawn. If he hasn't bitten you, the Gurr encounter could be changed so that the monster hunter recognizes Astarionas a vampire spawn, reveals his true nature, and then you have to decide which one, if any, you want to help in the ensuing fight.

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Originally Posted by polliwagwhirl
I don't think new currency systems are really needed. Just make camp supplies drop from combat and quests, and reduce the amount you find in random containers.
That wouldn't be the worst thing, but you could still hoard lots of supplies early on and then do multiple rests later without doing anything in between, which doesn't make much roleplaying sense, and if you really think about it, the food already is a currency. Basically, drastically lowering the amount of food and placing it more strategically would be functionally similar to my proposal, without the added benefit of preventing hoarding, and being able to use the resting system as a difficulty scaling tool.

Last edited by LordRhaegar; 22/10/21 03:45 PM.
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Originally Posted by LordRhaegar
Originally Posted by robertthebard
lots of bs
No, you're just complicating things unnecessarily. There are only a few dream sequences, and as I sad, there could be a way to pressure players to take those long rests. And if they still don't, so what if they get locked out of content? Newsflash: it's a non-linear game. In no single run will you experience all the content. All other camp cut-scenes *do not need to be* *camp* cut-scenes.

And my system solves the biggest problem with the resting system - the fact that it can be spammed.

Yeah, there's lots of "bs" here, but I think you're going to be surprised where I find it lies. Looking at page one of this particular forum, just before clicking in to this topic, and there aren't even 3 topics specifically aimed at resting on the first page. So, there's "BS" number one where "every third thread" is concerned, yes? Here's another example of BS: "Well, we just find a way to pressure them into taking those long rests", despite the fact that they may not have enough rest points to actually do that, right? I mean, that's the premise of your thread, to artificially limit LRs, but your solution to this very real issue is to force more LRs. Some more BS: "you're not going to get every sequence". So now, instead of replying to what was actually said, you're making stuff up, aka "strawman", so you can refute it.

These are the holes with your "Final Solution" that are exposed with just a casual examination. I wonder how many backend holes there are? Of course, there's the more obvious problem: I don't think there's a problem with the rest system to begin with, because it doesn't matter to me if Joe Casual is spamming them or not. It has absolutely no bearing on my SP campaign. I've come down firmly on restrictions in MP, where it affects everyone in that server, but in SP, it's simply none of my business.

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