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#796237 25/10/21 08:14 AM
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Maybe this is superfluos because i really don't know how far the development has progressed.

A lot of people, me included, would like more content faster. We have act 1 and level 4. Playing in this restriction for a year now has blunted the expierience a lot for me. I paused a pretty long time and restarted playing with Patch 6. And having a blast again, rounding up on 230 hours or so.

Why do we not have more? Even the whole game as early access? Even unfinished and buggy i would play again and again for a pretty long while and help with suggestions, ideas and bug reports. When changes come i would do the same again.

After a year of act 1 i fear that if this contiues for much longer without a little progress i will have problems playing properly on release. After all, the areas we have now are pretty used up. I fear i will not find small changes or enjoy act 1 again after release, rush through it to see new stuff and ruin my game expierience.

So, even if not all of the game, at least the next act would be great.

I really do not want to leave a Nautiloid for the 100th time, talk to the same people, kill the same enemies, try to find yet another way to go through act 1.

Not sure how many of you feel the same but no matter how much i like the game (and even act1) at one point the enthusiasm will break. I had i before, playing beta on a game, got fed up and never played the release. Not that i think this will happen here, but i really don't want my fun blunted when we finally have a release.

Even if i sound really arrogant now, looking at the state of the game now, larian could use the help of willing players to make this game what they want it to be (i guess, since at times i am not sure what they want).

The mechanics are awkward in a lot of places, some even game breaking imo (shove i.e.) graphics bugs, character creation etc. nearly every aspect of the game looks as if it still needs work. Maybe they have it all done and just don't want to add it during EA (Voices,Faces, Items etc.)

Well, this is just my opinion and my feeling and since i know not what they planned for the EA i just wanted to let them know that too careful "planning" can cost you players in the end.

Opening up a little more of the game may even get more players buying the EA since i know at least 3 that don't want to pay for an EA that just has so little content.

My 2 cents.

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Polishing more content for EA release would take even more time away from the development.

I wouldn’t worry too much about 1.0. From what I understand D:OS2 when released felt quite fresh in spite of the extensive EA testing. Sven also mentioned, I think, that they will be holding off on some stuff for act1 to avoid issue that you mentioned.

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EA is to test systems mainly. Content is not the point, and will probably be worked on simultaniously. I really don't want any more content patches storywise. Grymforge is nice, but I hope that is the end for content for now.

Lets get the systems right and then release the game proper.

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This sounds like just another "i want" topic ... without worrying about any consequences. -_-


Short coment on my English. smile

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Frankly, the narrative of this game stands on such shaky legs that my interest for full release goes down with every patch that fails to address stuff like the iffy companion dialogues (namely how they're tied to the iffy camping mechanics), the lack of any tangible urgency in a plot baked with it, the absense of a sensical evil path, the underwhelming underdark, and so on and so forth.

I understand wanting to keep things fresh for full release, but narratively speaking this 1 year old EA is as bad as the day it came out, and that doesn't inspire confidence.

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The problem with the 'EA for testing mechanics' argument is that we can currently only test a tiny set of *low-level* mechanics. Characters play very differently as they level in 5E. I would like to play some higher level classes/content to see how the game systems/mechanics scale. Instead, we haven't (and may not) see *any* of that. That is concerning - given how messed up many system are at levels 1-4. The assumptions seems to be: if we can get it working with levels 1-4 (which have limited complexity) then it will just work for more mechanically complex higher level play. I don't think that follows at all.

Last edited by booboo; 25/10/21 12:56 PM.
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Originally Posted by booboo
The problem with the 'EA for testing mechanics' argument is that we can currently only test a tiny set of *low-level* mechanics. Characters play very differently as they level in 5E. I would like to play some higher level classes/content to see how the game systems/mechanics scale. Instead, we haven't (and may not) see *any* of that. That is concerning - given how messed up many system are at levels 1-4. The assumptions seems to be: if we can get it working with levels 1-4 (which have limited complexity) then it will just work for more mechanically complex higher level play. I don't think that follows at all.

I can understand your point, especially since Larian has shown having problems translating some core mechanics like reactions. But, it seems we will be given lvl 5 atleast. Sven wouldn't have hinted at that if it weren't in the plans. We just don't know when.

Overall I feel that Larian has taking on this project in the completely wrong order. When you have a source material so vast and and a rule system evolved through trial and error over 40 years, I feel the first thing they should have done would be to make sure they can translate the core mechanics well to the new media format. Resting, character creation, reactions, spell integration(single vs aoe, melee/ranged touch, saves and projectile pathing, action economy etc). Once that is put in place they can start worrying about adding the fluff that is their thing. It just seems like they try so hard to work around the rules, making us players upset, giving them extra work to fix it later.

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Originally Posted by Innateagle
I understand wanting to keep things fresh for full release, but narratively speaking this 1 year old EA is as bad as the day it came out, and that doesn't inspire confidence.
But at the same time in unlike case that Larian will take a lot of feedback onboard for 1.0 release, it is better to keep that stuff for 1.0 then release early, no? While you might be sceptical now, but if you hear on release that stuff have been rewritten and it is much better now, surely it will regain your interest? If they have already feedback they need/want, they have little to gain at this point to show their cards (not that I necessarly believe that all the stuff I don't personally like are perceived as problems - not by Larian nor a chunk of the community).


Originally Posted by booboo
The problem with the 'EA for testing mechanics' argument is that we can currently only test a tiny set of *low-level* mechanics. Characters play very differently as they level in 5E.
Yes, but I also feel it's foolish to assume that Larian can't forsee consequences without direct feedback. If they see what people respond well/badly in levels 1-4, surely they can apply those lessons to later levels. And I share your worry - I think combat system as it is has a lot of problems which can get much much worse once we prograss up the power curve. But I am less worried about Larian not realizing consequences of their changes, and more about them seeing fun, in things I don't find entertaining. I am also confident there is far more testing going on, then just EA playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Wormerine
Yes, but I also feel it's foolish to assume that Larian can't forsee consequences without direct feedback. If they see what people respond well/badly in levels 1-4, surely they can apply those lessons to later levels. And I share your worry - I think combat system as it is has a lot of problems which can get much much worse once we prograss up the power curve. But I am less worried about Larian not realizing consequences of their changes, and more about them seeing fun, in things I don't find entertaining. I am also confident there is far more testing going on, then just EA playerbase.

Agree. I would guess that we will see at least level 5 in EA to test things like multiple attacks (an essential feature). I would say as long as Larian gets the systems right (aka makes them real 5e) there are no big worries for later levels for me. The only thing that could break later levels would be exessive homebrew and not sticking to 5e. This is why those things are pretty much my biggest worries and I really hope that patch 7 will be the big systems patch and not another "class + land mass" thing (which I did really enjoy as a kind of EA anniversary thing).

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Funny how some people interpret the opinions of others.

I can understand the "let us wait for full release" side as well as my own. I already said that i do not know what larian has in its hands right now so it may well be that i do not see the plan they follow.

What i can see is a game, one year into EA with a relatively low amount of content. And nearly everything we have does have an issue. Apart from boredom on my side, i fear that if we stay with what we have, get the full game and everything after the content of

what was tested during EA is full of problems, it may well be that a lot of new players will return the game and the reviews will turn out bad. Bad advertisement is never good.

So i think, if the EA tests out more, the endgame will have less problems. Simple as that. In addition to that less players will stop out of boredom and they get more suggestions for the future.

It all has it's drawbacks. I personally love the fact how much influence on the game these forums have, it feels a very little bit like we help it grow into something even better. I would hate to see everything after what we could test out in EA be rushed or bad because of some timeline. Cyberpunk 2077 was a good example.


But well, maybe i am totally wrong about that and my worries are unfounded. i do not need a "told you so" situation. I do not think larian will change the release plan because of some forum posts, but maybe it makes them think about it.

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If you feel burned out, take a break ... there is no shame in that.
I just finished single Sorcerer play last week and im waiting with Evil gameplay for now, until i feel the urge to jump there again. ^_^

Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
What i can see is a game, one year into EA with a relatively low amount of content.
Exactly that amount of content as we were promissed ...
It might not seem a lot to you personaly, but that is entirely different situation.

Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
And nearly everything we have does have an issue.
That is why there is EA ... there was issues expected and part of our "job" is to find them and report them. wink
Also ... same as in previous point ... we were warned about this!

Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
i fear that if we stay with what we have, get the full game and everything after the content of what was tested during EA is full of problems, it may well be that a lot of new players will return the game and the reviews will turn out bad.
That is the risk we simply have to take ... since that is the rist that exist with litteraly every game (series, movie, book, song, painting ... practicaly anything, where we are not allowed to see the proces, only results laugh ).

Take is as if this game would not have EA at all, those problems would be everywhere ... and there would also be mechanic problems that was allready changed ... like carry weight was reduced, barrels weight was incerased, there was minimum strength requirements added for manipulation with certain objects, spells and cantrips have ben changed to be closer to DnD rules instead of causing AoE for cost of reduced damage, visual of many NPCs was changed, There was Long Rest "limitation implemented" and lots and lots more. smile
This game is allready entirely different from what we had year ago. wink

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 25/10/21 05:27 PM.

Short coment on my English. smile

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Nowhere did i say that you were wrong. And ofc i accept the decision larian made (not that i have a choice).

Decisions can be changed though, that is why i wrote this. The risk that you state is exactly what i think a little more content might lessen. You tell me what problems we would have without an EA and that is exactly my point. Later game mechanics might show problems that could have been avoided like those you mentioned.

I would be lying if part of the reason would not be to get more content faster. I guess just adding more races and classes and allow for higher levels would help too. I am not sure if playing those in the current setting would not pose its own problems. That again would help too. Especially for players who tend to draw out moving on

in the story. If after release you stay in act one till level 6, 8, or even higher if XP allow for it, that might open up another list of problems. At least those can be avoided without continuing the storyline.


For some this might just sound like begging for more content, but that is not my intention. Not my only one at least, there will be time to play after release ofc. I hope that i will still like it then and not get this "not again" feeling and rush through act 1, miss out on stuff etc. Thats my personal issue.

My first AD&D game was pools of radiance. From 1988. On C64. And since then i have seen so many games i looked forward to fail miserably. A lot of D&D games were sub-par. Dark Alliance on PS4/5 is just another example that came out less then expected. It has been quite a while since i was so hyped for a game.

That's why i wrote my opinion. It has happened before. Often.

Last edited by UnknownEvil; 25/10/21 06:33 PM.
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I honestly allways wondered why people even say that they would like developers to add More classes, more races, more maps, more items, more spells ... more anything. laugh
Do you honestly think they dont know? smile

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 25/10/21 06:26 PM.

Short coment on my English. smile

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
I honestly allways wondered why people even say that they would like developers to add More classes, more races, more maps, more items, more spells ... more anything. laugh
Do you honestly think they dont know? smile

No, i do not think they do not know. I think some of them do not realize but cutting things like classes, spells and abilities is mostly a programming decision. Every class, spell or skill needs to fit in. D&D has a predetermied ruleset, thats one part. Changes need to be made for Video game adaption, these changes lead to unbalance and so on. In addition larian seems to like to add their own twist to things.
I guess you know that too.
Implementing the whole D&D rules that exist may be a bit much laugh. We can only hope :P

#796381 25/10/21 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by <Redacted>
<Redacted>

We have already seen how well (and in some cases not well at all) that works in combination. I think the Videogame adaption in itself is difficult enough. I guess since they are so confident in DOS2 they started the adaption of the 5e rules by taking similar things from DOS2 and applied them here. With some funny outcomes smile

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Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by Innateagle
I understand wanting to keep things fresh for full release, but narratively speaking this 1 year old EA is as bad as the day it came out, and that doesn't inspire confidence.
But at the same time in unlike case that Larian will take a lot of feedback onboard for 1.0 release, it is better to keep that stuff for 1.0 then release early, no?

No? This is an Early Access, not a demo and not a beta. And there aren't a couple issues, there are a staggering amout of them. And it's been 1 year. So while we can certanly speculate on what may or may not be, hoping that the last year's mediocrity won't be indicative of the final product, what's actually infront of me tells me that this EA has barely moved forward in the last 12 months. Mix and shake that with Larian's frankly terrible communication and yeah, i don't see why i should believe steps are being taken to address any of the narrative issues.

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Originally Posted by Innateagle
No? This is an Early Access, not a demo and not a beta.
I don't know that much about programing but I think it would be pre-alpha build? BG3 isn't at the stage to have demo (snippit of finished product) nor is unlikely to be feature complete (beta).

As to what you can expect from EA check the store discription of the item you purchased.
Quote
“Leading up to release you can expect a plethora of incremental improvements and new features to be added to the game, as well as the inclusion of new classes and races. The 1.0 release will include the full game including Acts 2 and 3.”
As every early adopters we will get to play test the whole game once 1.0 drops. Hopefully, if needed, there will be extra polish added with console ports.

Last edited by Wormerine; 25/10/21 09:30 PM.
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incremental indeed smile

Well, still better than rushed...

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Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by Innateagle
No? This is an Early Access, not a demo and not a beta.
I don't know that much about programing but I think it would be pre-alpha build? BG3 isn't at the stage to have demo (snippit of finished product) nor is unlikely to be feature complete (beta).

As to what you can expect from EA check the store discription of the item you purchased.
Quote
“Leading up to release you can expect a plethora of incremental improvements and new features to be added to the game, as well as the inclusion of new classes and races. The 1.0 release will include the full game including Acts 2 and 3.”
As every early adopters we will get to play test the whole game once 1.0 drops. Hopefully, if needed, there will be extra polish added with console ports.

I don't know what you're talking about, and my english vocabulary isn't nearly vast enough to allow me to repeat myself a third time in a way that wouldn't sound redundant.

Also, plethora means a whole fucking lot.

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Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
I think some of them do not realize but cutting things like classes, spells and abilities is mostly a programming decision. Every class, spell or skill needs to fit in. D&D has a predetermied ruleset, thats one part.
That is interesting point of view ...
But i dont think they "cut out" anything (except Dinosaurs, acording to Swen) ... they simply didnt implement it yet. laugh

That is why we dont have any Half-Orc in game yet, their models are not done ...
That is why we cant play Bards, Monks, Barbarians ... they are not done, yet ...

So until Larian say "well, now we are finaly done", we can assume that everything that is missing has simply not been completed yet. wink


Short coment on my English. smile

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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