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From the perspective of a software developer I see no real issues here. The thing is that Larian wants to deploy builds that are stable obviously, so they cannot simply push anything they work on it into every new patch. This is why a lot of things seem to move very slowly (aside from things like graphics and very general systems).

Obviously this could mean that they dont do anything, but for now I do hope that this is not the case. Because simply implementing things onto the existing system would not be that difficult, so the slow pace seems to be an indicator for a lot of background work.

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Originally Posted by KingTiki
From the perspective of a software developer I see no real issues here. The thing is that Larian wants to deploy builds that are stable obviously, so they cannot simply push anything they work on it into every new patch. This is why a lot of things seem to move very slowly (aside from things like graphics and very general systems).

Word. It's really, really hard to convey how difficult it is build, test, and deploy any moderately-complex software project, how every change can have fractal implications on things you would have assumed are completely unrelated. Making change is hard. Not that it's impossible or shouldn't be done, but it's hard.

Locking down EA to a very small set of content in order to facilitate the work we don't have insight into is a perfectly reasonable decision.

I think there's a marketing aspect as well. Think of the reviewers sharpening their keyboards for full release. "After long wait, Baldur's Gate 3, with thousands of early-access players salivating for the full release, is finally here!" versus "For the thousands of early access players, while there will be some new surprises in this release, much of it will be familiar."

For $60 we get to play some content, respond to it, and be part of the marketing for full release. I'm fine with that. I only started playing like the week patch 5 came, so the only real change I've seen is 5 -> 6, and those have all been great changes. Based on what I've read about previous iterations, there's been continuous, albeit perceived-slow, improvement. I'm not concerned about a let down when we finally get to full release.

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Originally Posted by colinl8
Originally Posted by KingTiki
From the perspective of a software developer I see no real issues here. The thing is that Larian wants to deploy builds that are stable obviously, so they cannot simply push anything they work on it into every new patch. This is why a lot of things seem to move very slowly (aside from things like graphics and very general systems).

Word. It's really, really hard to convey how difficult it is build, test, and deploy any moderately-complex software project, how every change can have fractal implications on things you would have assumed are completely unrelated. Making change is hard. Not that it's impossible or shouldn't be done, but it's hard.

Locking down EA to a very small set of content in order to facilitate the work we don't have insight into is a perfectly reasonable decision.

I think there's a marketing aspect as well. Think of the reviewers sharpening their keyboards for full release. "After long wait, Baldur's Gate 3, with thousands of early-access players salivating for the full release, is finally here!" versus "For the thousands of early access players, while there will be some new surprises in this release, much of it will be familiar."

For $60 we get to play some content, respond to it, and be part of the marketing for full release. I'm fine with that. I only started playing like the week patch 5 came, so the only real change I've seen is 5 -> 6, and those have all been great changes. Based on what I've read about previous iterations, there's been continuous, albeit perceived-slow, improvement. I'm not concerned about a let down when we finally get to full release.

Well, it is millions of lines of code after all. I guess most of it is object oriented programming by now but it translates to a lot of code anyway. I think a lot of people do not realize whats behind a game.

But locking EA to a small amount of content can also backfire depending on how they go on. Since it is a paid for EA and open beta test is out of the question. They could mount a "closed" beta for people who bought the game before they do a full release and decide from there on how to progress. Can be risky too if said beta
has too many issues for a timely release...going back to EA phase after that will not work.
That's one reason i was voting for more content or at least more levels. All moot if larians plan works out as intended. I don't really think they will change that plan anyway. Sadly Game developers and communication don't go well together, no matter how ofter it blows in their faces.

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Originally Posted by Innateagle
Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by Innateagle
No? This is an Early Access, not a demo and not a beta.
I don't know that much about programing but I think it would be pre-alpha build? BG3 isn't at the stage to have demo (snippit of finished product) nor is unlikely to be feature complete (beta).

As to what you can expect from EA check the store discription of the item you purchased.
Quote
“Leading up to release you can expect a plethora of incremental improvements and new features to be added to the game, as well as the inclusion of new classes and races. The 1.0 release will include the full game including Acts 2 and 3.”
As every early adopters we will get to play test the whole game once 1.0 drops. Hopefully, if needed, there will be extra polish added with console ports.

I don't know what you're talking about, and my english vocabulary isn't nearly vast enough to allow me to repeat myself a third time in a way that wouldn't sound redundant.

Also, plethora means a whole fucking lot.

laughed pretty hard at this...

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Originally Posted by <Redacted>
<Redacted>

Yeah i believe they don't really care about any of the Forum Feedback and Swen is just doing his own thing as always. Felt like that from the Start. That's why i'll never get stuff like Proper Inventory Buttons and it's already 3 Games in.

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I stopped playing after my initial playthrough on release and came back to it now as well.

Needless to say I haven't been impressed, all the annoying bugs are still there. Disappearing actors in dialogues/cutscenes, bodies that mysteriously end up in other areas other than where they fell including in the air and below the ground. And no real additional content worth mentioning. New underdark region? Who cares? My characters are still locked 1 level below being slightly useful.

The biggest problem I, and it seems everyone has, is the level cap and this is not without reason. RPG's are about development of character and depth but without one the whole genre loses its allure. I would take it one step farther with what i have read about the proposed level cap being 10.... 10 is a nothing level and the whole game is likely to feel exactly like it does now, especially with the implementation of draconic origins for sorcerors.... who plays that path without the ultimate goal getting to at least 14, ideally 18 or 20.

In short with such a small portion of the game unlocked at the moment, and such a low proposed level cap, there is eternally going to be balance issues and/or the same feeling people have now of it just being boring.


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Originally Posted by Montiness
I stopped playing after my initial playthrough on release and came back to it now as well.

Needless to say I haven't been impressed, all the annoying bugs are still there. Disappearing actors in dialogues/cutscenes, bodies that mysteriously end up in other areas other than where they fell including in the air and below the ground. And no real additional content worth mentioning. New underdark region? Who cares? My characters are still locked 1 level below being slightly useful.

The biggest problem I, and it seems everyone has, is the level cap and this is not without reason. RPG's are about development of character and depth but without one the whole genre loses its allure. I would take it one step farther with what i have read about the proposed level cap being 10.... 10 is a nothing level and the whole game is likely to feel exactly like it does now, especially with the implementation of draconic origins for sorcerors.... who plays that path without the ultimate goal getting to at least 14, ideally 18 or 20.

In short with such a small portion of the game unlocked at the moment, and such a low proposed level cap, there is eternally going to be balance issues and/or the same feeling people have now of it just being boring.

They are obviously going for a Low Level Cap because they don't want to work on the content they would have to do if they went as high as 20. That's the sole reason but no one would come out and say it as it is. Like i would care waiting 3 years as long as they did all Content but i'm not handling their Deadlines nor Budget either.

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Gosh, don't you have another game to play? Whenever I see people complaining that the EA ONLY gave them 200 hours of joy and they demand more content ASAP, I tend to think life must be miserable.

Releasing more content now will only serve to delay the final product and spoil/burn out the players.

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Originally Posted by JDCrenton
They are obviously going for a Low Level Cap because they don't want to work on the content they would have to do if they went as high as 20. That's the sole reason but no one would come out and say it as it is. Like i would care waiting 3 years as long as they did all Content but i'm not handling their Deadlines nor Budget either.

personally i see it as they're already planning expansions, because everyone does these days.... create a game then break it in to dlcs for more money instead of making a product worth the money.... they don't even need to worry about manufacturing costs anymore, or ensuring a game is finished before release and that's the mindset. If there's a problem we might do something about it after we have their money, not we have to make sure it's as good as it can be or people won't buy it and we lose money.

Comes down to the ambivalent mindset of the consumer becasue they figure if it needs fixing they'll fix it instead of there's no way to fix it, like it was before the internet, and development has been half arsed across the board since.


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Originally Posted by Montiness
Originally Posted by JDCrenton
They are obviously going for a Low Level Cap because they don't want to work on the content they would have to do if they went as high as 20. That's the sole reason but no one would come out and say it as it is. Like i would care waiting 3 years as long as they did all Content but i'm not handling their Deadlines nor Budget either.

personally i see it as they're already planning expansions, because everyone does these days.... create a game then break it in to dlcs for more money instead of making a product worth the money.... they don't even need to worry about manufacturing costs anymore, or ensuring a game is finished before release and that's the mindset. If there's a problem we might do something about it after we have their money, not we have to make sure it's as good as it can be or people won't buy it and we lose money.

Comes down to the ambivalent mindset of the consumer becasue they figure if it needs fixing they'll fix it instead of there's no way to fix it, like it was before the internet, and development has been half arsed across the board since.

Could be that they are following that Typical Scummy AAA Business Practice, but in my opinion Games like Pathfinder are pretty much worth it with the amount of Content taken into Consideration even without the DLC. It's just that Larian has been going Slow as Snails with everything and Time is Money. Take for instance CD Projekt Red that couldn't even deliver with that Budget and Massive Time Frame despite all their Barking, Overly Exagerated Publicity and Shallow Promises. Underdelivering also hurts a Company's Rep pretty Badly.

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Originally Posted by Montiness
The biggest problem I, and it seems everyone has, is the level cap and this is not without reason.

I think most people, who have any knowledge about 5e will tell you, that the level cap is fine. The things that are great about the later levels is that you pretty much are a demigod and can easily break some parts of reality. I'd say levels 12 or 14 are probably caps. Implementing the higher could only feasibly be done via cutting a lot of the best things for them. The exciting spells and stuff are things that don't really translate good into a video game.

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Originally Posted by IrenicusBG3
Gosh, don't you have another game to play? Whenever I see people complaining that the EA ONLY gave them 200 hours of joy and they demand more content ASAP, I tend to think life must be miserable.

Releasing more content now will only serve to delay the final product and spoil/burn out the players.

You are not totally wrong i guess, but most people are not as rational as this. When something does not work as intended or hoped, emotions come into play. Rapping up such an amount of playtime includes the hope to find bugs or be able to change something for the better in the next patch, up to the finished game.

So keeping content from players that willingly bought an unfinished game to help making the release sucessfull, is counterproductive. Larian has a lot of willing and paying gametesters with expierience of the D&D ruleset and lore on its hands and they hardly use them.

That way a lot of sugesstions and bugs will stay in the game at release which in turn will make part of the players be unhappy and stop playing. And also beeing more careful with future larian games or EAs.

In one thing i totally disagree:

New content will not burn out or spoil anything here. Why would it? Most of the players here WANT to be part of the development. I have never seen such a busy forum for an EA game with such a low amount of content. I do not understand how the risks cannot be obvious. It has happened to developers more than once

in the past. And always you read later "had they done this" " had they better communicated". No delveloper seems to really learn overmuch from that.


And going to play other games due to lack of new expieriences can also lead to loss of players. There will be some that do not come back. And if you say "let them leave" you have understood nothing.

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Originally Posted by JDCrenton
They are obviously going for a Low Level Cap because they don't want to work on the content they would have to do if they went as high as 20.
No, that's precisely what was said - in the two part RPS interview, I believe. They found content for level 10plus (I think it was also the first time I heard they plan to go somewhere beyond 10) to be enough work for this project.

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Originally Posted by KingTiki
Originally Posted by Montiness
The biggest problem I, and it seems everyone has, is the level cap and this is not without reason.

I think most people, who have any knowledge about 5e will tell you, that the level cap is fine. The things that are great about the later levels is that you pretty much are a demigod and can easily break some parts of reality. I'd say levels 12 or 14 are probably caps. Implementing the higher could only feasibly be done via cutting a lot of the best things for them. The exciting spells and stuff are things that don't really translate good into a video game.


Pretty much a demigod streches it a bit laugh. There are enemies in the rules that still can singlehandedly wipe out a party of lvl 20 adventurers (at least up till 3e, after that i know not much). Does the Tarrasque still exist? laugh

Its a lot harder to come up with a story for that though.

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Challenge ratings.... most of the creatures so far in game have a 0 or 1/4 challenge rating. Anyone who says level 10 is fine is deluded or never played bg II.

Here's a little comparison for you as to how terribly bad level 10 for the third game in the series is.

https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Experience_Tables


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Originally Posted by Montiness
Challenge ratings.... most of the creatures so far in game have a 0 or 1/4 challenge rating. Anyone who says level 10 is fine is deluded or never played bg II.

Here's a little comparison for you as to how terribly bad level 10 for the third game in the series is.

https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Experience_Tables

I have always hated the idea that lcl 10 is the end. BUT we live in a world where DLCs are the way to go and i can't imagine a game this big will end without at least having one or 2 of them. So maybe they add more levels with those...who knows.

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Give Battle Generator. Players design battles and other battle. Not a bad way to spend time while waiting the full release.

I feel sorry for EAers if this game isnt coming out in 2-3 year.

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Originally Posted by colinl8
Originally Posted by KingTiki
From the perspective of a software developer I see no real issues here. The thing is that Larian wants to deploy builds that are stable obviously, so they cannot simply push anything they work on it into every new patch. This is why a lot of things seem to move very slowly (aside from things like graphics and very general systems).

Word. It's really, really hard to convey how difficult it is build, test, and deploy any moderately-complex software project, how every change can have fractal implications on things you would have assumed are completely unrelated. Making change is hard. Not that it's impossible or shouldn't be done, but it's hard.

Locking down EA to a very small set of content in order to facilitate the work we don't have insight into is a perfectly reasonable decision.

I think there's a marketing aspect as well. Think of the reviewers sharpening their keyboards for full release. "After long wait, Baldur's Gate 3, with thousands of early-access players salivating for the full release, is finally here!" versus "For the thousands of early access players, while there will be some new surprises in this release, much of it will be familiar."

For $60 we get to play some content, respond to it, and be part of the marketing for full release. I'm fine with that. I only started playing like the week patch 5 came, so the only real change I've seen is 5 -> 6, and those have all been great changes. Based on what I've read about previous iterations, there's been continuous, albeit perceived-slow, improvement. I'm not concerned about a let down when we finally get to full release.

You're part of development, I wish it was Marketting. Marketting is more fun.

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