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#796241 25/10/21 08:28 AM
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Maybe i am too stupid but i fail to achieve my desired outcome with the Owlbear.

Playing a Druid and using charm on the owlbear made me hope i can bring it to lie down and let me remove the spearhead from its eye and heal it up.
Charming it did not change the dialog in any way for me and i can only use my options to to avoid a fight.

I even tried talking it up alone as a cat, but wild shape cat seems not to be able to talk to animals at all.

Owlbears should have enough intelligence to let this happen, especially charmed.

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I am pretty sure your choice is to fight or not fight, when it comes to the fate of the mother. That’s it.

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I tried everything with him and I have only been able to fight or leave.

I even never understood how to make the owlbear cub a follower...

Last edited by Maximuuus; 25/10/21 10:29 AM.
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Owlbears don't have the capacity to reason to come to that desired outcome. They attack what they see, don't know the concept required for them to come to that outcome, the ability to stop them attacking is all you should get. Feel free to look up terms such as unaligned and owlbear through 5e to understand why what you wish is not available.


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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
I tried everything with him and I have only been able to fight or leave.

I even never understood how to make the owlbear cub a follower...

Kill the mother, leave the owlbear cub alive. Once off camera it will get captured by goblins.

Then later play the Chicken Chasing game in the goblin camp, talk to the Owlbear there (now filling the role as the chicken) and convince it to come to your camp (can be done with either Animal Handling or animal talking, iirc). You'll also have to convince the goblin who runs the chase game to let it go.


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Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
Playing a Druid and using charm on the owlbear made me hope i can bring it to lie down and let me remove the spearhead from its eye and heal it up.
Charming it did not change the dialog in any way for me and i can only use my options to to avoid a fight.

I even tried talking it up alone as a cat, but wild shape cat seems not to be able to talk to animals at all.

Owlbears should have enough intelligence to let this happen, especially charmed.
I totally see where this idea came from ... but note that Owlbear is not a beast, but monstrocity ... meaning "something Druids should try to destroy on sight and certainly should not heal". wink
Yes, i know talking with animals should not work on it and it does ... but Swen himself told us that they decide to break the rule here, bcs that talking was too great in their eyes to take away.

Last time i tryed cat it was able to talk to animals ... so maybe there is some bug in this patch.

I mean sure ... Owlbear should have enough Intelligence to allow you help him ...
But our characters should have enough Intelligence to not approach Owlbear that is defending its cub. laugh

Yet i agree ... that option would be fine, but i would make it another dialogue trap to be honest ...
You try to remove the spear > owlbear screams in pain > cub comes to help his hurted mother > owlbear sights the cup and attack. laugh


Short coment on my English. smile

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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This makes animal friendship totally useless.

The spell descrition states it convinces the animal that you mean no harm. and it fails on INT 4+. So it is especially for beasts like this. And the ability to speak to it should make us able to make clear what we plan to do. The owl bear even realizes that it has something in its eye.

For the situation to be a fight or flight situation, the speech of the owlbear would need to be a lot more primal.

But well, if its game design, what can i say more...

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Originally Posted by Montiness
Owlbears don't have the capacity to reason to come to that desired outcome. They attack what they see, don't know the concept required for them to come to that outcome, the ability to stop them attacking is all you should get. Feel free to look up terms such as unaligned and owlbear through 5e to understand why what you wish is not available.

I'm not disputing your claim, but
the owlbear cub lets you heal its leg in a later scene, given an animal handling check. It feels like the cub's mother should have a handle on that concept.


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Originally Posted by Montiness
Owlbears don't have the capacity to reason to come to that desired outcome. They attack what they see, don't know the concept required for them to come to that outcome, the ability to stop them attacking is all you should get. Feel free to look up terms such as unaligned and owlbear through 5e to understand why what you wish is not available.

Letting someone who means you no harm heal you is no moral decision. And the INT score should make basic reasoning possible. So my take from the Moms side would be: Here is a friend (animal friendship) that can lessen my pain and makes recovery faster. Even if it sees the injury as not so bad. And a healed up Mom can better
protect its cub. In addition to that 2 eyes are better than one smile

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Owlbears for 5e at least, should be neutral beasts (or magical beast). They can be trained, but are pretty aggressive by default, which is the very reason some creatures really want them to train up.

In this case, you have the owlbear cave where usually there are the male and female. The male is missing, but still an egg, which means it was likely recent. You have an injured, newly single mother defending her cub and egg.

I think it's reasonable to expect any mother could be hypersensitive at that point about defending her child over her own wellbeing. I wouldn't expect her to be thinking logically about planning for her children more long-term. If she is bitter over prior experiences with humanoids, the loss of the father, her children in danger, I think the situation is completely appropriate. I think her reaction should be to want the strangers to leave them in peace, even if ultimately it means she might and likely would still die. Her own death isn't at the front of her mind, it's the immediate threat.

I don't see anything wrong with the current options and liked it!

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Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
The spell descrition states it convinces the animal that you mean no harm. and it fails on INT 4+. So it is especially for beasts like this. And the ability to speak to it should make us able to make clear what we plan to do. The owl bear even realizes that it has something in its eye.
This is exactly there you misstake is. wink

I repeat:
Owlbear is a Monstrocity ... not a Beast. wink
https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/owlbear

And here is your spell. wink
https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/animal-friendship

Few examples of beasts in game:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/brown-bear
https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/wolf
https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/spider


Short coment on my English. smile

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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Then, by all means, animal friendship should not be castable on it. And also the later befriending of the cub impossible. so we are back to a game specific decision. Pity.

But even monsters need friends frown. Frankenstein said so :P

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
The spell descrition states it convinces the animal that you mean no harm. and it fails on INT 4+. So it is especially for beasts like this. And the ability to speak to it should make us able to make clear what we plan to do. The owl bear even realizes that it has something in its eye.
This is exactly there you misstake is. wink

I repeat:
Owlbear is a Monstrocity ... not a Beast. wink

Sorry, I realized I was wrong about it being a beast. You're correct there. For whatever reason, I swore it was listed as a beast this round. With all the options, I can see fudging the rules for speak with animals to work on certain monstrosities like this, but limiting the control of it.

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Then, by all means, animal friendship should not be castable on it. And also the later befriending of the cub impossible. so we are back to a game specific decision. Pity.

Monstrosities were befriended and tamed/trained in Forgotten Realms. Even if animal friendship doesn't work on it, it still happens in the rest of the lore.

Last edited by Lobstercorgi; 25/10/21 08:43 PM.
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Well,

i have read a lot of forgotten realms novels. (nearly all that are out there i guess) and in those you will find plenty of stuff that is not covered or possible if you strictly adhere to the rules. GM's /Player's freedom. If i remember correctly somewhere in the rulebooks it encourages changing the rules to suit your playstyle.

They are twisting the rules so much, but here they obviously draw a line...

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owlbears have one thought process, attack, kill, eat, sleep. That's the monstrosity. There's no room in that for anything else. Haven't read any forgotten realms or dragonlance in a long time, but the only monstrosities I can recall being enslaved were the hook horrors to the illithids and that was due to the overwhelming power of illithid psionics, not a level 1 spell.


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Originally Posted by Montiness
owlbears have one thought process, attack, kill, eat, sleep. That's the monstrosity. There's no room in that for anything else. Haven't read any forgotten realms or dragonlance in a long time, but the only monstrosities I can recall being enslaved were the hook horrors to the illithids and that was due to the overwhelming power of illithid psionics, not a level 1 spell.

Griffons = Griffon Calvary, Worgs = Orcs/Goblins, Hippogriffs = ridden and eggs sold for mounts, Fire Toads = Efreeti, Ice Toads = White Dragons...

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worgs retain pack mentality as dogs have, griffons have intelligence to reason, hippogriffs the same, fire and ice toads are bound by fear, something the owlbear doesn't know.


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besides none of them are classified as monstrosities


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and all of them have an alignment.... not unaligned


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Originally Posted by Montiness
owlbears have one thought process, attack, kill, eat, sleep. That's the monstrosity. There's no room in that for anything else. Haven't read any forgotten realms or dragonlance in a long time, but the only monstrosities I can recall being enslaved were the hook horrors to the illithids and that was due to the overwhelming power of illithid psionics, not a level 1 spell.

Well,

this was cleared up already and you are right. Yet they keep the rather civilized talk with mommy and even let the cub join us later. Meaning the rules are bent already (also mentioned above). Let the rules be rules for one, it does not sit well with me to have a creature with INT to talk but no capacity to reason?

Unaligned it may be but that only makes it a creature not knowing morale. We have enough humans on this planet that do not have anything that could be called morale. Thats not an issue of intelligence. Intelligence is the capacity to think and reason to a degree. I would need to look up what a score of 3 counts for. Less then 3
usually makes a creature unable to even speak.

This is just a hypothetical discussion anway. I would have loved it to NOT kill the owlbear. First because i like animals, thats off the table, it's "just" a monster so i can slay away without remorse (how discriminating). And second is getting the spear without having to kill it. Also off the table...monster etc. you know :P

Pity anyway.

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