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Most of the battles in the first act are more or less balanced, but I did not understand how to defeat the gith patrol even with the help of ogres. This is very difficult at the maximum level 4, which is available in Early Access, might it make sense to lower the difficulty? Since it is impossible to avoid the battle if we approach this patrol.

Come on, destroying everyone in the Druids Grove without the help of the goblins was easier than this patrol. I am sure that it is also easier to destroy the entire goblin camp than this patrol, because there are too many high level enemies in one place.

If the game plans to escape from the battlefield in this section of the path for most players, then it is worth adding references to this in the game


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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
If the game plans to escape from the battlefield in this section of the path for most players, then it is worth adding references to this in the game

I'm not sure exactly what you're saying, but for sure your campions are really, really clear about not fighting them. I think I recall ending that peacefully once, but a long time ago so I forget the exact dialog choices.

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There is multiple dialogue choices that end this encounter peacefully ... if you win the roll ofcourse. laugh

I still believe its quite absurd that there is no option to make this encounter even harder by including the dragon. :-/
Especialy if you litteraly tell to Kith'rak that the weapon he seeks is in your possesion. laugh


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It's difficult because they are overtuned ie not really level 4. Hold Person / Hideous laughter are the way to go.


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Is it Hardcore if i use Barrels? The one Explosion to rule them all.

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I'm not sure if you were saying this, but uh, I think I agree. I think it's annoying that I've got La'Zel freaking out every time I don't go and find these guys, then I pretty much have to give up Shadowheart to stay out of battle (because La'zel can't freaking lie). It's just annoying. I can't turn to La'zel and say, "Hey, in an alternate timeline we go and talk to them and the creed you hold to they apparently don't think is super important and they DESTROY all of us, so let's go around and not bother them right now" It's just something I would like more options on. I'm even cool with them taking us back and imprisoning us for non-cooperation. I vaguely remember something like that happening in BGII with some Mind Flayers...

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Because you can push them down from the platform and turn an impossible encounter into a trivial cheese fest.

Personally, I think it's really poor combat design when you have both extremes in the same encounter.

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The hardest part in this Battle with the Giths is within your disciplined or not disciplined Brains.
Do you want to cheese or not is the question here.
I find it hard not to cheese a bit at least. By using opportunities to shove when possible and crouch when possible. Also Area effects like Grease are great.
everyone of you know what i mean, we where all down this road several times.

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I dunno ... it dont seems so hard to me. O_o
Especialy with two casters and LOTS of damage from Shatter. :3


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I managed for the first time to do this fight with no cheese (no sleep potions, no barrels, no highground, stealth abuse) I did however call in the help of Ogres, that soaked some damage for me. Would be dead otherwise I think.

However, with their help I found the encounter very enjoyable. I do think the artificial boost to Giths is frustrating - it's way out of line to not be jarring. Doing the fight using spells, scrolls and personal buffs and not dealing with shove, highground nonesense or abusing stealth was satisfying. Only reinforced me in conviction that if Larian dumped their homebrew it would be a far more satisfying game to play.

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Originally Posted by TheHero
The hardest part in this Battle with the Giths is within your disciplined or not disciplined Brains.
Do you want to cheese or not is the question here.
I find it hard not to cheese a bit at least. By using opportunities to shove when possible and crouch when possible. Also Area effects like Grease are great.
everyone of you know what i mean, we where all down this road several times.
Of course you cheese. The PC's are intelligent adventurers who would milk every resource and tactic to their fullest potential to win. If you are at all roleplaying them, they will cheese to the max. That's why in an RPG gameplay and narrative can't be disconnected.

Also, if I as a player have to consciously play worse, all victories are hollow. Self-control doesn't lead to anything positive in this context no matter how many times someone from the "if you don't like it, don't use it" -camp posts their mantra.

Larian are also throwing impossible enemies at you because they want you to cheese, or exploit some gimmick. But all that does is make normal encounters meaningless.

Cheese doesn't belong in RPG's. Unless it's clever and well matured. Larian cheese isn't.

Last edited by 1varangian; 27/10/21 05:00 PM.
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Originally Posted by 1varangian
Originally Posted by TheHero
The hardest part in this Battle with the Giths is within your disciplined or not disciplined Brains.
Do you want to cheese or not is the question here.
I find it hard not to cheese a bit at least. By using opportunities to shove when possible and crouch when possible. Also Area effects like Grease are great.
everyone of you know what i mean, we where all down this road several times.
Of course you cheese. The PC's are intelligent adventurers who would milk every resource and tactic to their fullest potential to win. If you are at all roleplaying them, they will cheese to the max. That's why in an RPG gameplay and narrative can't be disconnected.

Also, if I as a player have to consciously play worse, all victories are hollow. Self-control doesn't lead to anything positive in this context no matter how many times someone from the "if you don't like it, don't use it" -camp posts their mantra.

Larian are also throwing impossible enemies at you because they want you to cheese, or exploit some gimmick. But all that does is make normal encounters meaningless.

Cheese doesn't belong in RPG's. Unless it's clever and well matured. Larian cheese isn't.

I disagree here. How is it different from kitting strong mob one character while the others shoot him from a distance.

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If this was a PVP game then yeah fix the cheese. But it's a PVE single player/Co-Op game so if a certain play-style seems wrong to you then...don't do it.

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Balanced? Tbh the combat is a joke in how easy it is, not a single encounter in this game is even remotely hard and the reason is that you are absoloutly showered in scrolls, potions, magical equipment, exploding barrrels, magical arrows, owerpowered pets and full arange of spells and abilities before every fight, theres no reason to play it safe, just walk into an ecounter and unload the monty hall way, if thats not enough theres alawys the cheesy tactics like abusing ladders or stealt/invisibillity etc.

if anything Larian need to scale down on all the owerpowered gear/consumes availabe or put in a difficulty settting so we can get a real challenge.

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Originally Posted by BraveSirRobin
If this was a PVP game then yeah fix the cheese. But it's a PVE single player/Co-Op game so if a certain play-style seems wrong to you then...don't do it.
As someone mentioned above, BG3 encounters are balanced around abusing cheese - that's not something one can opt out, at the moment. Badly balanced game, is still badly balanced game. Sure single-player doesn't require such fine tuning as multiplayer, but requires some baseline competency. BG3 has still ways to go. See high ground - good concept but it was too powerful before. Now it's still is something to consider, contributes to combat, but doesn't overwhelm every other aspect of it - in other words it's better balanced, and therefore - fun.

For example, this was encouter I enjoyed most in my playtrhough, because "push" wasn't a factor. In many fights however, I can't help but endure push. Even if I refuse to use it, then enemy will use it on every bloody move, and yes having to make sure that there is no instant death pit nowhere within a screenview of any of my companions kinda kills combat for me.

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You have to fight them? I've talked my way through that twice. No cheese required.

But since we're talking about it, what is the shove action for, if not to shove someone/something? What are the spells in one's spell book for, if not to use them? "but barrelmancy"... Yeah, I've never used it. I have blown up some barrels that were already in place by a mob or two, but I've never placed any, or carried a ton, literally, of them around. This isn't something that Larian invented. I never used food to heal either, not even in Skyrim. I was all the way through my first run before I learned about dipping, from the forums, and I've missed a lot of content because it never occurred to me to abuse the resting system. What is the point of destruct-able environments, if one isn't going to destruct them? Note that if we're going to complain about that here, we have to complain about it everywhere they're available, it's not like Larian invented them either.

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Originally Posted by robertthebard
But since we're talking about it, what is the shove action for, if not to shove someone/something? What are the spells in one's spell book for, if not to use them? "but barrelmancy"... Yeah, I've never used it. I have blown up some barrels that were already in place by a mob or two, but I've never placed any, or carried a ton, literally, of them around. This isn't something that Larian invented. I never used food to heal either, not even in Skyrim. I was all the way through my first run before I learned about dipping, from the forums, and I've missed a lot of content because it never occurred to me to abuse the resting system. What is the point of destruct-able environments, if one isn't going to destruct them? Note that if we're going to complain about that here, we have to complain about it everywhere they're available, it's not like Larian invented them either.

Compete agreement. Using the features that are available in a tactical way is totally reasonable. If the systems allow it, it's a tactical option one can use or not. Our characters are fighting for their lives, not competing in Olympic Adventuring

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Originally Posted by robertthebard
But since we're talking about it, what is the shove action for, if not to shove someone/something? What are the spells in one's spell book for, if not to use them? "but barrelmancy"... Yeah, I've never used it. I have blown up some barrels that were already in place by a mob or two, but I've never placed any, or carried a ton, literally, of them around. This isn't something that Larian invented. I never used food to heal either, not even in Skyrim. I was all the way through my first run before I learned about dipping, from the forums, and I've missed a lot of content because it never occurred to me to abuse the resting system. What is the point of destruct-able environments, if one isn't going to destruct them? Note that if we're going to complain about that here, we have to complain about it everywhere they're available, it's not like Larian invented them either.
Larian did invent barrelmancy - teleporting and exploding barrels was very much D:OS1&2 gameplay.

It's about balance. Shoving can be fun. Shoving someone off the cliff can be fun. Getting shoved of the cliff can be fun. Blowing someone with a barrel can be fun. Destrucatble enviroment is great, bringing map design into consideration. But it needs to reigned in. See highground. Before last patch a singular most important aspect of the combat was being on high ground. You lost a fight? You were probably on low ground - can hit your enemies, they are almost guaranteed to hit you. It got nerfed and is still very powerful, but this time you have options. I don't think barelmancy is a problem anymore - one can still abuse it, but it's not convenient. Shove is - whenever there is drop in the vacinity it is singular, most important factor to consider. Every single lost battle in my current playthrough was because an enemy shoved my party down a pit to which I wasn't even remotly near. I don't think that's good - that's boring.

Here is the problem - while some people keep claiming that unbalanced mechanics don't matter because you can just ignore them it is not how players works. If they find a simple exploit that works every time, they will just keep using it. Is it their fault? No, I don't think so. If game encourages unfun behaviour, then it has fundamental problems. It doesn't mean it's all awful, but it requires fixing.

Because: What is the objective of the Gith fight, from storytelling perspective? Is it supposed to be a even engagement? Then Larian encourages strategies, that will trivilize most content in the game making their design repetitive and boring. Is it intended to be a difficult fight, one you are not supposed to win, to build up Gith as dangerous warriors for later satisfaction when we can face them on a more even ground? Well it fails as well, as it takes basic understranding of the mechanics to trivilize the encounter.

I don't want to see any of those go (maybe surfaces, unless Larian finds a way for them to not to make concetration spells almost impossible to maintain), I just want them to become a positive additions.

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It’s a tough one alright - that the hag & accidentally aggroing half the grymforge can be a tough fight - but I think it really is how Larian get a steer on combat balance and difficulty - it becomes a bit clearer to me as the patches roll out.
I’m loving patch 6 combat - I’m not hardcore or power gamer by any means but I think patch six is around normal difficulty with some tweaking on the hardest fights.
Must admit I talked my way out of a scrap with the dialogue choices at the Gith patrol this time - previously you couldn’t …
I’m using Lazael this time though so be interesting ….best to avoid it unless you sneak in and attack outright and try to get the drop on em….

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Originally Posted by BraveSirRobin
If this was a PVP game then yeah fix the cheese. But it's a PVE single player/Co-Op game so if a certain play-style seems wrong to you then...don't do it.
Exactly!

Originally Posted by Wormerine
As someone mentioned above, BG3 encounters are balanced around abusing cheese
As someone mentioned in multiple other threats (yup, it was me laugh ) ... they are not. :P

And there is quite easy proof for this:
Is it possible to win those battles WITHOUT using so called "abusing cheese"?
Yes it is >> therefore, its not "balanced around it" ... its only that you people through the trees do not see the forest. -_-

The problem is not in the system, its in our heads ... after all, you admited that youreself:
Originally Posted by Wormerine
If they find a simple exploit that works every time, they will just keep using it.
See?
Guns dont kill people, people kill people. wink

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 28/10/21 08:32 AM.

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