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#797821 31/10/21 08:21 AM
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There are many occasions where I have used sneak to steal items when there are NPC's around. Even when successful, the NPC always seems to know that a theft has taken place and a further check is required. I can understand this where the object being stolen is in plain sight, but it also occurs when stealing from conatiners and/or bodies. How does the NPC know that gold has been taken from a dead body or that an item has been taken from a closed container?

Thois action implies that NPC's are checking every container and body as the move around.

Having succesfully hidden and take an item why is a further check necessary?

itsecman #797861 31/10/21 01:16 PM
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I think it is an EA oversight at the minute as pickpocket in general is buggy and always has been since day one. The NPC "should" require to pass a check to notice something is missing and only if said NPC is in a position to notice said theft. Stealing a bunch of gold from a pocket should get noticed very quickly while someone missing a ring off a display case should go unnoticed unless the NPC has reason to look. I can imagine this level of coding is convoluted but it could be more easily coded with regards item weight/value and story relevance. If you have a "dagger of the crusty muff" worth 2000 gp next to a "used crusty jizz sock +2" worth -1 gp an NPC should pay more attention to the valued stock etc.

In D&D it would be the GM rolling the dice so it's a hard one to quantify at a game level.

itsecman #797942 31/10/21 07:22 PM
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Yeah, I'm not liking the way thieving is working.

You pick someone's pocket. Almost immediately, you're confronted. If you try to say you didn't do it, you have to pass a DC 15 check. That seems crazy to me. Did they see the character pick the pocket? Why can't you demand they have proof? Why can't you say, "Hey, maybe you lost whatever that was an hour ago."

I get being seen and having to face a consequence. I even get it if a certain amount of value in gold coins is stolen over a certain period of time. In that case, folks might get a little more suspicious and reactive. But the way it is now, it just incentivizes save scumming, and I'm not a fan of that.

Personally, I'd like to see an overhaul done to the thieving system.

itsecman #797991 01/11/21 04:11 AM
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I haven't tried to steal anything but I do feel that Larian should tweak the stealing settings. If an npc is around, they usually will say not to touch something. I can understand with opening chest or taking an object. I find it weird that they also consider stealing if you try to read the books that an npc has. You can't take it but apparently it's wrong for just trying to read it. I believe in the beginning when the game was first released, this wasn't the case. They can keep the red symbol to indicate stealing but allow us to read the books for lore.

itsecman #798052 01/11/21 03:25 PM
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+1 that NPCs should notice a picked pocket more quickly than a picked chest/body (possibly only after you exit and re-enter the area?).

But I'd also argue for hearing radii around NPCs instead of just sight cones and/or additional guards/locks on the chests full of more valuable loot -> make the process of stealing a bit more difficult, but you're more likely to cleanly get away with it upon success.

If there are going to eventually be bookshops in the game, then it makes sense to be unable to read red-symbol books. But honestly this could just as easily be solved by any book vendor only having readable books in their wares, not lying around in the shop.

itsecman #801614 22/11/21 07:14 PM
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Well, i pickpocketed Damon, sucessfully (i always use TB mode), went away for 2 long rests, literally hours of playtime. when i came back to trade i was accused of theft. Awesome. Needs to be fixed.

Invisible works though i think.

UnknownEvil #801624 22/11/21 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
Well, i pickpocketed Damon, sucessfully (i always use TB mode), went away for 2 long rests, literally hours of playtime. when i came back to trade i was accused of theft. Awesome. Needs to be fixed.

Invisible works though i think.

Best technique seems to be to park the party off somewhere where you can just barely see Dammon from there and send the thief in solo. When they're done, they hoof it back to the party. He will notice and summon a guard who will then wander about the immediate vicinity looking for suspects for a bit and then give up. Once he gives up, you're in the clear.

fizzwick #801635 22/11/21 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by fizzwick
Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
Well, i pickpocketed Damon, sucessfully (i always use TB mode), went away for 2 long rests, literally hours of playtime. when i came back to trade i was accused of theft. Awesome. Needs to be fixed.

Invisible works though i think.

Best technique seems to be to park the party off somewhere where you can just barely see Dammon from there and send the thief in solo. When they're done, they hoof it back to the party. He will notice and summon a guard who will then wander about the immediate vicinity looking for suspects for a bit and then give up. Once he gives up, you're in the clear.

Tried and failed. got caught later anyway smirk

itsecman #801670 23/11/21 01:40 AM
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There's a fairly major bug right now with crime detection and accusation that I think was introduced in patch 6. You can break your game permanently and get crime flags stuck on your characters that will cause affinity losses just for walking close to people, and so on.

Best you can do right now is report everything that seems like it isn't working as it should, and hope they get a fix on it soon.

itsecman #801778 23/11/21 08:12 PM
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Here is another one: Before talking to Nettie, stealth, read recipe, take her mugwort and brew antidote.

I was not caught but on her way to the door (after talking) she saw the theft, ran up to my thief and accused him. Talked myself out of it but now she refuses to go into the workshop. Even if you talk to her again. So you can also break the story with this when timed right. Awesome laugh

I'll try resting, maybe she resets sometime.

Edit: Yes she does after a time. So more or less false alarm. She caught me anyway and the following conversation was different than it should be.

Last edited by UnknownEvil; 23/11/21 08:14 PM.
UnknownEvil #801806 23/11/21 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
Originally Posted by fizzwick
Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
Well, i pickpocketed Damon, sucessfully (i always use TB mode), went away for 2 long rests, literally hours of playtime. when i came back to trade i was accused of theft. Awesome. Needs to be fixed.

Invisible works though i think.

Best technique seems to be to park the party off somewhere where you can just barely see Dammon from there and send the thief in solo. When they're done, they hoof it back to the party. He will notice and summon a guard who will then wander about the immediate vicinity looking for suspects for a bit and then give up. Once he gives up, you're in the clear.

Tried and failed. got caught later anyway smirk

Ok so this is what I do and it works fine. I make a point of extinguishing the torches and fire by Dammon first so sneaking is easier. I park the party over in the sloping passage down from the druid vendor, about level with the wooden platform. Separate Astarion from the group and either cast guidance on him or give him the Rusty Necklace so he can do it himself when he gets there. Hustle over right behind Dammon and crouch. Engage turn mode, rob him blind, close the steal interface and move away, still in turn mode. Use bonus action(s) to sprint as thieves can do that starting at lvl2 for extra distance. Idea is to get as far away as possible in a turn. Then disengage turn mode and have him hustle back to the party. By the time Dammon notices and calls a guard, Astarion should be back with the group. Then watch and wait for the guard to give up and return to post. You're far enough off that the guard won't accuse you of anything and once he resets, you're all clear. Rinse/repeat as needed for cash and gear.

fizzwick #801850 24/11/21 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by fizzwick
Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
Originally Posted by fizzwick
Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
Well, i pickpocketed Damon, sucessfully (i always use TB mode), went away for 2 long rests, literally hours of playtime. when i came back to trade i was accused of theft. Awesome. Needs to be fixed.

Invisible works though i think.

Best technique seems to be to park the party off somewhere where you can just barely see Dammon from there and send the thief in solo. When they're done, they hoof it back to the party. He will notice and summon a guard who will then wander about the immediate vicinity looking for suspects for a bit and then give up. Once he gives up, you're in the clear.

Tried and failed. got caught later anyway smirk

Ok so this is what I do and it works fine. I make a point of extinguishing the torches and fire by Dammon first so sneaking is easier. I park the party over in the sloping passage down from the druid vendor, about level with the wooden platform. Separate Astarion from the group and either cast guidance on him or give him the Rusty Necklace so he can do it himself when he gets there. Hustle over right behind Dammon and crouch. Engage turn mode, rob him blind, close the steal interface and move away, still in turn mode. Use bonus action(s) to sprint as thieves can do that starting at lvl2 for extra distance. Idea is to get as far away as possible in a turn. Then disengage turn mode and have him hustle back to the party. By the time Dammon notices and calls a guard, Astarion should be back with the group. Then watch and wait for the guard to give up and return to post. You're far enough off that the guard won't accuse you of anything and once he resets, you're all clear. Rinse/repeat as needed for cash and gear.

Thats all well and good, but it is not my point to find workarounds to bug. If i want that i go buy an Invisibility potion. Less stressy :P

Thing is, if i do not get caught redhanded, i accept a reaction to the theft that is the same as when you steal invisible. The NPC talks to the Party, says something was stolen and you say "wasn't me". No rolls etc. Totally ok.

Atm even if not caught, the NPC runs straight to the Thief and accuses him, you have to either pay, roll skill, go to jail or attack. Wrong response.

UnknownEvil #801898 24/11/21 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
Thats all well and good, but it is not my point to find workarounds to bug. If i want that i go buy an Invisibility potion. Less stressy :P

Thing is, if i do not get caught redhanded, i accept a reaction to the theft that is the same as when you steal invisible. The NPC talks to the Party, says something was stolen and you say "wasn't me". No rolls etc. Totally ok.

Atm even if not caught, the NPC runs straight to the Thief and accuses him, you have to either pay, roll skill, go to jail or attack. Wrong response.

I strongly agree.

The NPC shouldn't magically know who's guilty. The guilty party member should be caught red-handed; otherwise, there's no evidence.

I understand that things might eventually escalate. The merchant might lose enough where they start to put two and two together.

"You know, I only ever get robbed when you're around. I demand that the guards search your pockets."

--then a search happens.

--and maybe the merchant starts refusing to do business with the person they're sure is the thief.

Anyway, the whole point is to make it as realistic as possible, and right now, it's not. The merchants just immediately and magically know, which defeats the whole purpose of stealth.


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