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Originally Posted by Innateagle
Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
Originally Posted by Innateagle
Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
I see. Thanks for the information. Even if said theories about Gale don't turn out to be true. He definitely did something where Mystra ended up leaving him. I do wonder what was so bad but of course we have to wait for more content.

Pretty sure Gale himself states she simply got bored of him, which is what lead him to trying to impress her by researching Netherese magic.


Didn't he try to cast a spell first and he failed, then she left him? I think that's what he said because he was trying to impress her.

Nope, you got that backwards.

Okay he didn't cast a spell but he did seek to impress her but she dismissed him. He doesn't elaborate on what really happened. He lost her favor somehow. The question is why. We will have to wait for more content to find out what happened.

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
I don't understand the constant need for "evidence" for someone giving their opinion on their observation of a character. I have to admit that I'm starting to feel a little attacked here. I had a same situation with two other people. This is getting ridiculous. You and everyone else can have any opinion on a character but the farthest I'll go is ask why? For example, someone mention Shadowheart possibly being a Selune follower brainwashed to to think she follows Shar. Reason? She constantly expresses disgust every time she sees a Selune statue. I am fine with that reason. I don't understand why my reason or so unbelievable. It's actually unfair.
Of course you need evidence for your opinion of a character. All opinions are formed by something, and it helps others to understand your opinion when you explain that something. I've said multiple times that your opinion is a perfectly fine one to have, but others' opinions (who are just considering Gale's actions and dialogue in BG3) are just as valid.

Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
Again, there is nothing wrong with using other sources to make a point. The problem is you don't like what I have to say or my opinion for that matter. I gave my opinion and my reason for that based from the game itself. That wasn't good enough, so I looked for another source to make a point for my previous reason. That also wasn't good enough. So, what gives? If we are talking about a character that maybe you don't like and you give a basic reason, and I tell you "Oh no, you need to give me a some sensible evidence for your reason." That's asking a little too much. I should be fine with what you said.

I gave my main reason for making a speculation of Gale possibly being a deceiver. For some reason, that was unacceptable. I feel like I'm in court pleading my case. This is ridiculous.

(Sorry, if I'm coming off strong but I'm getting tired of this.)
I'm sorry, but you're a little bit playing the victim here. I didn't say I dislike your opinion. In fact, multiple times I've said it's okay to hold the opinion that Gale might not be trustworthy, that it's fine to speculate so, and that it's not unlikely that Gale will turn on us eventually. Taking the other companions' evilness, Larian design decisions, and typical story tropes, sure he could very well turn out to be more evil than presented and be a Solas-like character. I think it's likely he will.

I'm just trying to explain why you've gotten into this situation with multiple people: some people (not just you: I'm not trying to single you out, you're just the most frequent poster ITT) are trying to speculate about Gale's possible storylines, whereas others are discussing Gale solely as he is in-game. There is nothing wrong with using other sources to make a point, but any point made using outside sources is ~irrelevant to people who are examining the in-game character without considering outside context. And no amount of additional other sources will change that.

You're allowed to hold any opinion you want. But similarly, others are allowed to hold their opinions regardless of what you think or how many different arguments you present if they don't find them convincing. And when two sides are talking past each other, ofc people aren't going to change their opinions and are going to get frustrated that the other side isn't getting it.

I'm not playing the victim. I'm not sure if you understood my other responses. I accept the opinion of others that claim Gale won't change or don't think he's likely to but what I'm saying is that when I give my opinion, why is it expected of me to go above and beyond to defend my opinion? I haven't ask that of anyone here. The only thing I have asked is "Why do you think that way? You don't think this is possible? ect. Whatever answer the person gives is fine. That's still their opinion. This was never meant to be a debate or heated discussion. It's supposed to be fun and get to know each others points of view. Like I said in a post, we can elaborate but it should not go this far and to make look we're in court pleading a case.

Last edited by Lady Avyna; 04/11/21 04:52 PM.
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About the Shadowheart is a Selunite theory: I had an interesting conversation with her, when her hand started glowing. As a sorcerer, you have a special dialogue option and she basically says something about how that light is familiar to her - I mean, that could mean a lot of things, but I had to think of that theory, when I heard it.
The new lines, they gave Shadowheart, really made her much more endearing to me. SHe was my favorite before, but now, a lot of things make more sense. And I do like, that you finalyl get a glimpse at what the artifact is capable of.


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Originally Posted by fylimar
About the Shadowheart is a Selunite theory: I had an interesting conversation with her, when her hand started glowing. As a sorcerer, you have a special dialogue option and she basically says something about how that light is familiar to her - I mean, that could mean a lot of things, but I had to think of that theory, when I heard it.
The new lines, they gave Shadowheart, really made her much more endearing to me. SHe was my favorite before, but now, a lot of things make more sense. And I do like, that you finalyl get a glimpse at what the artifact is capable of.

Exactly and to add to that theory, Shadowheart also says she doesn't have her memories. If she happens to be a Selunite, I wonder what happened. There is definitely something mysterious going one. It's one of the reason why I like her character because there is a level of mystery around her.

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Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
Okay he didn't cast a spell but he did seek to impress her but she dismissed him. He doesn't elaborate on what really happened. He lost her favor somehow. The question is why. We will have to wait for more content to find out what happened.

From how he phrases it, Mystra neither dismissed him nor started ignoring him for any particular reason. She simply got bored of her human pastime, he tried to win her back by messing with Netherese magic, fucked up, and she kept ignoring him. Very greek of her, but what god isn't fickle.

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Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
Originally Posted by fylimar
About the Shadowheart is a Selunite theory: I had an interesting conversation with her, when her hand started glowing. As a sorcerer, you have a special dialogue option and she basically says something about how that light is familiar to her - I mean, that could mean a lot of things, but I had to think of that theory, when I heard it.
The new lines, they gave Shadowheart, really made her much more endearing to me. SHe was my favorite before, but now, a lot of things make more sense. And I do like, that you finalyl get a glimpse at what the artifact is capable of.

Exactly and to add to that theory, Shadowheart also says she doesn't have her memories. If she happens to be a Selunite, I wonder what happened. There is definitely something mysterious going one. It's one of the reason why I like her character because there is a level of mystery around her.

I think, according to lore, it isn't that uncommon, that Shar worshippers have their memories taken, but in this context, there is certainly a lot of potential story in it.


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It is odd that SH had her memories wiped. Like, how would that help her with her mission? Maybe wiping memories would be helpful for deep cover, but once she got the artefact the memory block should have been removed to help her successfully escape with it...?

And her deep-down opinions (e.g., feeling happy that the tieflings were saved) do indicate some base desire to do good, which is at odds with a Sharran philosophy.

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
It is odd that SH had her memories wiped. Like, how would that help her with her mission? Maybe wiping memories would be helpful for deep cover, but once she got the artefact the memory block should have been removed to help her successfully escape with it...?

And her deep-down opinions (e.g., feeling happy that the tieflings were saved) do indicate some base desire to do good, which is at odds with a Sharran philosophy.
not sure if you know the theory. She did not get memory wiped willingly. A lot of datamined and existing content suggested that she's a Seluner who was kidnapped and brainwashed into a Sharran.

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Originally Posted by Sozz
I was thinking about the theory I've seen that Shadowheart was a Selunite brainwashed to go on a suicide mission for Shar, and how she mentions her memories will be returned to her in BG, but I might have understood it incorrectly. I was assuming she would have been a Selunite recently brainwashed to go on this mission but now I'm wondering if the mostly nice person we know from the EA is a result of all her memories as a Shar cultist being taken, leaving behind the person she was before being broken into Shar worship, a personality potentially many years old, many years of very unpleasant things.

This would set up the potential for a drastic character shift later in the story, we'll potentially be dealing with a very different person, possibly one more upfront with their alignment. I'm not sure how well this kind of twist could play out, especially with SH as a potential PC. I guess this was a bit more obvious to most people, and I don't know if the data-miners have weighed in.

I was thinking about this the other day too. Memory manipulation could make for some very interesting story beats.

It also made me think of this SNL skit but with Sharran commandos

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Originally Posted by ALexws
not sure if you know the theory. She did not get memory wiped willingly. A lot of datamined and existing content suggested that she's a Seluner who was kidnapped and brainwashed into a Sharran.
I vaguely know the theory and yeah that's what I was suggesting. It doesn't make that much sense to get her (originally Sharran) memory wiped in prep for a (also Sharran) mission -> ergo there must be something else to consider. Unknown information that makes this memory wipe make more sense, such as SH being a captured Selunite.

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Originally Posted by ALexws
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
It is odd that SH had her memories wiped. Like, how would that help her with her mission? Maybe wiping memories would be helpful for deep cover, but once she got the artefact the memory block should have been removed to help her successfully escape with it...?

And her deep-down opinions (e.g., feeling happy that the tieflings were saved) do indicate some base desire to do good, which is at odds with a Sharran philosophy.
not sure if you know the theory. She did not get memory wiped willingly. A lot of datamined and existing content suggested that she's a Seluner who was kidnapped and brainwashed into a Sharran.

I didn't know, that was datamined, but it does make a lot of sense imo.


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Not sure it's a 'theory' when it's datamined, more like spoilers.

I don't think the memory wipe is as extensive as a total alignment change, especially considering how she mentions Sharran torture techniques. Did anyone else think about Atton Rand's storyline from KotOR:II when she was talking about that?

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You know, i'd much prefer it if she was just a regular follower of Shar who gets her memory wiped after every mission because Shar. I just think it'd be more interesting if she was just a kid who fell in with the wrong crowd (her background is urchin) and spiraled from there.

But then again, that's not very snowflake so yeah, it's pretty likely she'll join the Chosen gang alongside Gale and Karlach. Gotta wonder if any of the writers noticed trend.

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That's basically what my theory was about, Shadowheart, orphan, takes up with cult, years pass and she becomes more and more influence by them until she's sent on a mission with most of her specific memories taken but her devotion left. So, we're seeing a older version of SH who hasn't been around for a while

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Gale does seem a bit shifty, but then all mages are, so I'll cut him some slack. He is upstanding and reasonable enough to gain my dwarven cleric's respect, and I sense the potential for great friendhip.

Wyll is great as well - he might've made a poor decision in the past, but his heart is in the right place, and it would be a good thing to help him fulfill his contract and sever his ties with the Hells.

Now Shadowheart is a cunning and manipulative woman with a ton of emotional baggage - I'll keep her as far as possible from my party.

Laezel is a strong, honorable warrior, but she comes from a cruel and vicious culture - not a long-term party material as well.

And Astarion is Astarion - that beast can seek shelter in some other camp, he will not find it with my group.

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We've talked to death the companions that we have, but not much about the one's that we will probably get, namely Halsin and Karlach. You don't get to know much about either, but I can tell that I will almost certainly like Halsin better than any current companion other than maybe Shadowheart, so he will replace one of the others. And the same with Karlach, we know next to nothing about her, but in the little interaction we get, I think she will end up being part of my party as well.

A couple of other thoughts here, I remember that I've had Shadowheart with me in the Blighted Village when you explore the school there. I seem to remember she gets something like a memory of the place and I wouldn't be surprised if later we find out she was one of the 'missing' children from the poster on the wall. Also, one of the things that makes me wonder about both Asterion and Gale was that they seemed open to taking Raphael's offer, so if you don't keep your approval with them, I wouldn't be surprised if they end up taking the deal and we end up fighting them at some point. I wonder if the soul coins end up coming into play before Act 1 ends, maybe as the way to buy your way out of getting the tadpoles removed.

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Originally Posted by Kethlar
I will almost certainly like Halsin better than any current companion
up

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I'm really excited for Karlach. I expect to like her.
Is it confirmed, that Halsin will be a companion too? I mean, he would be great as the druid companion.


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I don't think Haslin is confirmed, but he does have dialog that says that he wants to go with you to the towers and he ends up at your camp after you rescue him. So, yeah, I'm like 99.9% positive he's in. Karlach says that she can't join until you reach Baldur's Gate, so she's probably a Act 2 companion.

I was seriously considering playing my MC as a Druid, and I still might, but I am enjoying playing as a Sorcerer more than i anticipated so I might go that route. However, after starting the thread about how to play Wyll as a Warlock, I'm sorta intrigued about trying out that class since I don't particularly like the Wyll character.

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Karlach leaving and not joining you right away is lame, imo.

She has a tadpole. Everyone and their grandmother is already after you, and her, because you are all infected. You're all going the same way. Why would she NOT join you?

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