Either way - the phrase in question has been direct linked in a thread you've actively participating in. You know, unequivocally, that it was said, so it was wrong of you to cast aspersions on its authenticity.
I see ...
Well, as many other people im sure, i also dont read everything in every topic i write something ...
That is why i quote ... to explicitly and clearly state what im reacting to, not to cut your coments to misleading out ot content cuted parts that can be evily twisted to make completely other sense (as some people seems to believe around here) ...
Cant do much more than just ask you to thrust me in this matter tho.
Therefore i can with one hand on bible and another one on heart i can tell you that i didnt know it was said.
That is why i asked for the source.
especially since you're also now misrepresenting the speakers in the other topics you're bringing up in your post. You like to pick apart irrelevant minutia and happily 'forget' information given or points conceded in previous discussions as it suites you
I actualy find this sentence quite funy, but simmilar as most other asumptions ...
I was acused countless times of this ... but never provided any clear example. O_o
So, feel free to be angry at me if you feel like it ... but such acusations sounds to me like some general gibberish, people use when they wish to insult someone indirectly, bcs they dont have anything solid in their amunition folder. :-/
But to be honest, you make me sad
... i had higher opinion about you.
I'm not playing today, Rag.
Me neither ...
Not today, not ever ... not about this ... acusation of lie is a serious one and i hate it with all my heart.
There are, were and continue to be a very great number of people across many platforms who are criticising their translation of the system, and generally feeling misled, deceived or lied to.
Personaly i find number of people irellevant ...
There are, were and continue to be a very great number of people across many countries who believe that Earth is flat ... but that doesnt make it true. :-/
They didn't all make this up as some kind of mass hallucination; it is a simple truth that for this great volume of plaintiffs, the information as presented in the news they consumed, be that interviews, news articles, live streams or any other, left them feeling like a particular thing was being delivered,
I never said they did ...
Selective perception is well documented phenomenon ... that that have nothing to do with hallucination.
In short ... people tend to hear what they want to hear and tend to ignore what they dont want to hear ...
You practialy prooved it on those quotes you give me in your previous post ... YOU presumed those changes Swen was talking about will be just some minor irelevant things, but HE never actualy said it.
and that expectation was contra to the company and the game's actual design goals.
Exactly ... expectation ... not adversiment.
As i keep repeating all the time.
Please try to uderstand me ...
I really dont mind if people wish to make things more 5e (despite of what some people around here think) ... me myself wants some things to be more closer to that ruleset ...
The only thing i simply cant stand in topics like this is that complaining about Larian laying to them ... bcs that is simply not true.
If Larian advertising would be so much focused on "we will bring you 5e" as you (and all those not hallucinating, yet pissed off fans) are trying to say ... how is that possible that i never had the feeling that this was promised? O_o
Here is a hint: I never EXPECTED it.
They did ...
And while we were hearing the same interviews, read the same articles, watched the same shows ...
I come to conclusion they are trying to create fun game, while using 5e as inspiration from wich they will borrow from time to time.
You come to conclusion they are trying to create fun game, while using 5e as source material, to wich they will add from time to time.
I mean come on, the only difference is that expectation here ... i cant explain it more clearly even if i draw a picture. :-/
Dont think i dont get it ...
I also had my fair share of false expectations in the past ... my last disapointment so far was Venom 2 ... but i would never even think to blame studio for it, they made it just the way they wanted to, it just didnt fit my taste and i expected something else than it was suppose to be, but that is my own fault.
it doesn't change the fact that there is a large volume of voices who received the information that way, and that did not happen by chance, or by mass-selective-hearing. When even media and news articles were throwing around the same phrase in their headings and descriptive openings, you cannot claim that it was just one or two people selectively hearing what they wanted. This was a problem in the advertising itself
I wonder what do you mean, when you say Media ...
Is that those articles as you quoted previously? That last two? When someone entirely different, and not tied to Larian in any way claimed to give people "certainly confrimed information" that quite soon showed themself to be false?
Yes that is a problem, totally agree.
But its not Larian problem ... and it sickens me to see people i respected so far to see spiting on Larian for something someone entirely different claimed. :-/
It would be like judging you for something i said. :-/
That simply doesnt seems right.
certainly many people didn't and don't care... they would not have cared if the advertising had been handled differently as well, so the are not the relevant group to consider here.
I cant honestly believe this.
That person who would not care no matter what would simply started the discusion and let others join him ... most likely you would not even know (as you dont right now) ... its nice to theoreticaly exclude them, but since there is no way to find them, the practical value of such statement is 0.
Regardless, blame me for interpreting incorrectly if you want to; that's fine. Truth is - I read news articles, saw interviews, and read reports from a small variety of sources, and what I saw, before ever looking at the game, was a whole lot of talk about us finally getting our first really solid 5e video game, as true to the system as it could reasonably be
Question is how many of them were with Swen ...
Then there would be second question and that would be how is that possible that they all dissapeared coveniently?
Another phenomen come to play here ... selective memory, again nothing new, well documented thing.
Thats what im trying you tell you. Quite litteraly.
The phrases about changes were always "a few tweaks" "some little things" and other phrases like that. They never, not once, implied that there would be any large-scale, substantial departures from,the system. They always caged talk of deviation in 'small' language. Always.
And you THOUGHT you know what does it mean ... and it meaned in your eyes exactly the things that were in like with YOUR EXPECTATION ... how covenient ...
Now you find out it meaned something else ... and you are frustrated, i can understand that.
Fun fact: What is even large-scale? And im not asking about your opinion here ... im asking for some general, universal definition.
Once again there is expression in my country: 100 times nothing killed the donkey.
Or different example ...
When Mike Tyson was fighting some much large boxer (i dont remember a name) in start of his carier, nobody believed that he even can win ... surprisingly he did.
When they interviewed the large one after the fight he said: "He reached barely my chin ... but he did it often."
What im trying to say here is that even if Swen would say they "just adjusted the minorest thing in the world" it means little, if they did it with every single thing in the game ... sudently its a large scale of minor tweats.
And we all know that a to-video-game translation will necessarily have some elements that either can't translate or that can benefit from QoL tweaks, and so on. So I believed them when they said 'as faithfully as possible' and I believed them when they said 'small tweaks' and 'a few little changes', and then I got to grips with the game itself, and saw that it was not at all what all the discussion and news articles and interviews had led me to believe, and I was disappointed.
Yup ... that is exactly what im telling you.
You believed them when they said "as faithfully as possible" and ignored them when they started with "but there will be adjustments" since you simply expected them to be minor, insignificant and obviously there, bcs those things were granted ...
All im trying to tell you is if you would not ignore the rest, you would not dismis them as "obviously irellevant compared to that superexiting news" ... you would not be so dissapointed. :-/
I feel for you, but its still not Larian fault.
And every time I see Larian reps talking about the things they are doing, and exercising their art of smoke and mirrors, I see more and more elements of their generally deceptive advertising practice that oversells, under-delivers, misrepresents and always makes everything out to be more and better than it is... when not outright lying.
Well ... their first and foremost goal is to sell the product, after all ...
Cant really blame them for trying to. :-/
I'd really like a nice looking D&d game that runs on 5e rules, ported as faithfully as is reasonably feasible for a video game.
I really wanted BG3 to be that game.
This might surprise you but ... I would like that too.
It looks as though it was never going to be in the first place. Was never intended to be.
I believe so ...
But that dont mean it cant become one.
Perhaps I should just listen to you, accept that I'm to blame for hoping for this, and for wanting this in the first place, and just give up.
Depends on what "give up" means ...
But if you would believe me at least a little, try the rest sometimes ... not accept, but reconcider ... take some things you are dissapointed about and think if you could change your attitude towards them to feel less down about them ... i started with this few years ago, and it might be quite enlightening sometimes.
Not allways tho, bcs sometimes people are just dirty douchebags and you can do nothing about it.
But its interesting experience anyway, the one i can only recommend.
You put so much work, and time and effort into defending the game's design choices, and nay-saying people who put their own time and effort into highlighting where the game diverts needlessly from the system it claims to be emulating. You do a lot of other things too, of course, but you put a lot of time and effort into this.
Im just killing time actualy.
Also i dont defend design choices, well, not all of them at least.
Would it make you happy if I stopped?
Nah, not at all. :-/
What makes me happy is seeing people understands what im trying to tell them (lately its mostly Flooter and mrfuji3) ... it doesnt matter if they agree with me or not, different opinions are more that just welcomed (i allways despite people who surround themself with only those to agree with them, or those who fear to express their honest opinion just so they dont get expelled from some grou) ... the important part for me is seeing that message was recieved and processed corectly.
Seeing someone disagree bcs he obviously missinterpret something i said makes me sad
And also ... i honestly love and kinda envy your energy you put to your focused feedbacks ...
This forum would be much poorer without you.
I've put so much time and effort into bug testing, reporting and analysing this game; doing break-downs of systems and features as implemented, examining how they differ from core, and examining whether the changes are good for the game or not, and the issues that the changes cause, or will cause later, in the hopes of being seen and nudging the game towards what I was hoping it would be... Even you might be a little horrified by the amount of time and otherwise-employable work I've put into this over the past year. I've worked with 5e itself for years, and my skills at analysing game systems and assessing balance are something that I've done, and been compensated for doing, for longer... I don't like to make arguments from authority and I avoid doing so when I can, but generally speaking, I know what I'm on about when I do these things... but it may be that I've done as much as I can, and no-one is listening any more.
You never know that, at least not until full release ... just bcs they dont respond that dont mean they dont listen ...
Just look how many thigs was allready changed, and they never seemed to listen (at least based on responces). :-/
And even if they dont, someone else might ... someone with skills and will to make a mod, just need the right push.
If that is any comfort, i personaly believe that you did tremendous job in your reporting and analysing.
I've tried hard to keep the forums here a positive space, and friendly and constructive, no matter what side of a debate different people may be on, but even that isn't working out so well any more, and it seems like every week there are one or two new faces that just come here to pick fights, argue, or condescend abrasively at one another, over topics that have already been discussed into oblivion many times before, in different threads that are long buried - and they keep getting discussed because the issues that make people discuss them are still there...
This is never easy job ...
But back in the days i was moderator on one czech forum, i was told by one senior that this kind of work is thankless, endless and frustrating ... but it only will be worthless if you stop. :-/
We all kinda burned out, a year is a long time. :-/
Maybe I've done all I can. Maybe it's time I gave up and moved on - and turned back to the "no nice-looking, character-driven, reasonably faithful 5e game" space and hope that something else will come along to fill it one day instead. What do you think, Rag? Would it make you feel satisfied if I said you've convinced me of that?
That was never my intention.