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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
I'm assuming you always Helped your ally instead of simply attacking the enemy because you didn't want that ally to die (or you'd need both characters alive & in the fight to have a chance of winning)..? But if there was a Help limit, then your ally would just die once you reached that limit and you'd be in the same situation of dying and reloading.

That was exactly the situation. I did it on purpose as a test. The one character that was up could not possibly win so I, effectively, engaged in a stalemate. I don't have a problem with it but I thought it was interesting that I could just keep helping the downed character up. I thought there would be a limit; which would add to the game's difficulty.

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Originally Posted by heuron
That was exactly the situation. I did it on purpose as a test. The one character that was up could not possibly win so I, effectively, engaged in a stalemate. I don't have a problem with it but I thought it was interesting that I could just keep helping the downed character up. I thought there would be a limit; which would add to the game's difficulty.
Makes sense. This could also be solved by AI changes, where the AI begins to target a character that keeps reviving downed allies. This would shake things up a bit, but honestly would still result in combats being ~unloseable if you have more PCs than enemies.

Replacing BG3's Help Action with 5e's Help action - or making it so the Help action only stabilizes, doesn't bring to 1 hp - would be better. This would force you to use consumable resources (potions, scrolls, or spell slots) to revive downed characters.

Other solutions could be giving characters mechanical penalties every time they're brought back to 1 hp in a single combat or, when characters go to 0 hp, they start with 1 automatic failed Death Saving Throw per every time they've gone down previously in the same combat. But these solutions are adding homebrew on top of homebrew, which isn't the best.

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Another interesting thing I tested was using Misty Step as an alternative to lock picking doors (or gates) you can see through.

Dror Ragzlin has a trophy room that is behind a locked door. The door is just made of bars so you can see through to the other side. The game indicates that it does not want me to Misty Step in there when it tells me the location is out of sight or unreachable (I forget the exact phrasing). I managed to do it in a very specific spot immediately on the other side of the door, however.

Is Misty Step a teleportation spell? Can it not send a body behind a door like that?

Would my use of it not be allowed in PnP?

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Misty Step is 100% a teleportation spell; it allows you to "teleport up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space you can see." PnP Misty Step even works for teleporting through transparent surfaces - e.g., glass or a Wall of Force.

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In that case I hope obstacles that are transparent or have large gaps (like gate style doors) get flagged by the program so that Misty Step doesn't get blocked. It's a very useful and mischievous ability for a thief to have.

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Originally Posted by heuron
I once got stuck in a loop where one character kept getting downed while I used another to help them back up to 1 hp.
Yes, I had encounters where 3 companions would constanty get downed and helped back up, while one was doing actual killing. While silly, I wouldn't want it removed without some major rebalancing to the combat experience.

To me,(talking purely from my experience in BG3, with little knowledge on how it works in PnP), it would make more sense if "help" would stabilize compaions (stop them from bleeding out) but not revive them back to combat (perhaps medicide check on help? if failed they are just stabilisided, if succesful they get up with one HP)- gringing them back up would require spell or healing item.

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Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by heuron
I once got stuck in a loop where one character kept getting downed while I used another to help them back up to 1 hp.
Yes, I had encounters where 3 companions would constanty get downed and helped back up, while one was doing actual killing. While silly, I wouldn't want it removed without some major rebalancing to the combat experience.

To me,(talking purely from my experience in BG3, with little knowledge on how it works in PnP), it would make more sense if "help" would stabilize compaions (stop them from bleeding out) but not revive them back to combat (perhaps medicide check on help? if failed they are just stabilisided, if succesful they get up with one HP)- gringing them back up would require spell or healing item.

Here again the pure 5e rules would stop that and a party of 6 would balance combat out so 1 or 2 downed companions wouldn't likely mean game over and reload. 5e rules would make it so a character would have to make a Medicine roll to stabilize downed characters. Not bring them back into combat with 1 HP. That is what potions and healing spells are for.

So, again, the 5e rules provide meaning and significance to various game elements. Potions and healing spells are more valuable because downed allies can not only be stabilized and kept from death, but they can bring them back into the fight. Medicine also gains a bigger value boost, making it so much more important because now it may literally mean life or death for allies to have a higher Medicine skill.

All they'd have to do is implement the 5e rules and make it so that instead of throwing potions, a person can administer a potion to a downed character if they are at touch range. So, instead of Help = instant 1 HP, you click on the Help button and several options appear. One is to administer a Health Potion. One is to Stabilize. One is to add advantage to an ally's roll. This would make Help so much more valuable and meaningful in the game and less a broken mechanic that people can use to spam waking up a fallen companion just to keep enemies busy. I'm also missing the Help providing advantage option, which it should have.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by heuron
I once got stuck in a loop where one character kept getting downed while I used another to help them back up to 1 hp.
Yes, I had encounters where 3 companions would constanty get downed and helped back up, while one was doing actual killing. While silly, I wouldn't want it removed without some major rebalancing to the combat experience.

To me,(talking purely from my experience in BG3, with little knowledge on how it works in PnP), it would make more sense if "help" would stabilize compaions (stop them from bleeding out) but not revive them back to combat (perhaps medicide check on help? if failed they are just stabilisided, if succesful they get up with one HP)- gringing them back up would require spell or healing item.

Here again the pure 5e rules would stop that and a party of 6 would balance combat out so 1 or 2 downed companions wouldn't likely mean game over and reload. 5e rules would make it so a character would have to make a Medicine roll to stabilize downed characters. Not bring them back into combat with 1 HP. That is what potions and healing spells are for.

So, again, the 5e rules provide meaning and significance to various game elements. Potions and healing spells are more valuable because downed allies can not only be stabilized and kept from death, but they can bring them back into the fight. Medicine also gains a bigger value boost, making it so much more important because now it may literally mean life or death for allies to have a higher Medicine skill.

All they'd have to do is implement the 5e rules and make it so that instead of throwing potions, a person can administer a potion to a downed character if they are at touch range. So, instead of Help = instant 1 HP, you click on the Help button and several options appear. One is to administer a Health Potion. One is to Stabilize. One is to add advantage to an ally's roll. This would make Help so much more valuable and meaningful in the game and less a broken mechanic that people can use to spam waking up a fallen companion just to keep enemies busy. I'm also missing the Help providing advantage option, which it should have.

+1. Was wondering if it's larian's plan that there will be this help providing advantage option in full release? As i understand it's part of the dnd5e rules. After all isn't larian making a dnd5e game? I like this rule so that rogue can land sneak attack.

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When helping another, it would be just a matter of selecting a character that you are going to provide advantage to. Then, on that character's turn, both characters would perform the same action. In other words, if Lae'zel was going to help Astarion, she would click on the help button and select Advantage, or something like that. Then she could select Astarion to give him advantage and therefore sneak attack. End turn. On Astarion's turn, he does sneak attack via bow. Select Target. Both he and Lae'zel fire a ranged attack. If she has no ranged weapon, they could make it so that she scoops up a rock and throws it. After all, she's only helping him by distracting the foe. She doesn't need to actually shoot or throw something that would hit.

Likewise, when helping in melee, the person who is helping should be shown as swinging their weapon or throwing a punch at the same time as the one who is truly trying to hit.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
When helping another, it would be just a matter of selecting a character that you are going to provide advantage to. Then, on that character's turn, both characters would perform the same action. In other words, if Lae'zel was going to help Astarion, she would click on the help button and select Advantage, or something like that. Then she could select Astarion to give him advantage and therefore sneak attack. End turn. On Astarion's turn, he does sneak attack via bow. Select Target. Both he and Lae'zel fire a ranged attack. If she has no ranged weapon, they could make it so that she scoops up a rock and throws it. After all, she's only helping him by distracting the foe. She doesn't need to actually shoot or throw something that would hit.

Likewise, when helping in melee, the person who is helping should be shown as swinging their weapon or throwing a punch at the same time as the one who is truly trying to hit.

i think it's not difficult to implement at all. i hope they honor the dnd ruleset. also.. i think they should take out bonus action as it's exclusive to certain feats or class.

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Originally Posted by Archaven
I think it's not difficult to implement at all.
Depends on your point of view ...
Its not "hard" to say that Rise of Skywalker was a good movie. I mean there is no complicated wordfor saying.
But to force yourself to tell such obvious lie? Thats the tricky part.


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Archaven
I think it's not difficult to implement at all.
Depends on your point of view ...
Its not "hard" to say that Rise of Skywalker was a good movie. I mean there is no complicated wordfor saying.
But to force yourself to tell such obvious lie? Thats the tricky part.

Ah, you're talking out your butt. Do you really know how hard it is? Do you?

I have an inkling since I work with IT folks all day long. It's not hard from a "certain point of view."

See what I did there? Star Wars quote. 😁

But seriously. It would be no harder than anything else they have to program. If I can do a simple version in Microsoft Excel, with relatively little pain, I would think they could in BG3. Granted, it's MUCH bigger than anything I'd do in Excel, but the point is that it can be done.

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If we are talking in Star Wars refferences, i think i shall call you Stromtrooper ... since you are missing my point. laugh

Lets try it from the other side ...
Its easy to write a simple code ... its not so easy to include it to your final product, if you DONT want it there. wink


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
If we are talking in Star Wars refferences, i think i shall call you Stromtrooper ... since you are missing my point. laugh

Lets try it from the other side ...
Its easy to write a simple code ... its not so easy to include it to your final product, if you DONT want it there. wink

Nah. I got your point. Twas only joking around. Trying to be less serious out here. Doesn't do any of us any good to get all fired up. Right?

Anyway - Well yes. Certainly if they DON'T want it there, then this is all just pointless. If they're going to be stubborn and not give people what they are asking for, an option for 5e stats and rules, and they're going to force people to play this weird DOS/D&D 5e mixed up mesh of rules and stats, then that's what we're going to get and we'll just have to deal with it.

I didn't think we were talking about what they WANT or DON'T want. I mean, how do we know what they WANT or DON'T want? We don't. Not really. Unless you are an employee who works for them and you have some sort of inside knowledge, then we don't really know much about that.

So, I can't really base any of my suggestions or feedback on what they may or may not want to do. Now, if they'd communicate with us more, and they'd just tell us something like, "We don't want to provide players with actual D&D 5e rules and stats," then I'd just stop trying to push it and we'd all move on and everything would be just peachy... except we'd be a bit disappointed that they aren't going to give us what we were hoping for.

But since we have no definite feedback or answers about this, I'm just going to keep assuming that my voice matters and that if I keep pointing out that I think it'd be good to implement a 5e rule system and stats, maybe, just maybe, they'll actually do it.

As Minsc used to say, "The squeaky wheel gets the KICK!" So, if I'm squeaky enough, maybe I"ll get a kick. smile

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
If we are talking in Star Wars refferences, i think i shall call you Stromtrooper ... since you are missing my point. laugh

Lets try it from the other side ...
Its easy to write a simple code ... its not so easy to include it to your final product, if you DONT want it there. wink

Nah. I got your point. Twas only joking around. Trying to be less serious out here. Doesn't do any of us any good to get all fired up. Right?

Anyway - Well yes. Certainly if they DON'T want it there, then this is all just pointless. If they're going to be stubborn and not give people what they are asking for, an option for 5e stats and rules, and they're going to force people to play this weird DOS/D&D 5e mixed up mesh of rules and stats, then that's what we're going to get and we'll just have to deal with it.

I didn't think we were talking about what they WANT or DON'T want. I mean, how do we know what they WANT or DON'T want? We don't. Not really. Unless you are an employee who works for them and you have some sort of inside knowledge, then we don't really know much about that.

So, I can't really base any of my suggestions or feedback on what they may or may not want to do. Now, if they'd communicate with us more, and they'd just tell us something like, "We don't want to provide players with actual D&D 5e rules and stats," then I'd just stop trying to push it and we'd all move on and everything would be just peachy... except we'd be a bit disappointed that they aren't going to give us what we were hoping for.

But since we have no definite feedback or answers about this, I'm just going to keep assuming that my voice matters and that if I keep pointing out that I think it'd be good to implement a 5e rule system and stats, maybe, just maybe, they'll actually do it.

As Minsc used to say, "The squeaky wheel gets the KICK!" So, if I'm squeaky enough, maybe I"ll get a kick. smile

I agree with what you want in BG3 but unfortunately it seems Larian has a different idea for the game, which WOTC seems to support. Here is an article from 2019 talking about this, it's titled "Baldur's Gate 3 will combine the best of Divinity and D&D 5th Edition"

https://www.pcgamer.com/baldurs-gate-3-will-combine-the-best-of-divinity-and-dandd-5th-edition/

Here's a quote: "We'll stay true to our roots," says Vincke, "so we'll give players lots of systems, and lots of agency to use these systems and try to accomplish what you need to on your adventure. That's not going to change; that's the core of what we're doing."

I don't think that quote has to do with D&D but more with Divinity which is what made their studio well known.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
I didn't think we were talking about what they WANT or DON'T want. I mean, how do we know what they WANT or DON'T want? We don't. Not really.
I did ...
And how do i know what tgey want? Well easily ... i see what they do. laugh


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Well, whatever. Again, as Minsc used to say, "The squeaky wheel gets the KICK!" So, if I'm squeaky enough, maybe I'll get a kick.

If you don't tell people what you want, and you don't even try to fight for it, then you must not really want it. If you don't fight for it, you likely won't get what you want.

My hope is that Larian will see enough people want a more authentic 5e experience, so maybe we'll get it at least as an option.

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Isnt it obvious? People left in these forums aren't even BG1 and BG2 fans. Not sure even if Larian are fans of the prior games.
But hey, its called BG3 so yey for that.

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Ok. Bringing this one back.

Party of 6 rocks! It is by far superior to party of 4. That said, proper 5e stats and rules would make it even better.

That said, you know what I'm discovering? Homebrew like surfaces and such aren't so bad with party of 6. Goblin fight at windmill, goblins shooting acid arrows or throwing exploding bombs now makes party of 6 more challenging instead of frustrating.

So, although I do still want 5e stats for things like phase spiders and imps and intellect devourers and such, I'm telling you, party of 6 makes even the homebrew stuff more tolerable.

Still too many potions though. My gosh, if I just used potions all the time I'd never need a cleric ever. Gotta tame down the amount of items that you can just use to replace everyone or something.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Long Rest = Unlimited by default. Option to make it Restricted. Can only Long Rest at certain Rest Areas like Emerald Grove. (You might say this isn't a RAW 5e rule. However, no DM would allow players to just randomly long rest whenever they want wherever they want without some sort of consequence or restriction at all. "Say, Mr. DM. We just killed a goblin leader. Hmmm. But we're pretty banged up. Can we Long Rest right now inside their goblin base?" "No! Are you insane?" says the DM. "There're goblins all around you, and they're super pissed. Get out and then I'll maybe let you find a safe place to rest.")

Shove = Bonus action by default. Option to make it an Action like the 5e rules state. Why? Because I can literally shove someone off a cliff and kill them and then run up to another enemy and attack them with my sword and kill them; effectively killing two enemies in one round. Oh, and btw, the enemies can do that to you too BEFORE you can even act. This very seemingly small thing completely throws off combat, making it more volatile especially as you gain higher levels. 3 out of 4 times when I start the Githyanki Patrol fight, they are attacking twice AND still doing things like shoving my characters around; 3 actions, basically, in one round, and since they are standardly fast, that means they are usually having at least one or two go first, seriously beating the snot out of my characters even before I get a chance to go once. Cutting down on these kinds of homebrews limits both players and enemies more, thus stabilizing combat better and balancing it out better. But, again, I'm only asking for the option so I can play a more stable, realistic combat without enemies making two or three attacks per turn (shove also being an attack whether you call it an attack or not).

Scrolls = Unrestricted by default. Option to make them restricted by class per 5e rules. Again, this adds value to the different types of casters. Clerics being the only ones who are able to use healing scrolls, especially revives, makes them SO much more valuable to the party. If you even have a cleric sitting at camp and you didn't bring them with, but you know you can go get them and bring them to a dead companion to rez them, that cleric is still a very valuable member of the party to have around. If anyone can rez, clerics are less valuable.

Attunement of Items = Unrestricted by default. Option to make it so that you have to attune per standard 5e rules in order to use certain items effectively. This prevents characters from just combing through their inventory and selecting any old item whenever they might need it to use in a particular fight. You have to be more strategic about which items you attune your characters to so that you aren't just willy-nilly grabbing the flaming sword to use against an enemy who is weak to fire and then in the next couple of rounds pulling out your ice sword and using it because you're now fighting an ice vulnerable monster. You might have to strategically spread your items out around your party, making sure at least someone has an item that is of fire and someone has an item of ice and so on and so forth so that you are working as a team instead of just solo-ing everything in the game because you can switch to just the right item whenever you need it. (Again, though, just asking for the option.)

Jump = Crazy Larian jumping 30 feet distances over people's heads by default. Option to make it so that my characters jump actual normal distances per 5e rules so they aren't jumping over people's heads like super heroes, and their distances align with movement speed, not allowing to add additional distance beyond normal movement speed.

Shoving distance = Able to shove someone 300+ feet down a pit in certain areas by default. Option to only allow characters to shove characters 5 feet, like in the 5e rules. Also, ability to shove prone, or both combined. Why? Because ridiculously unrealistic shove distances make the game more volatile. I was literally tossed 300 or more feet by a drow in the Underdark and still somehow my character survived with 1 HP. I was a good 10-15 feet from the edge, but the drow still shoved me off the edge and I continued to soar further away and down to a lower level. That character was SO far from the battle, she never got back into it by the time it was over, all because of the ridiculous shove distances. You all might like that, but I'd like some realistic 5 feet distances please (monsters and characters with greater strength naturally receiving some additional distance since it makes sense that they are stronger and could therefore throw someone further.)

Shall I go on? Over and over again, Larian has stretch or changed the rules. The game barely even seems like D&D because of it.

So, again, I ask... are we really playing a game based on D&D 5e? Hmmm. I guess in the sense that it is called D&D 5e with D&D 5e monster names and appearances and characters are called clerics and rogues and fighters and druids, but the point is that there are so many differences that we are not really playing D&D 5e. Are we?

Hello fellow GM !

I used to view things the same way you do. I was shocked by the systematic advantage of high ground, the jump which bypassed AoO, the lack of disengage system, the fact that you could eat while in combat getting back hp or the fact that you could throw healing potions on your companions to heal them... I was pissed off. But they arranged all that and I am a quite relieved. So THANK YOU LARIAN (and I positively changed my reviews of the game on internet because of that) It is ok for my if if is not perfect from a D&D5 perspective, but, I would like to comment on your feedbacks :

SCROLLS = Unrestricted by default. Option to make them restricted by class per 5e rules.
+100 : it is so true, and it is the biggest issue currently for me. And also, it would be great to get super treasures for the wizard : a spellbook at times, from which you can learn new spells as per the rules !!!! (it is so D&D !)

Long Rest = Option to make it Restricted. Can only Long Rest at certain Rest Areas like Emerald Grove.
+1 for me : that, or make random encounters !

Shove = Bonus action by default. Option to make it an Action like the 5e rules state.
+0.75 yes, it is too powerful compared to other actions. We could argue that it is very fast to shove someone, and more realistic, and maybe they might change that in D&D5.5

Attunement of Items = Unrestricted by default. Option to make it so that you have to attune per standard 5e rules in order to use certain items effectively.
+1

Jump = Crazy Larian jumping 30 feet distances over people's heads by default.
Yes, but now I think thet can't change it because many locations are designed already and only accessible with this jump range. However, they can still reduce a bit the range of jumps in fights and it will be more realistic !

Shoving distance = Option to only allow characters to shove characters 5 feet, like in the 5e rules.
+1

And yes, still TOO MANY potions and scrolls !

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