I can't see the regularity with which folks make the the leap from "the player doesn't yet know" so Larian probably doesn't either, when all we've playing is portion of chapter 1, which is not in its final form. When explanation of Withers' role comes, it may not be satisfying, but for now all that the player "doesn't see" means is that the player doesn't see. We also don't know what devices are included for testing purposes, but will be changed/absent at release. It's fine to express your preferences (a reasonable number of times), but all the indignation seems misplaced concerning a work in progress.
...Kanon makes sense because it is not likely that you'd get to him within a minute.
Pretty sure it actually says the revivify scroll only works on party members, as a targeting thing.
For instance, try to use it on Barth or Remira or Aradin if they die in the fight outside the grove. You won't be able to revivify them.
Originally Posted by Kind_Flayer
Withers bothers me a lot more than the revivify scrolls.
I'm the exact opposite. At least Withers has a story element surrounding his presence. You awaken a mysterious skeleton from a long abandoned crypt. He haunts your camp, occasionally speaking about eerily about fate. For some reason, he is bound in service to you.
As opposed to: here are some scrolls. They only work on party members and nobody else. Don't try to use one on Arabella. Won't work. Just cause.
It actually is, as there are 3 archdruids, and 9 in the inner circle (regular druids), and in order to ascend into that circle you have to defeat the currently seated member. If you lose, you automatically lose XP points that bumps you down to a certain level. That's probably how a lot of shadow druids infiltrated the druid order.
I dunno about order ... I was talking about grove only ...
I mean i dunno about common customs within order, but just from common sence it seems like: "You cant be first druid, since you didnt beat previous one in fight!" "No i didnt ... so what?"
But maybe that is just my feeling.
Originally Posted by gabrielled
Halsin cannot be lore-wise level 5, because that's way too low. 8+d8*4+ConMod*5 cannot give you 90+ HP, unless he has 6+ ConMod (and that's assuming you roll 8 4 times).[quote=gabrielled] And yet he is.
Yeah i know, Larian is not using proper stats ... or proper HP calculation for those stats. But that is different topic.
[quote=gabrielled]I honestly don't see why he couldn't be a level 10 other than "well, then the party would be wiped out" (a level 1 party getting wiped out by challenging something ridiculous like a dragon, a company of githyanki, or the master of druids should be happening IMHO
I would agree ... But the problem here is that you dont "challenge something ridiculous" in his case ... that "something ridiculous" is challenging you.
If you join Minthara and wipe out the grove, Halsin came at night to get his revenge ...
Originally Posted by gabrielled
because I quite frankly don't cherish the idea of getting wiped out by a level 1 party when MY party is level 15).
I didnt know this is possible. O_o
Originally Posted by gabrielled
Larian has set so that the enemies are levelling with you.
I dont like this idea ... I would rather see Larian to make sure we would not outlevel our enemies too fast.
I see ... Seems like either placeholder, or misstake that was corrected allready. O_o
Originally Posted by gabrielled
You're talking about the weird agreement with Jergal, which was pre-Time of Troubles and the Spellplague AND the Second Sundering (basically pre-everything). The Dead Three were mortals in Ancient Netheril times, so their ascent to godhood happened around -360DR. The Second Sundering brought all of the gods back, but the Dead Three were bumped down to Quasi-Deities by the end of the 15th century (remember, Second Sundering ended in 1487DR, so it's been only 5 years), who are basically beings who can't die but are pretty much mortal in every other way. Myrkul is currently serving Kelemvor. Dunno what Bane and Bhaal are doing, but I doubt they'd be able to grant spells.
No idea man ... i really dont know DnD lore good enough to continue in this topic. I only know that i believe i have heared Wolfheart talking about it, in one of his lore videos ... thats all.
Originally Posted by gabrielled
Also REALLY not sure why Astarion doesn't realise that the symbols they see everywhere around the Absolute's Chosens have at least Myrkul's symbol on it, because Myrkul was the God of the Dead for the vast majority of his lifetime and he definitely would've seen the symbol, being a vampire spawn. Myrkul died in 1358DR. Selective blindness seems to curse everyone in this game, since the Gur blithely ignores my PC calling Astarion by his name (not to mention pasty white skin, red eyes, and fangs).
That seems like general problem in litteraly every fictional universe ... Especialy comics ...
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
what we have here is a story that contradicts itself if you just think a little too hard about it.
I somehow cant shake the feeling that every story starts to contradict itself if you dig deep enough ...
Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
But the whole story revolves around the tadpole and the True Souls so far. If you can get rid of it by dying and getting resurrected it's bull.
That is the thing ... you cant. Just once uppon a time (yes this topic was here multiple times allready) someone come to conclusion that you should be able to.
In my honest opinion just this idea is pure riping off any roleplay and just messing with rules themselves ... i mean come on, the basic condition of this whole plan is for your character to ask someone to murder him to death ... And some people still believe that is good story element?
Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
They should really think about that or just tell that they know but had no idea how to do it otherwise.
Some things should go without saying tho. :-/
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
what we have here is a story that contradicts itself if you just think a little too hard about it.
I somehow cant shake the feeling that every story starts to contradict itself if you dig deep enough ...
Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
But the whole story revolves around the tadpole and the True Souls so far. If you can get rid of it by dying and getting resurrected it's bull.
That is the thing ... you cant. Just once uppon a time (yes this topic was here multiple times allready) someone come to conclusion that you should be able to.
In my honest opinion just this idea is pure riping off any roleplay and just messing with rules themselves ... i mean come on, the basic condition of this whole plan is for your character to ask someone to murder him to death ... And some people still believe that is good story element?
Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
They should really think about that or just tell that they know but had no idea how to do it otherwise.
Some things should go without saying tho. :-/
Yea, you do not have to dig a lot really.
I totally agree that getting killed should not be a part around the story. Thing is they let you die and they revoled gales story around dying. So it is an expected element of the game, resurrection or no. (you even have a litte skull in the corner of you portrait)
Every other character of the game that had a tadpole inserted and dies, has his little guest crawl out of his eye and run away.
I would have liked an explanation for that. Our tadpoles are different is a little thin without knowing why.
Let us say dying is no "true death" since we have withers etc. and since our Taddies are clever little fkers they know that and stay where they are, fine. But at the least when one of ours dies permanently, let them wriggle out of the head then because its a final "out of the game".
As far as i know astarion is the only one that can die when you stake him.
It does not make a terrible difference for the game to have it changed or not, but you will not convince me easily that it is no plothole (and a pretty blatant one)
While i know people who find just looking at rules instead of solving any problems by quick discusion (or votes) to be "too anoying to handle" ... I also know some people that are able to spend litteral dozens of hours studying rules to find out if certain action was acording to them or not.
So what exactly is "a lot" here? Its matter of having an bold idea?
Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
I totally agree that getting killed should not be a part around the story. Thing is they let you die and they revoled gales story around dying. So it is an expected element of the game, resurrection or no. (you even have a litte skull in the corner of you portrait)
I never said that ... Actualy ressurection is part of the world, part of the settings and yes it should be part of the story in my honest opinion ...
Still death is traumatizing and unpleasant experience, so people try hard to avoid it as long as it will be possible ... Still once you are dead, you are dependent on the help of others ... wich, especialy if you are in group of complete strangers from wich some tryed to kill you when you first met (looking at you Astarion and Nettie), some litteraly told you that you are insignificant shit on their boots (lae'zel), some dont really care about you as they also told you but only tolerates your presence since its covenient for their own goals (shadowheart), some are just using you to their own benefit (gale), and some are so full of themself so it would not surprise me as a player that they would be able to forget about you (wyll) ... simply doesnt seem like the ideal way of fixing problems.
Wich all just explain why "hey lets kill me and then ressurect me" is so stupid plan that no reasonable character would ever come with it ... Sure, we dont need to play reasonable characters ... but even tho i dont know "many" DM (just like 3) ... i cant imagine any of them to even bother with such suggestion. :-/
Yet i still believes that Ressurection is vital part of this settings, and should be counted with ... not just for narrative purposes (as Gale asking us to revive him, or Mol telling us they plan to ressurect Arabella) but also as option for player. I dont see any reason why should we be unable to spend our "extremely precious and expensive" revivify scrolls to revive Kanon, Arabella, Sazza, Kagha, Halsin, Minthara, Volo, ... practicaly anyone ... if we choose to. I believe the corect way to do this would be incerasing cost of such scrolls to at least 2000g, maybe even 5000g ... and dont give it to us freely ... that way we would have option to use ressurection that is part of the story for everyone, but it would be so precious so we would probably rather go say that Tiefling mother that her daughter is dead.
Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
Every other character of the game that had a tadpole inserted and dies, has his little guest crawl out of his eye and run away.
And none of them had 3 friends standing around with ressurection scrolls prepared in hand. If you know what i mean.
Remember that tadpoles connect our minds.
The only viable argument here would be permanent killing Astarion during night snack conversation ... or Lae'zel death if you go to your camp while she runs to talk with other Githyanki ... But that both happens "of the screen" ... so who really knows if there still is tadpole in their heads? :P
Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
I would have liked an explanation for that. Our tadpoles are different is a little thin without knowing why.
I believe we will know why in corect time ... Note that we dont even have whole Act 1 ... and tapoles seems to be important part of whole story, to have everything explained to tiniest details so soon would be also bad. :-/ Even tho for different reasons.
Also dont forget that so far we were only told that our tadpole is different compared to regular one ... nothing more. And that is something we should be able to find out oureself, by the fact that on 7th day we dont sudently play as Mind Flayer.
Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
Let us say dying is no "true death" since we have withers etc. and since our Taddies are clever little fkers they know that and stay where they are, fine. But at the least when one of ours dies permanently, let them wriggle out of the head then because its a final "out of the game".
As i said abowe ... so far only two companions can die "for real" ... and both deaths are done in offscreen.
But this may please you:
Starts on Time: 15:57 .... important part is on 17:03 ... sadly forum allways starts the video from second 0, even if you use timed link. -_- And obviously ... spoiler alert.
Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
It does not make a terrible difference for the game to have it changed or not, but you will not convince me easily that it is no plothole (and a pretty blatant one)
That comes without saying ... you dont give me much arguments to work with. Basicaly i only have "it should be possible" and "i believe it" ...
Even jumping right to Lava to get rid of the parasite is possible ... that dont mean that reasonable character would do that.
Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 24/11/2110:17 PM.
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
It actually is, as there are 3 archdruids, and 9 in the inner circle (regular druids), and in order to ascend into that circle you have to defeat the currently seated member. If you lose, you automatically lose XP points that bumps you down to a certain level. That's probably how a lot of shadow druids infiltrated the druid order.
I dunno about order ... I was talking about grove only ...
I mean i dunno about common customs within order, but just from common sence it seems like: "You cant be first druid, since you didnt beat previous one in fight!" "No i didnt ... so what?"
But maybe that is just my feeling.
And then the bigger druid who's in charge of the region comes and kicks you out. The druid can, not only because the druid has authority, but the said druid can probably wallop the upstart. The druidic order isn't tree-hugging lets-be-friendly order. It tries to imitate nature, so challenging to gain a seat is not that rare.
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by gabrielled
because I quite frankly don't cherish the idea of getting wiped out by a level 1 party when MY party is level 15).
I didnt know this is possible. O_o
Of course it can be, you wiped out a hag, a githyanki company, an entire circle of druids, and an adamantine golem and you are barely level 5. So the reverse can also happen: you, a pretty powerful team of eclectic collection of super-powered people (a vampire spawn, an extremely famous adventurer/hero, and once-beloved of Mystra herself) can be wiped out by a level 5. If the other party is feeling lucky, they might challenge you at level 2. And you can lose.
5E did something weird with CR. A pit fiend can take out Mordenkainen. And either Gale was formerly SUPER-DUPER high-levelled or his WIS should be lower, because Karsus was level 40+ when he attempted Karsus' folly. The dude could cast level 12 spells (which don't even exist anymore).
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by gabrielled
Also REALLY not sure why Astarion doesn't realise that the symbols they see everywhere around the Absolute's Chosens have at least Myrkul's symbol on it, because Myrkul was the God of the Dead for the vast majority of his lifetime and he definitely would've seen the symbol, being a vampire spawn. Myrkul died in 1358DR. Selective blindness seems to curse everyone in this game, since the Gur blithely ignores my PC calling Astarion by his name (not to mention pasty white skin, red eyes, and fangs).
That seems like general problem in litteraly every fictional universe ... Especialy comics ...
Someone SHOULD have mentioned it. If Shadowheart passes a skill check, she can identify that the ruined temple is Jergal's, so she should know the Myrkulite symbol (after all, Myrkul lost his church much more recently than Jergal, so I'd think it's in the basic clergical education). Astarion can definitely do a skill check in Risen Road's blood symbol and say "hey, that looks like Myrkul's symbol".
Originally Posted by GM4Him
And it IS explained by several people that we have VERY special tadpoles. So special that a cambion wants it for himself. Does he want Minthara's? Nope. Does he want Ragzlins? Nope. Just ours. Ours is a catalyst. It is given authority over other True Souls even. It is a boss tadpole protected and imbued with Sharran/ Netherese Shadow Magic which is keeping it from turning us instantly into mind flayers - or whatever it will actually turn us into. It is even said by Omeluum that whenever we do turn, it will likely be far more excruciating than any other ceremorphosis ever, and it has burrowed so deep into our person that he cannot remove it from us either via connecting mentally with it or by physical or magical means. It is apart of us completely.
People, this is no different from Bhaalspawn. Instead of being infused by the seed of a god, we've been infused by the seed of mind flayers - a special mind flayer seed that has made it apart of the very essence of who we are. It is really no different. We have been reborn as something new and godlike, and it is very different from any other mind flayer parasites ever, including that of other True Souls. THAT is why the Absolute wants us so badly, not just the weapon. THAT is why Shadowheart is called a beautiful weapon by the voice on the ship. We are MORE than any other, and the tadpoles can't be crushed and removed and us resurrected because they ARE apart of us now. If we are rez'd, the tadpole is rez'd with us.
I don't really buy that argument. As a Bhaalspawn, you were born with a piece of Bhaal's divine essence, but even it can be ripped away and you come out somewhat okay (Imoen, PC. Imoen later gives that piece of Bhaal to PC). The tadpole is still a different entity from you, as it's made clear from the writing during the daisy sequences, as well as when you use your power (the narrator says that the tadpole is 'satisfied'). At any rate, the tadpole can be incinerated along with your entire head, and resurrection or reincarnate will restore your personality and memories. Omeleum mentioned physical method (as in surgery) isn't really a viable option (it's probably somewhere in the 3rd ventricle or nearby), so no surgical extraction for you) but we're not exactly trying to keep the brain intact with the mentioned method. Furthermore, it'll be weird if there was a mechanism to get rid of divine essence willingly without it returning to the deity (dissipate in thin air, return to the Weave, what have you) and it wasn't mentioned once in BGII. Some PCs might not take it, but some PCs might... and that's the end of story right there.
This plot hole could've been solved in many different ways.
1. Nettie/Halsin telling you that the Netherese magic makes your head shatterproof and fireproof. This would make me laugh hysterically. 2. Gale not being able to cast True Resurrection and not wanting to give it up to a cleric of Shar. Larian defeated this idea by allowing anyone to use a scroll. I first thought it was a bug because it felt so odd seeing Lae'Zel use scrolls. 3. Have Nettie tell you that you will permanently lose part of yourself if you go through with this headbash/resurrection process, as the infection is too far along (which IS a caveat in this tadpole extraction procedure). You still get the option to go along with it, but you will be bumped back to level 1, and level progression takes twice the amount of XP. 4. Tadpole mind-controlling you to say no if Nettie/Halsin offers the solution. You make a skill check of 20 on Wis to say that you want to hear more or yes or any confirmation to further the extraction procedure plot. Good luck.
These can all be implemented with a few lines of dialogue tree, and would make the solution "Travel to Baldur's Gate to find a high-level cleric of
Myrkul, I think
ASAP" much more relevant. They also need to come up with why the priest of that particular clergy can be high-level or even exist.
what we have here is a story that contradicts itself if you just think a little too hard about it.
I somehow cant shake the feeling that every story starts to contradict itself if you dig deep enough ...
Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
But the whole story revolves around the tadpole and the True Souls so far. If you can get rid of it by dying and getting resurrected it's bull.
That is the thing ... you cant. Just once uppon a time (yes this topic was here multiple times allready) someone come to conclusion that you should be able to.
In my honest opinion just this idea is pure riping off any roleplay and just messing with rules themselves ... i mean come on, the basic condition of this whole plan is for your character to ask someone to murder him to death ... And some people still believe that is good story element?
Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
They should really think about that or just tell that they know but had no idea how to do it otherwise.
Some things should go without saying tho. :-/
I think you're being a bit too lenient on Larian with that first point. Most good stories might have flaws and certain logical leaps when you dig deep enough, things that just sort of have to happen the way they do for the story to work, but I don't think a good story outright contradicts itself in a meaningful way. There are parts of this story that do kind of fall apart if you think about them at all, it's not even a matter of digging deep. Given that this is still the beginning of the story, there's no way to be sure how many of these things are actually poor writing or are meant to not hold up, so in those cases I'm hapy just pointing them out and moving on.
With all that having been said, the problem with the tadpoles is in the way the story conveys information. We see the tadpole crawl out of that one true soul and we learn they crawl out upon death. Great. But we can die in the game a bunch of times, Gale can die and that death is explicitly addressed in the game. It becomes hard for us as the player to understand how much of that is happening "in story" and how much is down to "gameiness." Are the characters actually dying in the fiction of the game? The way that the skeleton guy is integrated makes the line even more blurred. This makes it so that when the characters don't voice this obvious possibility at all, it feels kind of off to a lot of people. I agree that it makes perfect sense for them not to go through with the plan, but I think having someone voice it, specifically because it's so obvious, would help clear things up a lot.
what we have here is a story that contradicts itself if you just think a little too hard about it.
I somehow cant shake the feeling that every story starts to contradict itself if you dig deep enough ...
Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
But the whole story revolves around the tadpole and the True Souls so far. If you can get rid of it by dying and getting resurrected it's bull.
That is the thing ... you cant. Just once uppon a time (yes this topic was here multiple times allready) someone come to conclusion that you should be able to.
In my honest opinion just this idea is pure riping off any roleplay and just messing with rules themselves ... i mean come on, the basic condition of this whole plan is for your character to ask someone to murder him to death ... And some people still believe that is good story element?
Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
They should really think about that or just tell that they know but had no idea how to do it otherwise.
Some things should go without saying tho. :-/
I think you're being a bit too lenient on Larian with that first point. Most good stories might have flaws and certain logical leaps when you dig deep enough, things that just sort of have to happen the way they do for the story to work, but I don't think a good story outright contradicts itself in a meaningful way. There are parts of this story that do kind of fall apart if you think about them at all, it's not even a matter of digging deep. Given that this is still the beginning of the story, there's no way to be sure how many of these things are actually poor writing or are meant to not hold up, so in those cases I'm hapy just pointing them out and moving on.
With all that having been said, the problem with the tadpoles is in the way the story conveys information. We see the tadpole crawl out of that one true soul and we learn they crawl out upon death. Great. But we can die in the game a bunch of times, Gale can die and that death is explicitly addressed in the game. It becomes hard for us as the player to understand how much of that is happening "in story" and how much is down to "gameiness." Are the characters actually dying in the fiction of the game? The way that the skeleton guy is integrated makes the line even more blurred. This makes it so that when the characters don't voice this obvious possibility at all, it feels kind of off to a lot of people. I agree that it makes perfect sense for them not to go through with the plan, but I think having someone voice it, specifically because it's so obvious, would help clear things up a lot.
The tadpoles crawl out of every true soul we kill. We just only have one cutscene. Last time i killed Ragzlin some PC even commented that.
And then the bigger druid who's in charge of the region comes and kicks you out. The druid can, not only because the druid has authority, but the said druid can probably wallop the upstart. The druidic order isn't tree-hugging lets-be-friendly order. It tries to imitate nature, so challenging to gain a seat is not that rare.
I dont argue he cant ... i just dont quite feels like he have to. :-/
I mean if everything in the grove is running smoothly, druids from there have a little weaker, but wise and respected leader that never caused any throuble to anyone ... why kick out competent leader and replace him with some moron, just bcs he is stonger?
I understand that is may seem "natural" to proove your domination through raw power ... for animals. But there is more than just strength aspect to concider, when thinking creatures that are just mimicing nature are concidered ... after all, not much animals are fighting "just for presige/fun" ... there allways is some deeper motive.
Originally Posted by gabrielled
a pretty powerful team of eclectic collection of super-powered people (a vampire spawn, an extremely famous adventurer/hero, and once-beloved of Mystra herself) can be wiped out by a level 5. If the other party is feeling lucky, they might challenge you at level 2. And you can lose.
Well the thing is ... they are not so super-powered actualy.
I mean yes, Astarion is old ... REALLY old ... But thats it. That is his whole expertise ... All he ever did was to appear on some culture action, charm some foolish noble lady and then lead her to his masters lair ... and i dont made this up, that is what he said to us. This kind of life, no matter how long it is, dont give you much "adventuring experience". :P
Wyll ... i mean, yes he told us that he fighted hordes of incredibly strong enemies ... but once again, thats all, only HE told us ... I know it might seem little odd that for one companion im quoting his own words as proof ... and for other i use them as disclaimer ... but concider others ... Goblin by Windmill, Spike, that Flaming Fist captain ... they all know him personaly, and they all concider him useless poser ... maybe those stories about his heroic deeds should not be taken too seriously. Also, note what Volo did out of that attack on Grove gate.
Gale ... well, this story should be self explanatory. Since his orb consumes magic, i believe it dont sounds so unbelievable that he simply lost most of his power bcs of that. Some might question why is he even able to cast any spell ... and i dunno, i dont created that character, but if i had to guess ... i would say that as we level, he slowly learns to get control over how much he is able to restrain it.
The only companions that is supposed to be stronger than they actualy are ... are funny enough Shadowheart and Lae'zel ... Lae'zel spend her whole life training and teaching to be as effective soldier as possible ... that is whole life purpose of her kind ... yet her power is exactly the same as any other fighter we create and technicaly lower than most fighters we meet.
And Shadowheart just finished (not sucessfully tho) secred mission to obtain the artefact, so she should not be so lame logicaly.
Originally Posted by gabrielled
Someone SHOULD have mentioned it. If Shadowheart passes a skill check, she can identify that the ruined temple is Jergal's, so she should know the Myrkulite symbol (after all, Myrkul lost his church much more recently than Jergal, so I'd think it's in the basic clergical education). Astarion can definitely do a skill check in Risen Road's blood symbol and say "hey, that looks like Myrkul's symbol".
NO argue about that.
Originally Posted by gabrielled
This plot hole could've been solved in many different ways.
1. Nettie/Halsin telling you that the Netherese magic makes your head shatterproof and fireproof. This would make me laugh hysterically. 2. Gale not being able to cast True Resurrection and not wanting to give it up to a cleric of Shar. Larian defeated this idea by allowing anyone to use a scroll. I first thought it was a bug because it felt so odd seeing Lae'Zel use scrolls. 3. Have Nettie tell you that you will permanently lose part of yourself if you go through with this headbash/resurrection process, as the infection is too far along (which IS a caveat in this tadpole extraction procedure). You still get the option to go along with it, but you will be bumped back to level 1, and level progression takes twice the amount of XP. 4. Tadpole mind-controlling you to say no if Nettie/Halsin offers the solution. You make a skill check of 20 on Wis to say that you want to hear more or yes or any confirmation to further the extraction procedure plot. Good luck.
1 - I see you disclaimed that one yourself. 2 - Gale have no way to want anything, since in situation you even learn about existence of that scroll ... he is kinda too dead to interfere. 3 - I kinda like this idea ... but if the procedure would be sucessfull, you would potentialy create even whorse plothole ... why would anyone who would undergo procedure stay with your party? O_o 4 - I like this idea a lot! I mean that part when tadpole controls you ... that is brilliant! ... the rest come to same problem as 3
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
Well the thing is ... they are not so super-powered actualy.
I mean yes, Astarion is old ... REALLY old ... But thats it. That is his whole expertise ... All he ever did was to appear on some culture action, charm some foolish noble lady and then lead her to his masters lair ... and i dont made this up, that is what he said to us. This kind of life, no matter how long it is, dont give you much "adventuring experience". :P
Wyll ... i mean, yes he told us that he fighted hordes of incredibly strong enemies ... but once again, thats all, only HE told us ... I know it might seem little odd that for one companion im quoting his own words as proof ... and for other i use them as disclaimer ... but concider others ... Goblin by Windmill, Spike, that Flaming Fist captain ... they all know him personaly, and they all concider him useless poser ... maybe those stories about his heroic deeds should not be taken too seriously. Also, note what Volo did out of that attack on Grove gate.
Gale ... well, this story should be self explanatory. Since his orb consumes magic, i believe it dont sounds so unbelievable that he simply lost most of his power bcs of that. Some might question why is he even able to cast any spell ... and i dunno, i dont created that character, but if i had to guess ... i would say that as we level, he slowly learns to get control over how much he is able to restrain it.
The only companions that is supposed to be stronger than they actualy are ... are funny enough Shadowheart and Lae'zel ... Lae'zel spend her whole life training and teaching to be as effective soldier as possible ... that is whole life purpose of her kind ... yet her power is exactly the same as any other fighter we create and technicaly lower than most fighters we meet.
And Shadowheart just finished (not sucessfully tho) secred mission to obtain the artefact, so she should not be so lame logicaly.
Astarion is a vampire spawn, which makes him significantly stronger and faster than your average adventurer. As an NPC vampire spawns start off with 82HP, has speed of 30ft, has natural AC of 15, and has damage resistance from bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing. He's on par with the bulette, hill giants, night hags, and elementals.
Wyll: even the player character knows Wyll, if you are Baldurian. It's not just the people who know him personally, it includes you.
Gale actually gives an explanation on why his magic is weakened, and it's not because of the Netherese Destruction Orb. It's because Mystra abandoned him. Which really makes me question his class selection as a wizard. I'd definitely make him a sorcerer if I were the DM.
Shadowheart is the only one who is a big question mark, partly because of
an almost-confirmed theory that Shadowheart isn't actually a Sharran cleric
. Not sure how the levels translate, especially considering Shar's clergy and their philosophy. She very well may have been an initiate, the lowest in the hierarchy.
Either way, by the time the party's level 15, Astarion could've been an ochre jelly, he'd still be super-powered compared to an average adventuring company. Midnight was a level 7 wizard when she ascended to godhood, and Laeral's level 19 in 5E. A level 15 party would be able to take out a young blue or silver dragon without any struggle. There shouldn't be a possibility that a level 2 party can wipe them out (most certainly not a vampire spawn with psionic powers).
Astarion being a vampire create even bigger plot holes:
Why do cure wounds spells and healing items not cause severe damage. In general you can use healing spells to cause significant harm to all undead. Why doesn't Shadowheart's "turn undead" affect him? he should at least be fleeing and has she raises in level it could ultimately destroy him.
As far as the Drow issues there has been much discussion over the racial implications read historically into the drow as a race, and an effort to re-brand the old version as the Mezzo=Loth Worshiping sect and introducing different sects that do not represent pure chaos and evil. These sect are not being looked as something new, but they have been around for as long as the Loth sect.
Admittedly the table top version I played was 2nd edition, but I do not recall Druids having access to ressurect...they only got reincarnation and raise dead.
Astarion being a vampire create even bigger plot holes:
Why do cure wounds spells and healing items not cause severe damage. In general you can use healing spells to cause significant harm to all undead. Why doesn't Shadowheart's "turn undead" affect him? he should at least be fleeing and has she raises in level it could ultimately destroy him.
Admittedly the table top version I played was 2nd edition, but I do not recall Druids having access to ressurect...they only got reincarnation and raise dead.
Healing doesn't do anything to undead in 5e. Turn undead would, though. It's actually why I thought he was a dhamphir at first, because he was in the sun, and turning didn't seem to affect him.
Core Druids in 5e only get true resurrection and reincarnation, they don't get raise dead, revivify, or resurrection. Unless you're a witherbloom druid, they can get revivify.
Halsin is an accomplished healer. You can't be considered an accomplished healer at like level 5. He's a First Druid. You can't be a First Druid at level 5, and if you are, that's one lame Grove.
How can you even remotely think he's appropriately leveled? He can't even cast Greater Restoration or Mass Cure Wounds or even flipping Conjure Animals.
No. I will say. He is WAY too under leveled.
That said, I'm hoping this is just because it's EA and once they lift the level cap he'll be more like Level 10 at least. I'm also hoping Ragzlin will be more appropriately leveled as a Hobgoblin Warlord and Minthara and Kagha too. I think once they remove the cap, they can do appropriate levels for enemies, increase XP, and by the time you head into the Underdark you'll likely be about level 6.
But anyway, I guess it all depends on what you consider a plot hole. In D&D with magic, ANYTHING is possible. So, why is it so hard to accept the tadpole Netherese Sharran ceremorphosis thing they've got going on that you really don't fully understand, but it's easy to accept that Bhaal, a god, slept with gazillions of ladies and created thousands of Bhaalspawn in some intricate plot to try to resurrect himself by pitting all his spawn against one another so their souls would collect in a single collection plate so that it could be used to rez him?
And why is it a plot whole that Astarion is a living vampire when some crazy, twisted shadow magic is changing all the rules? He is now quasi alive and quasi-dead. I think it makes his story interesting and unique. I want to know how and why and so forth.
Now, again, if I get to the end of the game and they never explain it, then YES. I'm going to say this game went from my all time favorite to a piece of trash real fast. If by the end they don't solidly explain things, that's bad, and THEN I will never play another Larian game again. But right now? It's way to soon to judge.
And why is it a plot whole that Astarion is a living vampire when some crazy, twisted shadow magic is changing all the rules? He is now quasi alive and quasi-dead. I think it makes his story interesting and unique. I want to know how and why and so forth.
I never meant for Astarion walking around in the sun to be a plot hole. I said it made no sense for him to not realise that the triangle/skull motif is Myrkul's symbol. He must have been in a crypt half the time he's been around Cazador, and I bet there were some leftover symbols etched into the crypts. Besides, Myrkul was the god of the dead for a good 100 years or so after Astarion was turned, so even if Cyric and Kelemvor decided to erase all Myrkul's symbols off the face of the Prime, he'd still have seen it. Instead, he just says "meh, I wonder what it is". The party knows about Bhaal and even Jergal, but not Myrkul?
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Now, again, if I get to the end of the game and they never explain it, then YES. I'm going to say this game went from my all time favorite to a piece of trash real fast. If by the end they don't solidly explain things, that's bad, and THEN I will never play another Larian game again. But right now? It's way to soon to judge.
If they explained WHY we can't do the headbash method, then it would make sense. As of now the game universe is acting as if there's no such method, with Omeleum, Lae'zel, AND Gale about. Three people who know way more about ceremorphosis than an average mage in Waterdeep, one's an illithid himself, and no one says "hey what about this method?". The party's willing to talk to and drink weird concoctions from a goblin priestess so they're pretty desperate, but no one bothers to even ask about the method that seems pretty straightforward.
I was reading one of the rulebooks on aberrations and I found something about ceremorphosis that, in my mind, renders half the Act 1 pointless.
When someone gets the tadpole, there is a way to fix it, given that the transformation is caught early enough. You destroy the brain (bash it in or incinerate), the character dies, then you get someone to cast resurrection or true resurrection, then restore the lost brain parts by a healing spell or restoration. It's hard to do because it's super rare for the transformation to be caught so early.
Considering that everyone's transformation has essentially been arrested, and at least Halsin is an archdruid, they should've at least provided an explanation as to why the above method isn't a viable option, because Gale not knowing this solution sounds implausible. Nettie should've at least said "that's not possible with you lot because reasons". At this point it feels like my elven wizard is wandering around in the wilderness for no reason while all she needs to do is find Halsin (a day's work), have Astarion bash her head in (hey he volunteered), have Halsin resurrect and restore her, then say toodles and walk back to Baldur's Gate with Wyll and Shadowheart and maybe Gale. She's a true neutral so she doesn't feel any impetus to stick around and solve this crisis. She wants to skedaddle.
It could've been solved with a line of dialogue but as of now it feels like a plot hole.
<<Divinity Baldurs gate III : A tale tale rpg adventure game set in Faerum!>> is one huge plot hole.
Be a god! From level 1! A wooping 6 annoying look alike companions to join in your adventures! Take all the TIME you want! TIME and URGENCY is a burden to storytelling and we have eradicated it ! Who needs spells, when you have FOOD! And MORE FOOD! and potions and scrolls that everyone can get high on! Magical Items EVERYWHERE. You will never get bored. EVER. Who needs atmosphere, day/night cycles, random encounters, large explorable maps; you know stuff that fleshes out the game world, when you can just have convenient FAST TRAVEL to your next battle encounter just waiting there for you!! We have moved on past the archaic mouse/keyboards controls. Our UI and character controls fits like a glove the future of gaming : consoles and mobile!!
I'm talking about what some of the others said. "Astarion being a vampire create even bigger plot holes:" etc.
And yes, I agree that with many things they are not explaining things clearly.
Why was Halsin and Aradin and co. gone for more than a month and a half? What were they doing for 7 or 8 weeks? The temple is literally a 10 minute jog away. Even if you believe it is 10 miles away instead, it cannot be more than 10 days because you are told Baldur's is 10 days away. So...
And if you long rest more than a few days, why doesn't the ritual complete?
Is Minthara only after the weapon, or is the Absolute also wanting her to destroy the Grove? Sure seems like she's out to destroy the Grove almost more than finding the weapon.
Halsin is a weak baby. Why? You are only level 4, but your party can save him, and he's so happy. I'm thinking a level drain explanation would be in order. Then make him a playable companion. This would also explain why he can't crack your skull open and rez you. He's too weak now.
What were your companions doing if you long rest before meeting them? Why are they still around the Nautiloid if you long rested even once?
I wouldn't call these plot holes, though. They're more like things not explained yet in EA; things they really need to explain better.
Just checked on Kagha, as of the latest patch she's still a Level 4 Archdruid.
Ok, i stand corected ... But is that really so huge problem? O_o
Originally Posted by gabrielled
Astarion is a vampire spawn, which makes him significantly stronger and faster than your average adventurer. As an NPC vampire spawns start off with 82HP, has speed of 30ft, has natural AC of 15, and has damage resistance from bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing. He's on par with the bulette, hill giants, night hags, and elementals.
I dont really know what to say about this ... NPC having different rules than players is kinda common stuff, so ... w/e i gues.
Originally Posted by gabrielled
Wyll: even the player character knows Wyll, if you are Baldurian. It's not just the people who know him personally, it includes you.
As far as i know, player character "heared" about Wyll ... Wich is different ... you could just heared stories about his heroic deeds, but that dont make them automaticly true.
Originally Posted by gabrielled
Gale actually gives an explanation on why his magic is weakened, and it's not because of the Netherese Destruction Orb. It's because Mystra abandoned him. Which really makes me question his class selection as a wizard. I'd definitely make him a sorcerer if I were the DM.
Poteto, potato ... Since those things happened in aproximately simmilar times, we can only guess.
Originally Posted by gabrielled
Shadowheart is the only one who is a big question mark, partly because of
an almost-confirmed theory that Shadowheart isn't actually a Sharran cleric
. Not sure how the levels translate, especially considering Shar's clergy and their philosophy. She very well may have been an initiate, the lowest in the hierarchy.
Since levels are just matematical expression of amount of combat/adventuring experience ... I would dare to say that complete memory loss should be concidered equivalence of reseting to level 1.
Originally Posted by gabrielled
Either way, by the time the party's level 15, Astarion could've been an ochre jelly, he'd still be super-powered compared to an average adventuring company. Midnight was a level 7 wizard when she ascended to godhood, and Laeral's level 19 in 5E. A level 15 party would be able to take out a young blue or silver dragon without any struggle. There shouldn't be a possibility that a level 2 party can wipe them out (most certainly not a vampire spawn with psionic powers).
I have no idea what are you talking about.
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Halsin is an accomplished healer. You can't be considered an accomplished healer at like level 5. He's a First Druid. You can't be a First Druid at level 5, and if you are, that's one lame Grove.
How can you even remotely think he's appropriately leveled? He can't even cast Greater Restoration or Mass Cure Wounds or even flipping Conjure Animals.
No. I will say. He is WAY too under leveled.
You are so focused on some "level number" that you lost any connection to that world.
Originally Posted by GM4Him
That said, I'm hoping this is just because it's EA and once they lift the level cap he'll be more like Level 10 at least. I'm also hoping Ragzlin will be more appropriately leveled as a Hobgoblin Warlord and Minthara and Kagha too. I think once they remove the cap, they can do appropriate levels for enemies, increase XP, and by the time you head into the Underdark you'll likely be about level 6.
I for the other hand hope they will keep this as it is now ... I created my own Tav to play her adventure ... not to watch in some dark corner as "aproprietly leveled NPC" are fighting together, hoping that no AoE spelldamage gets too close to me, since i would be dead in blink of an eye. -_-
Originally Posted by gabrielled
If they explained WHY we can't do the headbash method, then it would make sense. As of now the game universe is acting as if there's no such method, with Omeleum, Lae'zel, AND Gale about. Three people who know way more about ceremorphosis than an average mage in Waterdeep, one's an illithid himself, and no one says "hey what about this method?". The party's willing to talk to and drink weird concoctions from a goblin priestess so they're pretty desperate, but no one bothers to even ask about the method that seems pretty straightforward.
Cant you hear youreself? Its not "method" its smashing your f*****g head with a f*****g hammer! :-/
Cant you just logicaly see how stupid it is?
Nettie: I have to poison you, but fear not it would be painless. Tav: You crazy?! Never!!!
Halsin: I smash your head with this HUGE rock and then we try to put it back together somehow. Tav: Hells yeah! FInaly good solution.
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
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