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#802664 29/11/21 11:13 PM
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I get that there are no clocks and no semblance of time in this game, but there isn't turn based. Each round is supposed to symbolize six seconds. 10 rounds is a minute.

So, can we have proper timers on spells and potions? I shouldn't be lethargic after three rounds when I drink a potion of haste. It should last 10 rounds. The same is true for other things in the game. It's seriously depreciates the value of various things.

GM4Him #802667 29/11/21 11:25 PM
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Lots of spell effects have had their durations drastically cut down, and it's a problem. I think I got most of them in the spell focus thread, but if I've missed any do jump in ^.^

The fact that these spells now only last a round or two hugely devalues their use - I know I wouldn't willingly spend a 3rd level slot for two rounds of haste, in most situations... and Sleep only lasting two rounds now greatly undermines its utility as crowd control (along with other factors).

GM4Him #802668 29/11/21 11:43 PM
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Amen!

I hardly use haste potions now because the penalty afterwards is worse than the benefit that it provides. Give me less haste potions but give them their proper duration. Then I can use them sparingly but effectively. Same with spells. That's how they're supposed to work. Sparingly, but effectively.

Last edited by GM4Him; 29/11/21 11:45 PM.
GM4Him #802669 29/11/21 11:45 PM
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+1

GM4Him #802692 30/11/21 01:35 AM
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An issue with haste potions is that they don't require concentration (at least, they shouldn't. I don't remember if they actually do in BG3). Combined with the ~unlimited extra haste action in BG3 and the fact that they only cost a BA to drink, they're much more powerful than the 5e Haste spell. I think it's reasonable that they only last 2 rounds (3 including the same round you drink it?) : you're trading long term vulnerability for short term damage. I'm fine with them being more common but less powerful.

But a strong +1 to proper timers for spells, since those have a much larger costs associated with them. A (non-quickened) Haste spell is already weak enough RAW.

mrfuji3 #802706 30/11/21 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
An issue with haste potions is that they don't require concentration (at least, they shouldn't. I don't remember if they actually do in BG3). Combined with the ~unlimited extra haste action in BG3 and the fact that they only cost a BA to drink, they're much more powerful than the 5e Haste spell. I think it's reasonable that they only last 2 rounds (3 including the same round you drink it?) : you're trading long term vulnerability for short term damage. I'm fine with them being more common but less powerful.

But a strong +1 to proper timers for spells, since those have a much larger costs associated with them. A (non-quickened) Haste spell is already weak enough RAW.

I suppose you're right. But see, that's why homebrew is frustrating. One homebrew leads to another leads to another and the whole dang game is now homebrew. You make potions BAs and you're right, it makes potions better than spells when they should be supplements to spells.

Sigh. It's just frustrating. The point of a haste potion is that it is rare and special and allows non-mages to have haste for the same duration. If a haste spell costs an action, so should a haste potion. Likewise, if Cure Wounds is an action a healing potion should be also. Otherwise, you make cleric spells less important. I know people love BA potion cost, but it trickles down to other things. Like rogue Fast Hands. One of the main points of that ability is BA potion use. Now, Fast Hands is not as important. So many other balanced rules broken because of one homebrew choice.

And now haste potions suck. Right in the middle of a fight, I become lethargic for a round, unable to fight, whereas in true 5e I can use a haste potion and trust that the whole fight will likely be hasted, unless the enemy is really tough. I tried using haste potion during the Gith fight. Because, you know, logic and reasoning. You should use a super cool potion during major boss fights that are hard. That's what they're there for. Kill Lae'zel because of it. She became lethargic and they teamed up on her. I WAS winning, but started losing badly because of it. That's the last time I used haste potion unless I know the enemy is killable in two turns. Lame. Instead of using it to help me beat a super tough enemy, I use it to more quickly kill weak ones.

GM4Him #802734 30/11/21 08:58 AM
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It begs the question why were timers altered in the first place? Why do they so compulsively fiddle with an established ruleset?

Looking back at when I played I can recall how futile and short lived spells felt, in comparison to previous games.

Etruscan #802735 30/11/21 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Etruscan
It begs the question why were timers altered in the first place? Why do they so compulsively fiddle with an established ruleset?

Looking back at when I played I can recall how futile and short lived spells felt, in comparison to previous games.
Someone obviously came to conclusion it would be boring ...
I mean most combats in this game dont evwn last 10 rounds.


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Etruscan
It begs the question why were timers altered in the first place? Why do they so compulsively fiddle with an established ruleset?

Looking back at when I played I can recall how futile and short lived spells felt, in comparison to previous games.
Someone obviously came to conclusion it would be boring ...
I mean most combats in this game dont evwn last 10 rounds.

Source on that? Being "boring" is not an so obvious conclusion to me.

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Originally Posted by PrivateRaccoon
Source on that? Being "boring" is not an so obvious conclusion to me.

I can only assume it alludes to Swen talking about support spells being boring and that people wanted fireworks and explosions?

Etruscan #802739 30/11/21 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Etruscan
Originally Posted by PrivateRaccoon
Source on that? Being "boring" is not an so obvious conclusion to me.

I can only assume it alludes to Swen talking about support spells being boring and that people wanted fireworks and explosions?

Possible. I just saw there being other possibilities like the devs ideas around balance for example. That's why I questioned it being obvious.

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Originally Posted by PrivateRaccoon
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Etruscan
It begs the question why were timers altered in the first place? Why do they so compulsively fiddle with an established ruleset?

Looking back at when I played I can recall how futile and short lived spells felt, in comparison to previous games.
Someone obviously came to conclusion it would be boring ...
I mean most combats in this game dont evwn last 10 rounds.
Source on that? Being "boring" is not an so obvious conclusion to me.
What do you mean by source? laugh
This might be language block once again ... but in my language, when someone states "obviously" it means that this his his own conclusion that seems so ... well, obvious laugh ... that he dont even understand how can anyone else not come to that. O_o

So, just to be clear, since "obviously" just states itself that this is matter of my conclusion ... there is (again that cursed word) "obviously" no source, unless you wanted picture of my brain. laugh In that case im sory, but i dont share intimate photos until at least dinner. :P :P :P

And if you were asking how i came to that conslusion ...
Its combination of several factors:
- What we have in this game ...
- Swen multiple times and repeately telling us that in his opinion Tabletop rules dont translate well to Video Games ...
- Swen telling us that their main and foremost focus is give us good game we can have fun with and enjoy ...
And simmilar stuff.


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by PrivateRaccoon
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Etruscan
It begs the question why were timers altered in the first place? Why do they so compulsively fiddle with an established ruleset?

Looking back at when I played I can recall how futile and short lived spells felt, in comparison to previous games.
Someone obviously came to conclusion it would be boring ...
I mean most combats in this game dont evwn last 10 rounds.
Source on that? Being "boring" is not an so obvious conclusion to me.
What do you mean by source? laugh
This might be language block once again ... but in my language, when someone states "obviously" it means that this his his own conclusion that seems so ... well, obvious laugh ... that he dont even understand how can anyone else not come to that. O_o

So, just to be clear, since "obviously" just states itself that this is matter of my conclusion ... there is (again that cursed word) "obviously" no source, unless you wanted picture of my brain. laugh In that case im sory, but i dont share intimate photos until at least dinner. :P :P :P

And if you were asking how i came to that conslusion ...
Its combination of several factors:
- What we have in this game ...
- Swen multiple times and repeately telling us that in his opinion Tabletop rules dont translate well to Video Games ...
- Swen telling us that their main and foremost focus is give us good game we can have fun with and enjoy ...
And simmilar stuff.

I do apologize if you took it as a personal attack Rag, that wasn't my intention. And I see now it was just a cultural difference, lost in translation.

GM4Him #802766 30/11/21 02:42 PM
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Not at all. ^_^ (Hope i didnt offend you either)
I just have good mood, so im a little overeacting while not taking it seriously. laugh

Its all fun and games. laugh

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 30/11/21 02:43 PM.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Not at all. ^_^ (Hope i didnt offend you either)
I just have good mood, so im a little overeacting while not taking it seriously. laugh

Its all fun and games. laugh

No worries. As you're aware, I will let people know when I feel it's time for them to apologize smile

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
- What we have in this game ...
- Swen multiple times and repeately telling us that in his opinion Tabletop rules dont translate well to Video Games ...
- Swen telling us that their main and foremost focus is give us good game we can have fun with and enjoy ...
And simmilar stuff.

And this is what concerns me because Swen seems to take the position that he speaks for everyone; that's pretty arrogant and misguided.

Tabletop rules translated pretty well in the previous games, albeit with a range of amendments to translate better to a video game. They were fun and people enjoyed them immensely. Larian seem to constantly want to put round pegs in square holes, rather than just trying to work within the ruleset.

GM4Him #802778 30/11/21 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
But see, that's why homebrew is frustrating. One homebrew leads to another leads to another and the whole dang game is now homebrew.
[...]
And now haste potions suck. Right in the middle of a fight, I become lethargic for a round, unable to fight, whereas in true 5e I can use a haste potion and trust that the whole fight will likely be hasted, unless the enemy is really tough. I tried using haste potion during the Gith fight. Because, you know, logic and reasoning. You should use a super cool potion during major boss fights that are hard. That's what they're there for. Kill Lae'zel because of it. She became lethargic and they teamed up on her. I WAS winning, but started losing badly because of it. That's the last time I used haste potion unless I know the enemy is killable in two turns. Lame. Instead of using it to help me beat a super tough enemy, I use it to more quickly kill weak ones.
That's fair. If a potion has a bigger downside than upside or is only useful to speed up tedium, then that's probably an indicator that things should be changed. I could agree that the duration of haste potions should be increased. But without making them cost an Action to drink (which would then make drinking healing potions in combat ineffective), a full 10 turns is too long imo. 1 more round of Haste might be a good compromise - more powerful but not too powerful?

I also understand your desire for haste potions to be incredibly rare but also incredibly powerful. I'd be okay with that implementation too; it'd also help slightly with inventory management!

Etruscan #802779 30/11/21 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Etruscan
And this is what concerns me because Swen seems to take the position that he speaks for everyone;
I would never say that Swen is trying to talk for everyone ...
He is simply talking in behalf of his company that is creating this game ... and yes, they are creating it exactly as they see fit ... i know its a hard pill to swallow, but that is something that every company ever did, and its in no way no shady business, even some people seems to think that. :-/

I can see some of those people asking why they opened Early Acess then, when they dont want to create this game the way we want it, but want to stay in course they want ...
And i believe answer is simple here:
[Linked Image from miro.medium.com]

Seriously tho. laugh
The reason is simple ... more people, more opinions, more ideas ... they opened Early Acess to know our opinions ... nothing more, nothing less ...
Now they gather our opinions and they concider them ... some are throwed away imediatly (like Real time with pause), bcs those are things they specificly told us they will never ever do ... some are concidered (or at least i hope) ... some are allready accepted and they are curently working on proper implementation ... and some are allready implemented (weighted dice, remove AoE effects on cantrips, etc.) ...

In short: We are here to provide our opinion ... and that is what we do ... they are here to provide us their game ... and that is what they do. wink
In perfect world our wishes and their visions would be the same ... but we are not living in perfect world, also we are not even able agree with each other about how should this game lookalike. laugh
So we just have to remember that no matter what we want, or how many of us want that, this is still first and foremost their game, and therefore their vision will set the course. smile

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 30/11/21 04:52 PM.

If my comments bother you, there is nothing easier than telling me to stop.
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mrfuji3 #802780 30/11/21 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
I also understand your desire for haste potions to be incredibly rare but also incredibly powerful. I'd be okay with that implementation too; it'd also help slightly with inventory management!
And how about having "concentrated Haste Potion" that will be extremely rare and will give you haste (and lethargy) for 10 rounds ...
But also have "Haste Potion" that will give you the same for 4 rounds?


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
And how about having "concentrated Haste Potion" that will be extremely rare and will give you haste (and lethargy) for 10 rounds ...
But also have "Haste Potion" that will give you the same for 4 rounds?
Sure. Larian could also label the first a "Potion of Haste" and the latter a "Potion of Speed."

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