Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Fixing the ceremorphosis plot hole

It does bother me that the most of an explanation we have given is from Omelum, and that is contradicted by how we see the parasites work with the True Souls we meet-the Parasite leaves the body when the host is killed, and can indeed be separated from the host physically. Considering we have a scroll of True Resurrection available and the ability for our characters to die in-game, it's kinda weird that we don't get party members pointing out how our parasite didn't leave our skull when, if for example asterion drains you in his reveal cutscene. Considering how casually the game treats death and resurrection both in gameplay terms and plotwise (asterion's reaction to you coming back from that incident is to basically brush it off, and several companions have special dialogue now in case you kill and resurrect them prior to having them join you)

There isn't really much of a barrier between gameplay death and story death in BGIII. Your characters are *actually* dead when they go down like that, not abstracted as being 'knocked out' in other games, and there's multiple dialogues acknowledging this and an entire sidequest (withers the lich) devoted to giving you easy access to resurrection.

I mean, hell, Gale has to actually die to even get the scroll in the first place. You'd think the skull+hammer+resurrection solution would bear some greater in-game discussion.

But why were the acolytes of True Soul Edowyn ordered to kill everyone, including true souls, that escaped from the crashed ship ?
Doesn't that mean that there was something special going on in this ship, which was menacing to the absolute. Different tadpoles.

Guys. The main party is different than other True Souls. It's said multiple times. The main characters have slipped their chain. Is it because of the goth weapon? Kinda seems like it could be.

But give Larian some slack. This is EA. You shouldn't know everything by the end of it. You should know practically nothing. The art of good storytelling is to hook the audience and keep them hooked one mystery at a time. You don't reveal all the secrets in the first 25% of the story. Of course it's going to seem like plot holes at this point. You have no idea what is coming.

Now, if by the end they haven't wrapped up the plot holes, THEN we can criticize. But until then, you have no idea what is an actual plot hole.

Time: 7:50

The ship was going to Moonrise towers. There was some dialogue added in some of the later patches for party members where they make the connection between the True Souls, Mindflayers, and the pary and conclude that the only thing seperating them from being Like Glut or Minthara was that the ship crashed before it arrived and their conversion wass complete.



It's because we aren't controlled. That's the distinction. There's nothing at all indicating our tadpoles are any different than the ones the True Souls have-and thus no explanation to why our tadpoles can't be removed after character death.


Why comment at all then? Seems like an uneven standard if you are suggesting criticism specifically should be verboten. You yourself don't seem to have a problem speculating and extrapolating on game plot elements of this unfinished product, IMO it is unreasonable to expect others to hold their tongues.

Besides, this is EA, and we are on the 'Suggestions and Feedback' forum. This is *the* time and place for discussions like this.

I'm referring to judging the game's story and saying it's full of plot holes when we only know 25% of the story. I mean, you can certainly do that, but it's premature, don't you think?

It's like watching 15 minutes of Star Wars and critiquing the plot of the movie and saying it doesn't make any sense. You don't know what they have planned for the tadpoles in the main character. That's my point. We can speculate and guess, but until we get more game, I just think it's a bit harsh to start saying the story has a bunch of plot holes.

Now, if you were to say, "Wait. My MC helping Minthara slaughter the Grove makes no sense. That's odd. She literally gives me no clear motivation." That is critiquing something that we have a full and complete picture on. Or, if you said, "Halsin and Aradin and company were gone for over a month and a half doing what exactly in that temple ruins 5 minutes jog away?" That is also a solid critique because we should be given all the data for that but we aren't and it makes no sense. Were the goblins there prior to the adventurers' arrival? After? Were they studying the sealed door when the goblins showed up so they became trapped down there? After all, Brian's notes imply he was actually in the chamber. If so, did they literally sneak in past Gut and her female ogre guardian or were they down there already? That's a substantial feat to sneak past them because DANG, right past Gut's room?

Why does Minthara think Aradin and his companions have the weapon? If you visit her after talking to Nere, she makes it clear she thought Aradin's crew had the weapon and stole it and are hiding in the Grove. Why? Wasn't it on the ship?

These are things that don't make sense, but they are all contained within EA. Once you leave EA, these things most likely won't come up again, so by the end of EA, they should be clear and make sense,

What I'm saying is, yes, if it is a story element that isn't going to be a continuing part of the overall story, by all means it should make total sense by end of EA. But I don't think we should understand the full measure of the tadpoles and such until way later.

That said, IF they are just doing crap for video game purposes and offering weak excuses to try to make it work, then I am absolutely against that. If they legit don't have an explanation that is truly valid for Gale's resurrection bit, or why when we die our tadpoles don't run off, then yeah, that sucks and they need to either fix it or chuck it.

And keep in mind, no one is an expert with these tadpoles. Omeluum is also just guessing. So is Ethel, and Gut and Minthara and Ragzlin are utterly deceived. Gut doesn't even realize she is infected. So just because an explanation of any kind is offered, it doesn't mean it's true. Just because your characters speculate that their tadpoles are no different than Gut's and such, doesn't mean they aren't, in fact, special. If they weren't really special, then why is the Dream Lover ONLY messing with you and yours? Why is Raphael ONLY after you and yours?

That's interesting that Minthara thinks Aradin took the weapon, does she say from Nere? Does that mean it came from the temple or the forge? Did the nautiloid/SH start there?

As far as I can remember, everyone who is taken to Moonrise either don't understand or don't remember what is done to them there. Either our batch is special for reasons yet unknown, or the fact that the process was interrupted makes us objects of interest.

And we know that the Gith weapon is also a key player. It is clear that it is helping thwart the Absolute's hold on us. So, could IT actually be what caused us to break free from the Absolute to begin with?

Here. Take a look at this video. I'd never tried this myself, and when I saw this, I was like, "Wait! Now that REALLY doesn't make sense."

I mean, she's clearly talking about one of Aradin's party that they're interrogating, and she firmly believes they're hiding the weapon in the grove? What???

It does, at least, explain a bit more why Minthara is so bent on wiping the grove out, but then, was she just happy to see the nautiloid because she knew there would be new converts?

Nah. If she didn't think the weapon was on the nautiloid, then the only thing that makes sense is that she was happy to see it because she knew SPECIAL True Souls - YOU - were on board.

Me thinks that's why Gut even says "Now here's someone special," and why Minthara says, "This one's one of the Absolute's favorites."

Oh yes. I'm certain we are more special than that we simply didn't get to Moonrise to complete our training. No. I'll wager there something so much more, which is why we're even able to manipulate the minds of other True Souls - like with the Ragzlin scene where you can influence him and take over the interrogation of the mind flayer.

There is definitely a reason to believe that not being indoctrinated is not the only way our party differs from the True Souls. When you do a mind meld with Gut, she sees something in you. I don't remember the dialog verbatim, but she calls it "strange shadows swimming around in your head" and offers to help remove them. Similar language, "Shadow Netherese magic", is used by Ethel when she tries to extract the tadpole. It's possible Gut senses this "shadow" magic in you and just can't identify it as Netherese. This is notable, because if every tadpole has been altered with these "shadows", Gut would have seen them in other True Souls and wouldn't have offered to remove ours. So it's possible that this Netherese Shadow magic is not just a standard modification all True Souls have, but something unique to our party.

This is pure conjecture of course, but everything regarding the tadpoles is at this stage. It's something of a running theme in the game: there are a lot of factions involved in this conflict, and none of them have complete or reliable information.

If that was relevant, then it wouldn't be able to bring Gale back.

Ah yes. Gale. What IS the deal with him? Something even more special about him. Eh?

He is literally the only character in the game who is infected who you DON'T connect with. Everyone else, you have a Vulcan mind meld with as soon as you meet them. Not Gale. Oh no.

One thing to also keep in mind with shadow magic. It doesn't play by the rules. That's kinda the point of it. Shar created the Shadow Weave to be able to cast spells outside the rules Mystra established for the Weave.

So, I think - and again, we don't have a ton of real information, so who really knows - that although our souls are not free, our characters can still be resurrected as long as their tadpoles are alive.

The BG series has always been about the main character being "infected" by godhood. In BG3, I think the tadpoles in the mains are doing just that. They are turning the PC's into immortal gods. That's why Larian is perfect for the game. They've literally made 2 highly successful "I'm becoming a god" games.

I think the game has been rather clear. The dialogues with Halsin and Omeluum (?) reveal that there is more than physical presence in your brain that binds it to you. It is bound by magic and can not be mechanically removed. The mindflayer does mention that even death can not separate you from it.