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#803140 05/12/21 11:10 AM
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Well, if the game is to actually be released in fully finished form in 2022 (which is about 3 weeks away from debuting btw), I would think we should be seeing a LOT more activity (like races/classes with their ability trees) actually folded into the preview version.
I know they don't want to release much more of the world (*shame given how limited the pre-release version is and how many world problems we've found in playing it*), but they gotta stop squatting and actually give us MORE if they want it tested before release. Of course, I don't actually expect release till Thanksgiving or pre-Christmas 2022, but hey we can hope?

dbarron #803149 05/12/21 01:02 PM
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We allways "can hope" ... but when we do, we should expect disapointment. laugh

I mean, as i multiple repeated in last few weeks Swen litteraly told us that they will keep (and im not sure if he said "races" or "some races") hidden as surprise for release ... so i would not keep my expectations high for that one.

About classes and ability trees ... we have ben told that now it will take some time before they release another class ... so again, dont keep your hopes too high ...
Same with subclasses ... i mean there isnt much to test for us, as long as they keep spells doing that they are suppose to do, it should be quite fine.

It pesonaly worries me bot for a little different reason. :-/
I cant shake the feeling that last tested class will be the worse, no matter wich it will be ... simply bcs the closer we are to finish the game, the harder it would be for Larian to adjust anything. :-/ And while i dont wish to be anyhow pesimistic or toxic, seeing Druid and Sorcerer (especialy Sorcerer, especialy Chromatic Orb), i cant help but fear that they cannot manage to make it corect on first try, something keeps pushing them to differ from that "booring 5e" to their "fun and sparkles". :-/

But who knows, maybe i will be surprised pleasantly. smile


Short coment on my English. smile

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
dbarron #803152 05/12/21 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by dbarron
Well, if the game is to actually be released in fully finished form in 2022 (which is about 3 weeks away from debuting btw), I would think we should be seeing a LOT more activity (like races/classes with their ability trees) actually folded into the preview version.
I know they don't want to release much more of the world (*shame given how limited the pre-release version is and how many world problems we've found in playing it*), but they gotta stop squatting and actually give us MORE if they want it tested before release. Of course, I don't actually expect release till Thanksgiving or pre-Christmas 2022, but hey we can hope?


I think 2023 is also very likely. Keep in mind, every time they have to do an update to the EA release it pulls resources from the main work. It is honestly best if we don't hear from them because it means they are focused on the primary game build. I'm just happy so many people are excited about this game, and I can't wait to see the full release but I am trying to temper my expectations.


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dbarron #803155 05/12/21 02:17 PM
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Yeah, I'm probably trying to make it make more sense. I mean the fact that we don't have much in the way of physical combat classes to test...doesn't really mean anything, right (yes, sarcasm)? I think they should put EVERYTHING to the test before 'release' but that's just me.

dbarron #803157 05/12/21 02:41 PM
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BG3 is a long, long way from being a finished game. I wouldn’t plan on a full release in 2022.

I would much prefer to see Larian fix all the bugs and issues with existing combat mechanics, spells, and abilities before adding new content.

dbarron #803182 05/12/21 08:10 PM
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I would say Q3 2023 is the likely release date.

dbarron #803184 05/12/21 08:43 PM
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I’m on the “late 2023” train as well.

The game is nine kinds of imbalanced or broken, the combat is missing core features, a truckload of optimization still needs to go into every aspect of the design.

Imagine how much work will need to go into the enemy AI alone when Larian caves and makes shove a full action.

Last edited by Flooter; 06/12/21 09:44 AM. Reason: punctuation

TRIBE!
dbarron #803196 06/12/21 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by dbarron
Well, if the game is to actually be released in fully finished form in 2022 (which is about 3 weeks away from debuting btw), I would think we should be seeing a LOT more activity (like races/classes with their ability trees) actually folded into the preview version.
I know they don't want to release much more of the world (*shame given how limited the pre-release version is and how many world problems we've found in playing it*), but they gotta stop squatting and actually give us MORE if they want it tested before release. Of course, I don't actually expect release till Thanksgiving or pre-Christmas 2022, but hey we can hope?

This game is definitely a while out, at least from what we can see in the Early Access.

One thing I disagree with in a big way is that Early Access is 'limited'. If you do all of the Early Access content in this game I'd say it would take a good 30-50 hours to complete. That is about three times more than Divinity: Original Sin 2 gave us and 30-50 hours is more than most fully released AAA titles. For example I recently played God of War (2018) and Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy... both very good games that I beat in 20-25 hours... and neither of those games had even close to the depth that Baldur's Gate 3 does in terms of narrative choices, classes, spells, etc.

Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access literally has more content than most fully released games and people are saying that the content is 'limited'. That is crazy.

dbarron #803198 06/12/21 01:50 AM
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I don't think time spent is a good metric when one game runs smoothly and seamlessly and is active gameplay the whole way through... and the other has you doing 20 minutes of inventory management and fighting with the UI for every hour of engaged gameplay.

BG3 up to the newest content (not including grymforge was of the latest patch, as I've not done the metric on that yet) has ~50 combat or combat-like encounters, each of which more or less always play out the same way, and each of which, once done, are done and offer nothing further. No, that's not, in my opinion, "more content than most fully released games"

Niara #803200 06/12/21 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Niara
I don't think time spent is a good metric when one game runs smoothly and seamlessly and is active gameplay the whole way through... and the other has you doing 20 minutes of inventory management and fighting with the UI for every hour of engaged gameplay.

BG3 up to the newest content (not including grymforge was of the latest patch, as I've not done the metric on that yet) has ~50 combat or combat-like encounters, each of which more or less always play out the same way, and each of which, once done, are done and offer nothing further. No, that's not, in my opinion, "more content than most fully released games"

Right, it is Early Access. So there will be things that chew into your time given that it is still being polished. But the point still stands. Obviously no one is arguing that a game clearly in Early Access is as polished as a game that is fully released and/or has been out for years.

There are a multitude of choices in terms of classes, races, character customization, dialogue choices, equipment, etc. that some of these other games do not have... but Baldur's Gate 3 does. Baldur's Gate 3 is a very deep game with a multitude of different things going on where you could play it twice and experience completely different outcomes. The other two games I mentioned have a linear story where none of that is possible and the game plays about the same regardless of what 'options' you pick.

This is not to say one type of game is better or worse. Just that one game gives you more gameplay time and more options in just about every conceivable way than some fully released games... and obviously it is not 'polished' yet because it is in Early Access. But to say that is 'limited' is madness.

For instance I think I have 42 hours played of BG3 Early Access. Because of that I already consider it worth the $60 I pay because I don't put 42 hours into most games that are released. Some games you can play twice and not get 42 hours of entertainment out of them. BG3's Early Access (and this is an opinion of mine, not anything objective) has entertained me so much I'd like to play through it again with different choices but I am holding back because I want to wait for the full release... this is because I know I put in 42 hours, but if I put in another 42 the experience would be almost completely different than my first go around.

dbarron #803204 06/12/21 07:54 AM
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I don't know...I feel that more than a year in Early Access is kinda ridiculous. Of course when I look back at the original release with all it's issue, what we have now is significantly different than the original, which seemed barely playable.
I should love to see a timeline put forth by Larian (yes, I know we won't)

Last edited by dbarron; 06/12/21 01:09 PM.
dbarron #803247 06/12/21 06:26 PM
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Sven was already mentioning 2023 as a possibility, so I honestly don't expect for BG3 to release in 2022. Late 2022 is still a possibility of course, but it seems to me that Larian expects it to slip into 2023 already.

dbarron #803248 06/12/21 06:58 PM
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Normally a game spending years in EA is not a good sign. I'd guess development is not going smoothly.

dbarron #803252 06/12/21 07:44 PM
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There's no fixed amount of time a game should spend in EA (or development in general) to be good and it doesn't even make sense to assume there should be, given that every project is a story on its own, potentially with massive differences in size, scope, complexity, etc.

That said, I can't deny that so far I found the pace of the changes/improvements jarring to say the least.
Feedback gets hardly ever addressed explicitly, when the demand is satisfied some of the most requested fixes are introduced almost stealthily and even minor tweaks are taking forever to be implemented. We are past a full year of EA (which according to the early, most optimistic estimations was supposed to be the length of the thing in its entirety) and most of what we got so far can be summarized in: "one class and half and a new minor area".

We also got a certain amount of additional polish, but that's almost more worrying than comforting, given that even things that got a new coat of paint (i.e. new cinematic and dialogues) are still looking fairly rough and nowhere near where I expected them to be one year later.


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
Tuco #803256 06/12/21 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Tuco
"one class and half three classes and a new minor area".
Fixed for you. Sorcerers are so awesome they count as 2!

Last edited by Icelyn; 06/12/21 08:45 PM.
Tuco #803262 06/12/21 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Tuco
There's no fixed amount of time a game should spend in EA (or development in general) to be good and it doesn't even make sense to assume there should be, given that every project is a story on its own, potentially with massive differences in size, scope, complexity, etc.

That said, I can't deny that so far I found the pace of the changes/improvements jarring to say the least.
Feedback gets hardly ever addressed explicitly, when the demand is satisfied some of the most requested fixes are introduced almost stealthily and even minor tweaks are taking forever to be implemented. We are past a full year of EA (which according to the early, most optimistic estimations was supposed to be the length of the thing in its entirety) and most of what we got so far can be summarized in: "one class and half and a new minor area".

We also got a certain amount of additional polish, but that's almost more worrying than comforting, given that even things that got a new coat of paint (i.e. new cinematic and dialogues) are still looking fairly rough and nowhere near where I expected them to be one year later.
Statistically speaking there is no successfull major launch that spent over 2 years in EA. Games are usually launched in EA for tweeking in the last year of development, this includes DOS2, which by then was an indie title.
I'm worried that for over 1 year of EA they've advanced very little, that with a massive 400 person team.

dbarron #803265 06/12/21 09:33 PM
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My coin remains on its edge. C'mon Larian, you can do this! City of Brass!

Word on the street is that D&D 6E may show up in 2024.

Argyle #803269 06/12/21 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Argyle
My coin remains on its edge. C'mon Larian, you can do this! City of Brass!

Word on the street is that D&D 6E may show up in 2024.
It won't be 6E. During the interview where they teased this new product it was said that it'll be fully compatible with 5E, therefore it is probably a revision, like 3.5E.

Last edited by Danielbda; 06/12/21 09:51 PM.
Danielbda #803271 06/12/21 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Danielbda
Statistically speaking there is no successfull major launch that spent over 2 years in EA. Games are usually launched in EA for tweeking in the last year of development, this includes DOS2, which by then was an indie title.
I'm worried that for over 1 year of EA they've advanced very little, that with a massive 400 person team.

Subnautica, Fortnite, Ark, and Rust are four titles of recent memory that spent 2-5 years in EA and still living strong to this day. BG3 is and always was meant to be Act 1 only, the majority of progress and development is outside of public view and was always meant to be. What there is to be said about communication and discussing feedback is another matter of course. But judging BG3 specifically on progress based on what is seen in EA isn't really operating on the same field that us gamers are typically associating early access games with.

dbarron #803273 06/12/21 10:46 PM
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Well, I've already got my money worth with BG3 with 150+ hours of very good quality game despite many issues. Even if they need 3 more years, I'll wait, if it means that they'll deliver quality product. My only annoyance is that in the beginning of their EA they specifically asked us to play evil playthrough for a feedback and then completely ignored that feedback. Not nice of them. I also dislike how after a year of development the game performs twice or thrice worse than it was initially. Are they aiming for the top end GPUs, which you cannot even buy now?

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