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Yaaj Offline OP
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For one reason or another everytime I play this game my characters hit a bug in the skill system - mostly from broken skills. What I'd like is a stright answer from a developer, not you fans, on which skills are still broken and when they will be fixed. It's [nocando] annoying knowing I wasted $50 US on this game and I can't even play it as advertised on the back of the box.

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Did you apply the latest patch?


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Yes, I've played the game with the lastest patch. And, no the patch doesn't fix the broken skills - skills that are used for the only three builds that I'm interested in playing in this game.

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you mean the ranged skills??


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For two of my builds, yes ranged skills (pure archer using bow and crossbow, and a archer/mage). Then there's my necromancer build, but that won't work because resurrection and command are still buggy (command crashes the game the second it's used, and I've forgotten what's wrong with resurrection but I rememeber it being buggy as well).

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Archers are over powered as it is, so the little bit of missed damage from not being able to effectively use True Shot or Crossbow Expertise is not significant (the speed bonus of the crossbow skill works).
If you run into the problems with Aura of Command or summoned / resurrected creatures, that would pretty much disable a summoner / necromancer style, though.

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I don't care if archer are over powered. That's not the point. The point is on the back of the box it advertises, in bold font I might add, there are 96 working skills in the game. So I expect 96 working skills. Maybe the concept of getting what you paid for is lost on you.

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Well, you could say the same about censored software. If a game is censored here in Germany because of its violence, we here in Germany don't get the full game, we get a - more or les "crippled" game (or do you think green blood is natural ?) You could easily apply it to that as well.

About "getting what you paied for" : We here in Germany won't get the full speech of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> because Ubi Soft seemingly says that this is too expensive. From a point of view, we here in Germany get a "crippled" game, too. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

I think it's mostly up to interpretation.

Although I agree that I would like to see one last Patch for <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> for all those things which still need to be fixed.


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Well there's a difference between getting a "crippled" game and getting a game that doesn't work as advertised. The "crippled" most likely won't advertise full speech in the game if it isn't in. That's false advertising, and the state I live in we have strict laws against it. If I wanted to be an [nocando]-hole I could sue both CDV and Larian for false advertising and get a nice sum of cash out of it, but I'm not I'll get just my $50 back if it comes down to it - I'm still waiting on a reply from CDV for a refund. I guess I learned my lesson; never buy from amatur developers.

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Good idea. Professional developers' programs never have any bugs. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" />

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Where did I say that proven developers don't produce games without bugs? Re-read my post and point it out to me. No really, I would like to see when I said that. Don't put words in my mouth, [nocando]. God I hate morons.

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You are complaining about bugs in Divinity, claiming the broken skills make the game unplayable, though the 2 broken ranged skills have no significant impact on that character type.

Next you say you've learnt you lesson and will never buy from 'amateur' developers.

Now, if you were not implying any kind of relationship between 'amateur' developers and bugs, then why would the latter teach you a lesson about avoiding the former?

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And i hate people that think they can sue everyone. (Are you American????) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

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Carrie! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I hate you to!

I'm sueing you! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/memad.gif" alt="" />



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Can't get blood from a stone. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

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I don't care if archer are over powered. That's not the point. The point is on the back of the box it advertises, in bold font I might add, there are 96 working skills in the game. So I expect 96 working skills. Maybe the concept of getting what you paid for is lost on you.



now wait a minute.

you would sue 50 dollers. 5, 0. 50. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> go all the way to Europe, thats more then 50.


and you'd sue. for 2 skills. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> 2 skills??? AND YOU WOULD SUE!? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" />


2 friggen skills??? BWAH. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" />

and, checks, it doesn't say WORKING.

doesn't promise they will work. just that they're in there. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />



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yap, i can understand yaaj. its kind of frustrating buying a game, starting to play and lateron getting to realize that the version aint functioning the correct way. also your old savegames will be lost if you use the patches. very nice indeed <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sad.gif" alt="" />

still i think the problem is not the developers but the marketing division. those people dont know what theyre doing. e.g. they want to sell their product before x-mas for all the nice presents meaning a lot of nice money....it doesnt matter at all if the developers tell them not to be ready yet. this is a f***** up marketing world.

still they are loosing the game, for only passionate players will buy such products. people who just want to play once or twice will stop buying any new games on the market for all the trouble this causes. at last we all end up waiting for games that are 2 years old and price reduced. which aint fair - the developers spend a lot of work in products like dd.

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[color:"orange"]also your old savegames will be lost if you use the patches.[/color]

No, they won't. Some of the story fixes are not applied retroactively, but all of the technical fixes and changes (extra quicksave, etc) do work with previous saves.

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id very much like if it were true, but: yes, they did that to the german version. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sad.gif" alt="" /> youre lucky, raze!!!

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hmmm isn't the sueing proces more expensive then the 50 bux you spent on the game? it's pretty weird to be sueing for a couple of broken skills..but oh well...


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Yaaj you are brilliant. Not only that, you are completely right. The box did indeed say 96 skills, and 2, that's right 2 skills aren't working. Not 1, but 2. This is definitely something you should be pounding money out of.

But why stop there? My new hairdryer didn't come with a "don't use to bash in your own skull" warning. And the applepie I bought earlier on didn't come with a "may contain apples" warning, even though I'm allergic to apples! Are these people trying to get me killed?

Well it's time to sue the nation, sue the world and sue the corporation, those idiots don't know what they're sayin'.

All hail America, land of the free! Free to chose between Wendy's and McDonalds! Free to say anything you want, unless you say bad things about America, in which case we'll call you un-patriotic, and hunt you down like the dog you are. Free to listen and watch TV programmes especially designed to brainwash and manipulate you so that you believe America is the best place in the world, and that you become braindead consumers for the benefit of the economy (i.e. the wallets of those corporate pigs)!

And if any of you non-American countries don't like it, we'll bomb you, and call you ragheads, gooks, communists or nazis.

Three freaking cheers for America!

*AHEM*

So anyway, go ahead. Get your $50 back. You crybaby.


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That was the funniest, coolest rant I've ever read Tovi!
I'm still laughing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />


" Road rage, air rage. Why should I be forced to divide my rage into seperate categories? To me, it's just one big, all-around, everyday rage. I don't have time for distinctions. I'm too busy screaming at people. " -George Carlin
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Sounds to me like someone is just a little bit jealous of Americans to me..could this really be true???Its funny you very seldom see people who want give up there US citizenship,but we always have our hands full with people wanting to live in the USA and become a citizen. I guess I am just part of the propaganda machine.Oh well,I will just come right out and say that your comments were very offensive to me. I did not see anything humorous about your rant,but you have the right to say them no matter how foolish and imature and untrue your statements.


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maybe it doesn't sound true to american, and pretty offensive...but i believe many people outside america will see the humor in it and some truth for that matter...


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Lord Fess, to be honest, there exists - at least in the German Forums I know about - some kind of subtle "anti-americanism", simply because American Publishers usually go after the rule "bigger, better, first". I don't like this policy.

My favourite examples are the handbook for Baldur's Gate, which was shortened for the German version, leaving the AD&D rules completely out, the Icewind Dale soundtrack that wasn't sold outside the US, the special edition of Pools of Radiance 2 , which was entirely different to the european special edition (and the european SE was only made after long consideration), crappy voices in games (worst : Crusaders of Might & Magic, where the Skeletons, which should be frightened, sound like a group of teenies meeting their idol for the first time), no translations at all (considering the fact that a game wouldn't have much success in the US while it completely stays in German and has only the handbook translated), and releasing games in the US first (like Age of Wonders : Shadow Magic, which was released in america first, even although the developers are from the Netherlands).

"Bigger, better, first". That's how it goes.

I try to be objective, but I cannot feel "right" about these examples.

And that's partly the reason why I'm so proud about German games - Gothic, Far Cry, Sacred ... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Please just keep in mind that everything's about different cultures. We here in Germany shake the heads about many things we hear from the US, and vice versa.




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Sounds to me like someone is just a little bit jealous of Americans to me..could this really be true???Its funny you very seldom see people who want give up there US citizenship,but we always have our hands full with people wanting to live in the USA and become a citizen. I guess I am just part of the propaganda machine.Oh well,I will just come right out and say that your comments were very offensive to me. I did not see anything humorous about your rant,but you have the right to say them no matter how foolish and imature and untrue your statements.


Yeah well as an Englishman living in America I have a somewhat unique perspective on the issue. People are bashed for saying un-American things. You are made to feel an outcast or stupid because you simply cannot understand how some people can be so arrogant, naive and blind to events in the rest of the world.
Also I am jealous. Americans have access to more resources than almost the rest of the world put together AND they are squandering them. My uncle who is out in Indianna tells me they have dozens of capped oil wells there. Opec is making damn sure we bleed the rest of the world dry before they use the precious home reserves. God forbid they should switch to re-useable resources or have cars which are lean-burning.
Nope, we have 4L chevvy's and 12mpg here. Why? Because we can!

People want to live here because of the richness. Myself included. If the bubble bursts I'll be out of here though. Back to a place with a little culture. As long as it hasn't become the 51st state.........

Rant rant rant.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


" Road rage, air rage. Why should I be forced to divide my rage into seperate categories? To me, it's just one big, all-around, everyday rage. I don't have time for distinctions. I'm too busy screaming at people. " -George Carlin
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Sounds to me like someone is just a little bit jealous of Americans to me..could this really be true???Its funny you very seldom see people who want give up there US citizenship,but we always have our hands full with people wanting to live in the USA and become a citizen. I guess I am just part of the propaganda machine.Oh well,I will just come right out and say that your comments were very offensive to me. I did not see anything humorous about your rant,but you have the right to say them no matter how foolish and imature and untrue your statements.


Yeah well as an Englishman living in America I have a somewhat unique perspective on the issue. People are bashed for saying un-American things. You are made to feel an outcast or stupid because you simply cannot understand how some people can be so arrogant, naive and blind to events in the rest of the world.
Also I am jealous. Americans have access to more resources than almost the rest of the world put together AND they are squandering them. My uncle who is out in Indianna tells me they have dozens of capped oil wells there. Opec is making damn sure we bleed the rest of the world dry before they use the precious home reserves. God forbid they should switch to re-useable resources or have cars which are lean-burning.
Nope, we have 4L chevvy's and 12mpg here. Why? Because we can!

People want to live here because of the richness. Myself included. If the bubble bursts I'll be out of here though. Back to a place with a little culture. As long as it hasn't become the 51st state.........

Rant rant rant.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Gosh this is sooo strange.I have lived here all my life...and it seems to me that the hateful bashing and political correctness mindset crowd are made up of the
socalled liberal free thinkers who IMHO are a much more dominant mind controlling force in America today.They seem go to great lengths to alienate those that don't conform to the way they think the world ought to be.
This is a game forum and IMHO not a forum for political venting..soo this with
this statement I will not comment further.


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Oh of course.... That's who was telling me I couldn't wear my anti-war shirt. The liberal free thinkers. (actually it was my wife, who fears for me speaking my mind <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />)
Don't brand me with that iron, ever. The so-called 'liberals' are just another brand of right-wing government. I can't ever imagine a socialist party starting over here. Still, communist ideals are long forgotten and almost every politician I see is only out to serve his own goals.
A government for the people, by the people? Balls.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />


" Road rage, air rage. Why should I be forced to divide my rage into seperate categories? To me, it's just one big, all-around, everyday rage. I don't have time for distinctions. I'm too busy screaming at people. " -George Carlin
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Well, I must admit that goes goes into politics now. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

People are generally influenced by their culture(s) and culture influences (to a certain degree) their opinions.


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Yaaj Offline OP
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Okay, where to begin....

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You are complaining about bugs in Divinity, claiming the broken skills make the game unplayable, though the 2 broken ranged skills have no significant impact on that character type.


You're totally missing the point. If you'd stop being a blind fanboi for a second you'd realize that it doesn't matter if the six broken/bugged skills make the game unplayible or not. Now read this next statement very carefully; I bought the game off of the promise that there is "480 skill levels: 96 skills with 5 levels each 6 classes of characters" and with the game is in it's current state there's only 450 skill levels and 90 skills that work in the game; that's 60 skill levels and 6 skills less then promised.


Quote
Next you say you've learnt you lesson and will never buy from 'amateur' developers.

Now, if you were not implying any kind of relationship between 'amateur' developers and bugs, then why would the latter teach you a lesson about avoiding the former?



It's been my experence when buying games from developers/publishers that are new to that gaming industry that their frist product will be bug-ridden, Divine Dininty is a perfect example, and that they'll fix a few of the bugs then move onto the next game while leaving first game bug-ridden.

Quote

And i hate people that think they can sue everyone. (Are you American????)



Yes. The state I live in has two laws in the book to protect customers that are stuck with buggy products so they can get a refund IF the developer/publisher won't allow a refund.


Quote
now wait a minute.

you would sue 50 dollers. 5, 0. 50. go all the way to Europe, thats more then 50.

and you'd sue. for 2 skills. 2 skills??? AND YOU WOULD SUE!?

2 friggen skills??? BWAH.

and, checks, it doesn't say WORKING.

doesn't promise they will work. just that they're in there.


As I have said; it doesn't not matter if it's one skill, or in this games case, six skills. And, no I won't have to goto Europe if I have to sue CDV for a refund since CDV is the USA puiblishers.

Quote
yap, i can understand yaaj. its kind of frustrating buying a game, starting to play and lateron getting to realize that the version aint functioning the correct way. also your old savegames will be lost if you use the patches. very nice indeed

still i think the problem is not the developers but the marketing division. those people dont know what theyre doing. e.g. they want to sell their product before x-mas for all the nice presents meaning a lot of nice money....it doesnt matter at all if the developers tell them not to be ready yet. this is a f***** up marketing world.

still they are loosing the game, for only passionate players will buy such products. people who just want to play once or twice will stop buying any new games on the market for all the trouble this causes. at last we all end up waiting for games that are 2 years old and price reduced. which aint fair - the developers spend a lot of work in products like dd.


Thank you for understanding where I'm coming form. I don't put much of the blame on Larian Studios'. Odds are CDV wouldn't pay them the extra cash to work out the remaining bugs in their game. If CDV won't honor my state laws and provide me with a refund then yes I will file a suit against them.

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hmmm isn't the sueing proces more expensive then the 50 bux you spent on the game? it's pretty weird to be sueing for a couple of broken skills..but oh well...


If I have to sue CDV for a refund they'll also have to pay the court fees, not me. The only cost to me will be the 4 hours I'll have to invest to get my refund.

Quote
Yaaj you are brilliant. Not only that, you are completely right. The box did indeed say 96 skills, and 2, that's right 2 skills aren't working. Not 1, but 2. This is definitely something you should be pounding money out of.

But why stop there? My new hairdryer didn't come with a "don't use to bash in your own skull" warning. And the applepie I bought earlier on didn't come with a "may contain apples" warning, even though I'm allergic to apples! Are these people trying to get me killed?

Well it's time to sue the nation, sue the world and sue the corporation, those idiots don't know what they're sayin'.

All hail America, land of the free! Free to chose between Wendy's and McDonalds! Free to say anything you want, unless you say bad things about America, in which case we'll call you un-patriotic, and hunt you down like the dog you are. Free to listen and watch TV programmes especially designed to brainwash and manipulate you so that you believe America is the best place in the world, and that you become braindead consumers for the benefit of the economy (i.e. the wallets of those corporate pigs)!

And if any of you non-American countries don't like it, we'll bomb you, and call you ragheads, gooks, communists or nazis.

Three freaking cheers for America!

*AHEM*

So anyway, go ahead. Get your $50 back. You crybaby.


You know I wasn't even going to bother to reply to this post since it has NOTHING to do with my oringal post. But, after reading it a few times I've gotten the impression that the poster is just jealous that I have more options to get a refund on buggy software then he does.

Any ways. Has PC gaming really gotten so bad that us, the customers, will just accept any buggy half-finished beta as a final product? I know I haven't.

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How about closing this thread with the words

SUUM CUIQUE <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/question.gif" alt="" />


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And i hate people that think they can sue everyone. (Are you American????)



Yes. The state I live in has two laws in the book to protect customers that are stuck with buggy products so they can get a refund IF the developer/publisher won't allow a refund.

Thank you for understanding where I'm coming form. I don't put much of the blame on Larian Studios'. Odds are CDV wouldn't pay them the extra cash to work out the remaining bugs in their game. If CDV won't honor my state laws and provide me with a refund then yes I will file a suit against them.


Well, we have such laws here in Germany, too.

The point is, when I want to get a refund from an american company, I don't think I'll ever get one.

Also, I'd have a problem with a lawsuit : Those who have the money for good lawyers always win.

I fear that this is the case in any country.

If I would try to make a lawsuit (right word ?) against EA, for example, it could take years and years, because they have the money and could simply wait until mine runs out.

If I make one against a *small* publisher it's more likely to get my money back.

But the worst thing is that we here in Germany get U.S. license instructions with software, although the companies should at least translate them and make them compatibble to German Law. But no, I've read so many software licenses where everything is not only in English, but applies to U.S. law, although the software is sold here in Germany, and therefore German Law must be applied.

I don't think I have a chance.


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You know I wasn't even going to bother to reply to this post since it has NOTHING to do with my oringal post. But, after reading it a few times I've gotten the impression that the poster is just jealous that I have more options to get a refund on buggy software then he does.



As I said above : I don't think that I'd have a chance.

Last edited by AlrikFassbauer; 13/04/04 10:09 PM.

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It's rather offensive, Tovi, to both the people who are like those you're ranting about as well as those (such as myself) who would much rather not be associated with any of the American stereotypes such as fast food, television and mindless patriotism.

Yaaj, despite being in general rather rude, you're right about Tovi's rant. It has nothing to do with what you posted and has thrown the thread off-topic with anti-American vs. American crap. You want to rant about whatever problems you have with Americans, move it to the general chat area.

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Well, we have such laws here in Germany, too.

The point is, when I want to get a refund from an american company, I don't think I'll ever get one.

Also, I'd have a problem with a lawsuit : Those who have the money for good lawyers always win.

I fear that this is the case in any country.

If I would try to make a lawsuit (right word ?) against EA, for example, it could take years and years, because they have the money and could simply wait until mine runs out.

If I make one against a *small* publisher it's more likely to get my money back.

But the worst thing is that we here in Germany get U.S. license instructions with software, although the companies should at least translate them and make them compatibble to German Law. But no, I've read so many software licenses where everything is not only in English, but applies to U.S. law, although the software is sold here in Germany, and therefore German Law must be applied.

I don't think I have a chance.


That's not always the case. I ended up having to sue EA to get a refund on Ultima 9. The case itself took four months from the time I filed the suit until I went to court (once in count it only took two hours before the judge made a ruling), and since it was just for a refund for the game itself it was handled all in small clams. I don't know about other countries, but here in the USA there are no lawyers involved for small clam suits; well you can hire a lawyer but it'd just be a waste of money.

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As I said above : I don't think that I'd have a chance.


Ah, then excuse my ignorance.

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Sounds to me like someone is just a little bit jealous of Americans to me..could this really be true???Its funny you very seldom see people who want give up there US citizenship,but we always have our hands full with people wanting to live in the USA and become a citizen. I guess I am just part of the propaganda machine.Oh well,I will just come right out and say that your comments were very offensive to me. I did not see anything humorous about your rant,but you have the right to say them no matter how foolish and imature and untrue your statements.


Why would I be jealous of Americans? As far as I'm concerned, America is one of the last places I want to live. I remember I used to think America was a great place to be, and I wanted to live there when I grew up. Then I got history lessons in highschool... Americans keep speaking of freedom, and how great it is to live in America. Well they have to, cause that's all I hear. But then there's the slave thing, the communist witchhunt/McCarthy thingy, the black rights thing, major companies with underpaid workers in foreign countries (Nike), corruption, greed, War in Korea, War in Vietnam, More people killed by guns than anywhere else in the world... Jezus...

I guess the final straw was when America elected a C-student to be their leader. A C-student who bombs random countries for reasons like "they tried to kill my daddy", "axis of evil" or "I think they might have weapons of mass destruction". A C-student who caused a greater national defecit than 11 previous presidents combined. A C-student who gives away your rights and freedoms without your permission.

No, I much prefer Europe. We have pretty much the same freedoms and rights as you do (maybe even more with your new president and all), plus we have a much better hospital system.

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You know I wasn't even going to bother to reply to this post since it has NOTHING to do with my oringal post. But, after reading it a few times I've gotten the impression that the poster is just jealous that I have more options to get a refund on buggy software then he does.


My post is probably more relative to the topic than you think. In my personal opinion, your whole plan to sue CDV is absolutely ridiculous.

In Europe, I could do the same thing, but the judge would probably just laugh in my face. Duh. It simply makes sence, the whole thing is ludicrous.

However, knowing the American justice system (which grants stupid people 6 million dollars for burning their hands on a coffee they got from a McDonalds Drive-in), you'd probably win the case.

But that's not the point. the fact that you brought up "sueing" just made me angry. Angry about the typical American mentality which I'm firmly against for many reasons.


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My post is probably more relative to the topic than you think. In my personal opinion, your whole plan to sue CDV is absolutely ridiculous.

In Europe, I could do the same thing, but the judge would probably just laugh in my face. Duh. It simply makes sence, the whole thing is ludicrous.

However, knowing the American justice system (which grants stupid people 6 million dollars for burning their hands on a coffee they got from a McDonalds Drive-in), you'd probably win the case.

But that's not the point. the fact that you brought up "sueing" just made me angry. Angry about the typical American mentality which I'm firmly against for many reasons



Then you have no concept of getting what you paid for. And, if you'd bother read, and comprehend, anything I've said. I'm not your idea of what Americans are. I will not sue CDV for millons, for thousand, or even for hundreds of dollars. If they don't honor my local laws and provide a refund for a produect that doesn't work as advertised, then yes I will take them to court for the price I paid for the game. And you're right I will win the case, now read this very carefully, because the game doesn't work as advertised on the back of the box. Odds are tho CDV will just settle once they see that I am serious about getting a refund.

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But how can you even think of sueing someone over something as trivial, minor, and unimportant as this? Even if only for $50? So what happens if you win the case? Do you get $50 and do you return the game to CDV so you can buy another game and sue that company for $50 and so on and forth...?

You have got to relax! I have Divine Divinity aswell, and I payed as much as you did. And whilst I admit it has a few very minor flaws, it is still one of the best games I have ever played. Don't even think about calling me a fanboy, because before this game and it's demo, I hadn't even heard of Larian.

If I buy a DVD in America, and it says the DVD contains 150 minutes of film, while it actually only contains 149 minutes, and 12 seconds, does that mean I should sue the company for misleading advertisement? Even if it was a great movie?


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But how can you even think of sueing someone over something as trivial, minor, and unimportant as this? Even if only for $50? So what happens if you win the case? Do you get $50 and do you return the game to CDV so you can buy another game and sue that company for $50 and so on and forth...?


I think you have the wrong idea about me. No I don't sue a company for a refund for minor bugs. I'll only take someone to court if I have a valid reason to. FYI, here's a list of publishs I've filed suits in order to get a refund. If you know anything about these games then you'll see that each and everyone has been unplayible after being patched.

Ubi Soft for Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor - I had to file to suits. One for the refund of the game and another one for compensation of five months of work lost due to their product wiping my Hard Drive when I uninstalled it. Ubi Soft settled for the refund and the compay I work for took over the compensation suit, and in the end they won.

Atari for Temple of Elemental - They settled out of court and gave me a refund.

EA for Ultima 9 - I won the case and got a refund.

Seirra for Arcanum - They settled out of court and I got a refund.

Interplay for Lionheart - They settled out of court and gave me a refund.

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If I buy a DVD in America, and it says the DVD contains 150 minutes of film, while it actually only contains 149 minutes, and 12 seconds, does that mean I should sue the company for misleading advertisement? Even if it was a great movie?


I couldn't give you an honest answer, but I'd have to say no. Now if you were to buy a TV that advertised picture in picture and that didn't work foy you. After trying to get the store you bought the TV from to give you a refund, and the compay that makes the TV you bought, and if they both refused to refund you money then yes you have a vaild case.

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[color:"orange"]You're totally missing the point. If you'd stop being a blind fanboi for a second you'd realize that it doesn't matter if the six broken/bugged skills make the game unplayible or not.[/color]

Well obviously if I have any objections to your opinions I'd have to be a fanboy. I'm not sure why you were complaining about the game being unplayable if that doesn't matter.


[color:"orange"]"480 skill levels: 96 skills with 5 levels each 6 classes of characters"[/color]

Would you be fine with the broken skills if the back of the box said 'more than 90 skills', rather than specifying 96? Nobody is claiming bugs are good or irrelevant, but most also consider the relative impact the broken skill has, or doesn't, rather than just focusing on the fact it is broke. Hopefully there will be another patch to fix the 2 broken skills and eliminate remaining problems with other skills and the game in general.

Personally, with the quote from the back of the box, I have a much bigger problem with the claim of 6 classes than 96 skills. The Larian's site specifies 3 classes, with each being either male or female (since the only difference gender makes in the game is the voice and appearance). How the publisher's the marketing department turns that into 6 classes is beyond me.


[color:"orange"]It's been my experence when buying games from developers/publishers that are new to that gaming industry that their frist product will be bug-ridden[/color]

I've had more problems with software from larger companies than smaller.

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If you want to spend your precious time suing the the game companies because you feel you have been wronged then that is your perogative ( hope I spelled that right). I have all of the games on your list and I must say that I have enjoyed playing all of them.I think if I got as upset as you seem to be about human error in computer games I think I would quit buying them. You know from my expreience with buying computer games the advertizement on the packaging very
seldom resembles the actuality of the game itself. Most of the time the promotors overstate what the game is actually like itself with alot of hype.
Since I know this,I usually will get a demo of the game first or I will do a little research about a game before I purchase it.If I were a judge I would recommend these safegaurds. The technology that goes into designing and developing computer games still amazes me and I feel no anxiety about buying a game and then finding out that it is not perfect. I never install a game without going to GameSpy or the games websight to check if the game has an update or patch. IMHO it is just the way it is in the gaming computer world. Maybe you might be better off playing console games I don't know my friend its just a thought. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


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Yaaj man you're scary. I have to admire someone who would sue a publisher over a computer game. Several, in fact.
Good old American justice. Whiners rule. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" />
(I'm still sitting here shaking my head in disbelief.)


" Road rage, air rage. Why should I be forced to divide my rage into seperate categories? To me, it's just one big, all-around, everyday rage. I don't have time for distinctions. I'm too busy screaming at people. " -George Carlin
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now everybody calm down a bit, pleeeease!

he is not that wrong you think he is! for all those german people not understanding the cause of his wanting to sue: the skills are part of a werbevesprechen ( transl. advertizement promise )the company makes. and no, he is perfectly right to get what he was promised. never mind if the cause for sueing is only soooo small...and thats what makes tempers rise i think ;-)

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Indeed, but how many of us here would actually DO it? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />


" Road rage, air rage. Why should I be forced to divide my rage into seperate categories? To me, it's just one big, all-around, everyday rage. I don't have time for distinctions. I'm too busy screaming at people. " -George Carlin
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probably only one! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />

I forgot to say that was a most entertaining, tasty piece of thread!
Some good laughs,
a few suprises <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
and some out and out bashing.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />
overall it's a good read,... I recommend it! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by Jurak; 15/04/04 02:27 AM.

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Me too! I believe its pretty much over now though. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />


" Road rage, air rage. Why should I be forced to divide my rage into seperate categories? To me, it's just one big, all-around, everyday rage. I don't have time for distinctions. I'm too busy screaming at people. " -George Carlin
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Hi everybody!

I recently bought this game and are about to start playing.
I've dl the lastest patch but after reading this post i've understand that there are skills that won't work!! (OMG)

The question is, which skills arent working??
Some archer skill and necromancer skills??

I'd really appreciate some quick anwsers cause i want to begin now!!


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I can't remember exactly. Been a long time since I played. Bow skill doesn't improve damage or something? Ranger sight is a bit useless. Dont' kill the final bad guy with steel scorpions also or the game will hang.
Nothing major, just few things to watch for.
The rest of the game is very enjoyable! Don't be put off! Don't sue anyone either 'cos that's lame! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />


" Road rage, air rage. Why should I be forced to divide my rage into seperate categories? To me, it's just one big, all-around, everyday rage. I don't have time for distinctions. I'm too busy screaming at people. " -George Carlin
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Me too! I believe its pretty much over now though. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />


Yep. CDV gave me a refund.

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[color:"orange"]The question is, which skills arent working??[/color]

True Shot and the damage portion of Crossbow Expertise are broke.

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Hi everybody!

I recently bought this game and are about to start playing.
I've dl the lastest patch but after reading this post i've understand that there are skills that won't work!! (OMG)

The question is, which skills arent working??
Some archer skill and necromancer skills??

I'd really appreciate some quick anwsers cause i want to begin now!!


Doing a quick search on these boards will lead you to a thread that has a list of all the broken/bugged skills in the game. Since you were too lazy to do a search for yourself I'll go ahead and post the "offical" broken skill list then list the few skills that were too buggy for me to use.

Broken skills for the Bow:
Augment Damage
True shot

Broken skills for the Crossbow:
Augment Damage
Crossbow Expert

Skills for me that didn't work with version 1.34 or too buggy to to use:
Aura of Command - Crahses the game the second it's used
Repair - Crashes the game the second it's used
Sword Expert with male warrior - Reloading will give you a free skill level
Augment Damage with male warrior - Reloading will give you a free skill level
Resurrect - This skill was way buggy for me, too many bugs to list

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Augment Damage is not broke, it only applies to melee attacks.

Any character can get a bonus level of Sword Expertise and Augment Damage, but non male warriors need to put the first skill point in themselves, since their starting skills are different.

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The bug with the repair skill is very annoying, but it only happens about 30% of the time on my system. So I tend to save the game every time I want to repair something. This is one of several annoyances with this game, but overall it's so much fun that I wouldn't dream of giving my copy back (and yes, most europeans have the same or more rights that you americans have, and there usually isn't a need to sue anyone (unless they're a very dubious company) to get your money back if something doesn't work as advertised).

I just hope Beyond Divinity has less serious bugs (the repair bug is very serious, and it's very strange it hasn't been fixed by a patch).

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Some people who have run into a problem with Repair have found it more reliable to repair with items in their inventory or on the ground, rather than equipped.

I had this problem trying to batch repair a bunch of stuff to sell, but reverting to a save a couple minutes earlier pretty much cleared it up. I had another couple crashes (didn't bother unequipping stuff), but had started saving first as a precaution.

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Hi Yaaj,

The skills you mentioned:

Aura of Command
Repair
Sword Expert
Augment Damage
Resurrect

-are skills I use quite extensively throughout the game and to date cannot fault them. I do admit that the game is buggy (scripting and a few suspect crashes) but on the whole the game has been stable and compelling enough for me to persevere. Thankfully I bought the game after patch 1.34 was released so I can't begin to imagine what like was life before :P

As with any PC game in development, it's pretty difficult for the developer to cater for all the combinations of system configurations out there given the broad standards that are in place. I sympathise especially for PC developers (especially debut ones at that) in that regard and it's no surprise that there are stories of developers flocking to the next generation consoles.

Anyway, Yaaj, it's good to see people like you keeping the publishers on their toes. Ultima 9, Temple of Elemental Magic, Myth Drannor were disasters and were released knowingly to the public and that is unexceptable. I don't think CDV and my good mates at Larian Studios are in that category though :P

I am not really enthused about the ethos of releasing a piece of software now and patching it up later. I'd rather see a company released a final, stringently tested, stable working build even if it means delaying the game for a few months.

There's so many unknown facets to this, it's really hard to get a clear picture.

Meh, I'm just thinking out loud.

edit: spelling




Last edited by LordPanda; 28/04/04 05:13 AM.

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I don't think CDV and my good mates at Larian Studios are in that category though :P

Hi LordPanda! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I agree with all of that except the bit about CDV. They are very much in the culprit category. Check out The C-word publisher.

Sword Expertise and Augment Damage are bugged, but in a good way! You receive a bonus second level of each after you learn the first level, then save and reload.

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Hi there!

Oh yes, Breed (this game had promise!)...I forgot about that game.

Well I stand corrected partly! The lads at Larian are still swell though!


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As with any PC game in development, it's pretty difficult for the developer to cater for all the combinations of system configurations out there given the broad standards that are in place.


Yes I realize that, but those bugs aren't system related. They're code related, and yes there is a difference. I tried playing the game on my three different desktops and my laptop and I ran into those same bugs on each system.

Oh well I got my money back and used it to pre-order Beyond Divinity so I'm getting a free copy of Divine with it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And if Larian ever releases another patch (either offical or unoffical), or a fan does the work for them, I'll reinstall the game and give it a play through. The sad thing is I really did enjoyed Divine, from what little I got to play of it any ways. That's why I waited so long before I tried to get a refund. All I can hope now is that Beyond won't suffer from the same bugs as Divine did. Judging from how polished Beyond's demo is I doubt it will.

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As I have said; it doesn't not matter if it's one skill, or in this games case, six skills. And, no I won't have to goto Europe if I have to sue CDV for a refund since CDV is the USA puiblishers.
----


oh yeah, well, theyre going out of bussness fasrt, preobably cantspeakr your money.


6> actually it is 2. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

and is that SUCH a big deal you will sue?


sometimes I want to swim accross the pacific, atlantic, and sea of indian ocenas just to get to a civilized place were my classmates and fellow countrymen aren't a bunch of jackass idiots. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> for our portfolioes in art 1 kid said on his "WAR ON IRAQ" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/down.gif" alt="" />
and others say earthday is just for a bunch of loses to say 'save the earth'
good idea! lets sue everyone, and trash the earth, maybe THEN we'll have a nice world, huh? oh, just lets make sure, ATTACK! hmm, lets not good worried. "the fights over people, its all good" BAM BAM BAM "ok we were wrong, but its not so big" BOOM! "ok, more troops needed!" lets wreck society just a 'tad' bit more, eh?


BLOODDY FRIGGEN HELL YOU SUCK AMERICA!

and unlike Eminem, no, im NOT just playin' with you. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" />



<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />but what I also don't like is people saying ALL Americans are bad, just as examples look at Mslynx and look at me, and MOST of the other Americans! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />



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Yaaj, you scored a pretty sweet deal there <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

In essence you got a free copy of Beyond Divinity. Chances are this game will be buggy as well so if you do the same thing again, you might get a free copy of Divine Divinity 2 and so on and so forth. Yaaj, you've got it made <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Maybe you should consider a career in 'Law' Yaaj, with people like you dodgey or buggy games will be a thing of the past.


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no, it will not be buggy, and that is a bad thing to say, keep on returning things for not working and getting a new thing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/memad.gif" alt="" />



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Lews please don't take my comments to heart. I was actually being ironic with a healthy dose of sarcasm. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> I think the smileys might have thrown you off.

Anyway, Yaaj does have a very valid point though. Even though I think it's kind of funny that he went ahead and bought Beyond Divinity from the same people that delivered Divine Divinity (so the game wasn't that bad after all eh Yaaj?), he did illustrate a few issues with the game industry as a whole.

Games nowadays are very buggy. Many developers are guilty of this. I remember my outrage when after years of waiting for Ultima 9 to only discover it to be a buggy, broken disgrace of a game. Even Richard Garriot, the founder of the Ultima series, walked out on it. It took three patches and a fan patch to finally fix the thing. Let's not even mention the state of Deus Ex 2.

I've sort of accepted the fact that's the way the industry is: either games are rushed out to coincide with a major holiday season or developers have trouble catering for the myriad of PC configurations out there. Yaaj's post prompted me to think: does it have to be this way? Of course not. I don't mind the odd bug here and there - it's the critical, "saved games won't load" sort of bugs that really get to me. The latter case happened to me in Divine Divinity. Luckily for me a reinstall fixed the issue. A few other people on the forums reported the same issues, but I digress.

The point is Yaaj paid for the game rightfully expecting it to have what it stated on the box. It didn't and left CDV open to lawsuits. So hopefully CDV will learn to have more vague blurbs <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Anyway Yaaj, I hope you enjoy Beyond Divinity as I'm sure the dev team did their best just as they did with Divine Divinity.

edit: grammar



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@yaaj: Some of your inflamatory comments aside I have to say I respect your single minded pursuit of what you felt was right. I put up with the bugs in DD simply because I enjoyed the overall game so much that they didnt really detract from the whole game. That aside, as a consumer you DO have the right to expect what you are promised, and when it is not delivered you are legally protected by being able to expect a refund. I guess the depressing thing is that you shouldnt have had to sue to get it, it should have been smilingly forthcoming in each case, without having to resort to litigation. Still, your uncompromsing stance on the principle is kind of refreshing.

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oh yeah, well, theyre going out of bussness fasrt, preobably cantspeakr your money.


Anyone want to help me out here? I've read and reread this poorly structured sentence five times now, an I still have no idea what this fool is trying to say.

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6> actually it is 2. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />


From the looks of it basic math is lost on you. I suggest you reread everything I've posted and add up the amount of skills that are broken for me. Now I know math can be a hard concept for some people to grasp, so I took a few minutes and found a website that will help you. http://www.aaamath.com/B/grade1.htm Now don't feel ashamed if you gotta use your hands to help you count. Our base-10 math system is, afterall, based off of us Humans using our hands to count. After a few months of study you should be able to count up too 100 without having to use your hands to help you keep track.

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and is that SUCH a big deal you will sue?


I suggest you reread evevrything I've post until you can comprehend why I got a refund on this game.

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sometimes I want to swim accross the pacific, atlantic, and sea of indian ocenas just to get to a civilized place were my classmates and fellow countrymen aren't a bunch of jackass idiots. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> for our portfolioes in art 1 kid said on his "WAR ON IRAQ" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/down.gif" alt="" />


Go right ahead. Do you really think I care what you do? If you're really serious about wanting to leave this country contact me via PMs and I'll buy you a one way plane ticket to anywhere you'd like to go. We don't need anymore idiots investing our gene pool, so it would be my honor to move you out of this country.

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and others say earthday is just for a bunch of loses to say 'save the earth'
good idea! lets sue everyone, and trash the earth, maybe THEN we'll have a nice world, huh? oh, just lets make sure, ATTACK! hmm, lets not good worried. "the fights over people, its all good" BAM BAM BAM "ok we were wrong, but its not so big" BOOM! "ok, more troops needed!" lets wreck society just a 'tad' bit more, eh?


I have no idea what this last "paragraph" (I used quote because as you can see grammer is seriously lost on this guy) has to do with anything. So I'll just ignore it.

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BLOODDY FRIGGEN HELL YOU SUCK AMERICA!


And which America would that be? North America, Central America, or South America?

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and unlike Eminem, no, im NOT just playin' with you. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" />


Thanks. That makes me flaming you a whole lot easier.

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<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />but what I also don't like is people saying ALL Americans are bad, just as examples look at Mslynx and look at me, and MOST of the other Americans! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />


No. It's you, and people like you, that makes the Unitied States look bad. It's you people that are the reason why other counties has the imopression that all "americans" are fat, lazy, ignorant, and uneducated. Since I persoanally don't know you I can't honestly call you fat or lazy, but you are both ignorant and uneducated. Spend some time teaching yourself outside of this countries crappy schooling system - the basics of math and grammer will do you well. Also you might consider taking a trip to Amsterdam and spending a few months there, it should help you out with your ignorant trait of yours - unless you're one of those inbred rednecks from the South then there's really no help for you but a bullet in the head.

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Yaaj, you scored a pretty sweet deal there

In essence you got a free copy of Beyond Divinity. Chances are this game will be buggy as well so if you do the same thing again, you might get a free copy of Divine Divinity 2 and so on and so forth. Yaaj, you've got it made

Maybe you should consider a career in 'Law' Yaaj, with people like you dodgey or buggy games will be a thing of the past.


You know I was going to retort with some witty sarcasm of my own, but I won't. After reading what you've posted after this post I only have one thing to say to you. Thanks you taking a few minutes out of your life and trying to understand where I'm coming from.

Oh and LordPanda. The only reason why I bought Beyhond was the fact that Larian went with a different publisher. Now I'm not all that familer with HipGames, but I have bought one of their games that they've published in the past. My one experience with that one game has taught me that they do offer full support to their developers. So Larian should have no problems working out the last remaining bugs in Beyhond.

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Some of your inflamatory comments aside I have to say I respect your single minded pursuit of what you felt was right. I put up with the bugs in DD simply because I enjoyed the overall game so much that they didnt really detract from the whole game. That aside, as a consumer you DO have the right to expect what you are promised, and when it is not delivered you are legally protected by being able to expect a refund. I guess the depressing thing is that you shouldnt have had to sue to get it, it should have been smilingly forthcoming in each case, without having to resort to litigation. Still, your uncompromsing stance on the principle is kind of refreshing.


Thanks, Mandrake. Sometimes I fear the only way we, the customers, will ever make a change in this industry is by class-action law suits. Complaining on boards isn't doing anything, sueing developers/publishers for refunds isn't doing anything (and yes I'm not the only ones that has done this), and even voting with our dollars isn't doing anything, and it won't as long as us fans keep buying any half-finished beta that gets released - just look at Ascaron's latest release.

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Long post Yaaj. Some decent points too, especially about Sacred. Patch patch patch..... It may turn out ok though. I might even play it again when they fix it properly.

Complaining on the boards works here believe me. The Larians are very responsive to requests made here.

As to the ethics of sueing game companies over 50 bucks. I'll leave that argument alone. You seem hell-bent on teaching them a lession. Noble in principle but rather a waste of my time.

Don't worry about Lews, he's just ranting till he gets his copy of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" />. I'm sure that will pacify him..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

The gene pool doesn't really have much to do with how ignorant people become. Good old american TV is to blame for that. Latest survey showed kids raised on TV were more likely to have ADD.....

What was I saying again? OOOO! A talking pineapple! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />


" Road rage, air rage. Why should I be forced to divide my rage into seperate categories? To me, it's just one big, all-around, everyday rage. I don't have time for distinctions. I'm too busy screaming at people. " -George Carlin
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@ Jangutt: You forgot to mention my breath smells like mice too, and moths, I like moths. Well except for the wings, I just leave those lying around for humans to clean up when they're cleaning up mouseleftovers <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/kitty.gif" alt="" />


I will call you "Squishy", and you will be my squishy! OW! BAD SQUISHY! - Dory, Finding Nemo
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Have you tried frogs? I've heard good things about them. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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The only reason why I bought Beyhond was the fact that Larian went with a different publisher. Now I'm not all that familer with HipGames, but I have bought one of their games that they've published in the past. My one experience with that one game has taught me that they do offer full support to their developers. So Larian should have no problems working out the last remaining bugs in Beyond


D'oh! You got me there Yaaj! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ouch.gif" alt="" /> I stand corrected! HIP Games are the new publishers and from what I've read and heard, they are a pretty decent mob.

Oh well better quit while I'm behind <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Feel the power of Lord Panda...zzzzzzz
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I tried licking a frog once but something wierd happened. I started halucinating and thought I was a dog *Mandrakes fur is ruffed up in fear* It was horrible.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/kitty.gif" alt="" />


I will call you "Squishy", and you will be my squishy! OW! BAD SQUISHY! - Dory, Finding Nemo
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WAAHAHAHAHHAHAA

Yaaj..i've read this whole topic..

and it's hilarious

hahaha <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" />



your really pathetic
maybe you should get yourself a girlfriend or something
you are really overreacting with this

if the game wouldnt install or crashed every 10 minutes..i would say your right...but just because of this?????


\m/ heavy symphonic power metal!!! \m/
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WAAHAHAHAHHAHAA

Yaaj..i've read this whole topic..

and it's hilarious

hahaha <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" />



your really pathetic
maybe you should get yourself a girlfriend or something
you are really overreacting with this

if the game wouldnt install or crashed every 10 minutes..i would say your right...but just because of this?????


Then I suggest you re-read everything. This time pronounce the bigger words out loud - in your case the ones with more then one syllable. You'll quickly see that the game does crash on me when a select few skills are used. In any event I'm sorry you can't comprehend the reasons why I got a refund on this game. Don't feel sorry for yourself because you can't. Some people don't quite have as much intelligence then others, and I know for some people the reason I got a refund is a hard concept to grasp. It's okay. Someday, with some work on your end, you'll understand.

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hmm...mu iq is over 140 so dont. talk to me about intelligence...

but if it crashes when using that skill.....then why don't you just simply "don't use that skill"???


there is so mucht more in DD than those fwe skills...


\m/ heavy symphonic power metal!!! \m/
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It is rather pointless to re-start the discussion - it has all been said before, and all points have been made. Wether to share them or not, is up to each individual's opinion.


In times of crisis it is of the utmost importance not to lose your head (Marie Antoinette)
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It is rather pointless to re-start the discussion - it has all been said before, and all points have been made. Wether to share them or not, is up to each individual's opinion.

Agreed. It's not good insulting each other. It doesn't do anything except start flame wars.

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what fire?!? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif" alt="" />


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I faced similar problem.

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