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#245134 08/06/04 04:57 PM
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Regarding the issue about the laser doing damage to the CD over time...would it be possible to have it so you do need to use the CD to launch the game (as in the copy protection of BD) but once the game is loaded and the CD checked you could remove it?

I think the CD's need to stay in the drives for most games but why should they if you can copy all the files in a full install to the hard drive. At least then the CD wont be accessed enough to damage it.

#245135 09/06/04 03:14 AM
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plowking, that's a very good idea but not many developers are doing that. i'm sorry i can't remember any games that doesn't check for the cd again after u initialised the game, but i know there are a few that i have which are like that.

it would be great (hopefully without bugs) if larians will consider that in the next game whereby after u start the game, the disc will be ejected so u can keep it & play the game. i recall larians did the auto-eject for DD installation.

deathatthedoor, audio cd's play at 2X whereas game cd's (much like digital data cd's for games & software) run at maximum speed that your cd drive can offer. that is a big difference so that's why u don't get to hear about worn-out audio discs. as for me i've seen quite a lot of worn-out audi discs. mostly due to cheap or defective players.



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#245136 09/06/04 11:18 AM
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deathatthedoor, audio cd's play at 2X whereas game cd's (much like digital data cd's for games & software) run at maximum speed that your cd drive can offer. that is a big difference so that's why u don't get to hear about worn-out audio discs. as for me i've seen quite a lot of worn-out audi discs. mostly due to cheap or defective players.


Ah, I see. Yes you are perfectly right. Haven't thought of it.

#245137 09/06/04 01:17 PM
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My drive is going down (read speed dead slow) because of the hammering it gets. Like I've said before, if they want to check if a copy is original, they should do it on the installation, not during the launch of the game.

I have often wondered, what's the point in doing a full install if you still need the disc in? I nearly always download "No-CD" patches for games. I am at the point where I won't buy games that don't have these patches. They can degrade the games performace, and hammer my drives.

And besides, let's not pretend these protections stop people copying the games, piracy is as old as the industry itself. And let's not forget, it is also illegal to copy protect software over here in the UK. Bearing that in mind, it's a bit cheeky calling pirates for breaking the law, isn't it.


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#245138 09/06/04 02:18 PM
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I believe the thinking behind having to need the CD to launch the game is so you can't install it then give it to your friends and so only buying one copy for a load of people.

#245139 09/06/04 04:14 PM
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I believe the thinking behind having to need the CD to launch the game is so you can't install it then give it to your friends and so only buying one copy for a load of people.



Fair comment.

But what's to stop me playing the game, and completing it, and then borrowing it to a friend? Again, this is no excuse...


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#245140 09/06/04 04:37 PM
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But what's to stop me playing the game, and completing it, and then borrowing it to a friend? Again, this is no excuse...


Well nothing at all, and naturally I reckon we all do that. But it could never have the impact of install, give to someone, install, give to someone else etc.

I understand your frustration though...it's a pain switching cds about, especially for games that require you to do it while playing, like Baldurs Gate!

At the end of the day it's all based around the developers trying to keep their intellectual property from unauthorized users.

They have the right to try. If I was a games delevoper trying to make money I'd try to protect my products as much as I can.

The consequences of asking for the CD to play the game is an annoyance I imagine to players, but to the developers seeing your game available for download on the net because you didn't inculde any protection must be far worse. Ok this still happens of course, but wouldn't it be much worse if the CD didn't need to authorized at all.

#245141 09/06/04 05:03 PM
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Well nothing at all, and naturally I reckon we all do that. But it could never have the impact of install, give to someone, install, give to someone else etc.

I understand your frustration though...it's a pain switching cds about, especially for games that require you to do it while playing, like Baldurs Gate!

At the end of the day it's all based around the developers trying to keep their intellectual property from unauthorized users.

They have the right to try. If I was a games delevoper trying to make money I'd try to protect my products as much as I can.

The consequences of asking for the CD to play the game is an annoyance I imagine to players, but to the developers seeing your game available for download on the net because you didn't inculde any protection must be far worse. Ok this still happens of course, but wouldn't it be much worse if the CD didn't need to authorized at all.


I have nothing against the developers protecting their stuff. All I'm asking is don't inconvenience me in the process. I would still point out that copy protections are illegal.

My Diablo II "Play" disc went down. Blizzard wanted £10 to replace it!!! Perhaps if they'd left the disc copyable, I could have backed it up myself. Naturally, I used a "No-CD" crack, but I still had to copy my mates Play disc. Which was a pain.

Consumers have the right to back up their software, regardless of how the developers feel about it. They are breaking the law, and getting a "pat on the back" from most people, how ironic.


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#245142 09/06/04 05:16 PM
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My Diablo II "Play" disc went down. Blizzard wanted £10 to replace it!!! Perhaps if they'd left the disc copyable, I could have backed it up myself. Naturally, I used a "No-CD" crack, but I still had to copy my mates Play disc. Which was a pain.


CloneCD successfully bypasses Diablo 2 and LoD protection, even the older versions of the program.

And please, don't whine here about consumer rights and "evil developers". You have problems? Please go to Digital Jesters' or Starforce's website.

#245143 09/06/04 05:21 PM
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But I can still see why they do it. Nor can I see anyway around needing the CD. Maybe if it only asked for the CD a random time perhaps! That would at least cut down on swapping pains.


I think it's the case for some games even without actual copy protection of any kind you seem to need the CD to access something. I'm playing GTA3 at the mo and the CD is needed to run the radio stations. I do wish I could just put it all on the drive and not need the CD at all. You also need the CD when launching the game...of course. I took the CD out after I launched it and it crashed when I got in a car.

Regarding backup it mentioned in the manual of one game I had Operation flashpoint that you should actually back it up. I did and the backup wouldn't bloody work!! They had protected the game even though they wanted you to back it up!! Grrrr... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/memad.gif" alt="" />

#245144 09/06/04 06:41 PM
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CloneCD successfully bypasses Diablo 2 and LoD protection, even the older versions of the program.

And please, don't whine here about consumer rights and "evil developers". You have problems? Please go to Digital Jesters' or Starforce's website.


first of all, I don't need help copying. Second, paying for Clone to copy Diablo II isn't realistic. Is there any reason inparticular why i can't bring up consumer rights? Or for that matter, "Whine" about publishers & developers? Seeing as it's all related to the original thread I don't see a problem.

The guy hates leaving the CD in, as do many. I wouldn't go as far as to say they're evil for this; I'd just say they have the same disregard for the law, as the pirates do. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />


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#245145 09/06/04 08:03 PM
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My Diablo II "Play" disc went down. Blizzard wanted £10 to replace it!!! Perhaps if they'd left the disc copyable, I could have backed it up myself.


Hey what's this with taking "making back-up copies" for granted? You buy a car, it'll wear off. Same with clothes or family games or basket balls or anything else you buy and you use. No back-ups there. What makes a video game so different?


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#245146 09/06/04 08:24 PM
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Hey what's this with taking "making back-up copies" for granted? You buy a car, it'll wear off. Same with clothes or family games or basket balls or anything else you buy and you use. No back-ups there. What makes a video game so different?


The law doesn't say you can make a backup copy of your car. However, it does about your software, which isn't the point either. This is about people wanting to play their games without a CD/DVD in their drives. A point which is lost on the publishers. It's just a shame it's the hackers who end up giving you this facility.


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#245147 09/06/04 09:10 PM
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first of all, I don't need help copying. Second, paying for Clone to copy Diablo II isn't realistic.

You don't have to play for Clone CD since you get a 30 day trial.

The law doesn't WANT you to backup your CDs. The law ALLOWS you to backup your CDs. If you can't, it's your problem (I am not trying to insult you, I am trying to show it from an avocates' point of view).

PM me if you want a tip.

#245148 10/06/04 01:03 AM
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. I would still point out that copy protections are illegal.


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Could you please prove to me that copy protection of one work is illegal?

#245149 10/06/04 11:17 AM
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1- You are LEGALLY ALLOWED to make a personal backup of an Original Game CD as long as you are the owner of the Original Game CD.

2- You are NOT ALLOWED to sell, rent or give away any backups of copyrighted Games CD's, as this is not allowed by Copyright Laws

3- You MUST DESTROY any backups when you don't legally own the Original Game CD anymore (e.g. selling or giving it away)

To make a backup of an Original Game CD there are Websites who support you with some Protection-Cracked files which you can use...BUT THESE SITES ARE THE SOURCE OF PIRATE USERS AS WELL..

dont miss the point pals


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#245150 10/06/04 11:30 AM
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Interesting is this: EU law has changed a few months ago, so (German - only checked these myself) sites had to remove burn/back up programs/links. Copyright is changing - I think a reaction towards piracy, too late in many cases - but a clear signal towards Kazaa&Co. Have not checked if it is ratified right now, my knowledge is from 8th Aug. 2003. what I did not understand is => if it is already valid throughout EU and only has to be ratified in Germany or has done already (this materia is terribly difficult for me to understand):
Kiya

As this was discussed in the German Forum a few months ago, I'm taking out a few infos by Hellfighter, Wolfman, Barnabus etc. =>

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Verboten ist Software zu kopieren
--||-- ist Kopierschutz zu umgehen
--||-- ist das Benutzen sämtlicher Kopiertools
( Denn §95a Abs.§ sieht vor,
dass auch "herstellung und Verkauf von vorrichtungen, die der umgehung von technischen Schutzmechanismen dienen"verboten sind. Also Tools wie

Translation =>
It is prohibited to copy software
if copy protection can be avoided via tool
usage of all copy tools
As §95a says:
production or sale of tools, helping to avoid technical protection - so, tools as...

Links considered illegal (German sites reacted:)
CloneCD, Alcohol, ClonyXXL, DVDx, Movieejack, Gamejack

You are still allowed to make private backups - but when it comes to using certain tools ...

Kiya

The German link to this discussion, please click, if you understand this language

Please, don't misunderstand this post, I'm just informing. I guess US laws are different. I don't know if this law will help against piracy, but maybe a bit against uncontrolled copies.

Last edited by kiya; 10/06/04 12:01 PM.
#245151 10/06/04 11:56 AM
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It's not my job to prove it goldy; just to inform you. However, I will explain why the law was made:

Back in the days of tapes, and 5¼ discs it was easy for data to become damaged, and the law said you had the right to back up your software. Not just because of possible damage, but because software houses can become bankrupt, and get assets liquidated, leaving you with nowhere to return damaged discs. This was aimed at businesses more than the general public.

Business software isn't disc proected, as businesses won't stand for it. They always make archive copies of their software, for this very reason. Take the Windows OS's for example. Microsoft don't mind you copying windows, what they're interetsed in, is you buying licences for each machine you install a copy.

Anyway, this is as much as I'm going to say on the subject. This is <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> now, and no one appears to be on my side <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />. After all, it's the consumer (you) I'm trying to represent here.


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#245152 10/06/04 12:07 PM
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To make a backup of an Original Game CD there are Websites who support you with some Protection-Cracked files which you can use...BUT THESE SITES ARE THE SOURCE OF PIRATE USERS AS WELL..

dont miss the point pals


Don't confuse pirating games and cracking games. One is a multi-million £ industry, and the other isn't.

Right, that's really my last comment <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />


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#245153 10/06/04 12:27 PM
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xAcesx:
After all, it's the consumer (you) I'm trying to represent here.

I consider myself to be a consumer (have both BD games <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> ) - and understand your point of view => you are a legal consumer and don't want restrictions due to having the CD in the drive, for reasons I understand, too (damage, having to re-buy, swap, mobile playing via laptop etc.)

These reasons are valid up to a certain point in my case => concerning damage.

Why? If I buy a certain product, I know it has a limited life span, this is something I accept in all trade products. I don't consider software on a hardware "transporter" unlimited. If my product takes damage within the legal time limit guarantee, I want a refund. I guess, I would think differently, if I had encountered a CD damage due to the CD-drive during my gaming times, but I have yet to make this XP (not looking forward to it though).
Kiya

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