Larian Studios Forums General Chat The Writing Thread !

A novice author’s torment

So here I sit, smoking a pipe while it’s raining outside, and say to myself “So you want to write something!?”

I want to be able and discuss this later with the only people I know to have the patience and interest to brainstorm something incomplete, unpolished and containing wild ideas I hope I am going to have – so it must be in English – well, OK

Who do I want to write about? Fantasy, I feel comfortable in fantasy and fairy tales in medieval, mythological settings, no modern times, no space age, no western

I need a character.
- a fighter? Zillions around, no original idea pops up
- a mage? Same, but I like magic (bookmark in back of my mind)
- a ranger? Potentially, I like generalists more than specialists (bookmark)
- a healer? Not my line
- a bard? Even less
I draw a blank

New start: what race?
- Human?
- Elven?
- Dwarf?
- Orc?
- Dragon?
- Any mix of the above? (bookmark)
The latter still is the most appealing, as the only experience I have is with a half-elven ranger, which I still like, but then it’s nothing new…

The pipe is burning down slowly, my eyes wander along the rows of books on my shelves, desperately seeking inspiration – what have we not had, or at least not so often?

…a book on mythology…a book on dogs…the medieval soldier…

Animals!? Have I ever read an animal protagonist? Actually yes, long time back – Ernest T. Seton, I believe. Could I write a creature? In a fantasy setting? Why – not?

Next pipe – what magical fantasy creatures do I know? Dragons of course, Pegasus, centaurs, Sphinx, unicorns, hippogriffs… - what combination would I like, what should it look like?

Two pipes, a night’s sleep, and another pipe later – a picture in my mind!

A thing always bothered me when reading NPC-creatures – they talked! OK, it’s fantasy, but how do you talk in humanoid language with an eagle’s beak, a carnivore’s fangs, or a dragon’s (whatever)? Irritating to me.
So what? How make it possible – “believable” – possibly by magic? Telepathy!? Yes!

But then I have a “sender”, how about “receiving”? Any- and everybody? No, too much. So only limited – someone who is unique somehow? A group? Any race?

And then – I need a new pipe – I have this picture of a creature, but how would it interact in a story with people, in civilized surroundings? How would these react to such a creature? A partner? A humanoid partner! But then I have two characters…

…so what? I can write one from the ego-perspective, and the other from a 3rd-person (or is it 2nd person?) perspective – interesting? (bookmark)

How shall I introduce my creature?
- Describe it at the start? Discard
- Have the humanoid find and describe it? Discard
- Introduce it somewhere later as a great surprise? Bookmark
- Build it up somehow? Bookmark

Another night’s sleep, uncounted pipes later, back to bookmarks:

The great surprise! – tempting…

But then, what comes before? General description, bringing the dual character together. THE BIG BANG! Suspense level average (hopefully), one great peak for effects – good as a film – in writing?

So – building it up. Slowly feeding pieces of information, inconspicuous at first as single items. In sum starting to irritate the reader. Making him wonder what this is, or whether the author is totally lost. I would like that – I will try that!
***

And such resulted, what you can read above (shortform!) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Kiya!

Hope you don't mind me commenting? (Of course this is also with the development in mind!)

Thoughtsucker = too aggressive, mind is read, not "sucked"
Mindblinder = same, aggressivity implied
Shadowsoarer = will have to think what that actually means "soaring shadows"
Nighthunter = not good, the eagle part is a daylight creature
Blackclaw = possible, but not a salient characteristic
Darkwing = untrue, wings are described as golden brown
Nigrophid (Niger => black, ophidia => snake)= too sophisticated, don't like snake part
Blackfang = possible, but same as claw
Nox = nice and short, but ignores daylight feature of eagle
Nightshadow = see nox
Truthseeker = if so, I would limit it to seeker (bookmark)
Shadowglider = not his future
Nobilis = noble? That's too much

See - this is what I did to all my own suggestions so far <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Names could be OK, but I do envisage some meaning to be implied in the name.
And a reader of average intellect should be able to grasp it.

Still a challenge, eh? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

EDIT: Did I say HIS future? - actually I am still unsure whether it will be male or female <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/question.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I saw the Lupus before you revealed it (inner eyes) - thought of a werewolf at first. Everything referring to dark, night etc. => is because of his black fur - as I still saw the wolf (more night active <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> ).

The Griffon is in mythology a creature of truth and justice - as no one may lie in his presence => therefore Truthseeker.

Shadowsoarer => mainly a black animal (shadow) => soaring like an eagle (wings to fly)

Hm, Lux Nox? NoxLumen? => forget it, too much Latin (but Lightbringer is a bit too dramatic for my taste)

True, your name should reveal meaning, but I did not have much info to think about. I do not know why the creator made it => purpose could determine name - or, opposing this purpose could reveal name.

The combo of Lupus + kerub (ancient Greek for gryph) + snake tail + eagle => is very interesting. Do you really want all 4 elements in the name + "purpose, goal"?

Sure, it's a challenge <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> => I like your animal.
Kiya

The way you described it => seemed male to me

My griffon was simply Ascolan <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

I agree with Kiya on the sex of the Lupogryph. Sounded male to me, too.

Interesting creation process there, though, Glance <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I usually start with a personality or a concept and build everything up around that base, but this kind of brainstorming clearly works well for you.

As far as names go, Golden Fang is about all I come up with, I'm afraid. Jack London fans will get the partial reference, I am sure <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Interesting - a woman and a man, both getting the impression, that the Lupogryph is male. Based on what?

I did not specifically mention gender - actually I tried to NOT include any reference to it. Did I miss something, there? Had I written it with a female in mind, what would I have had to write differently - Elliot, you should know?

Or is it nothing factual or insinuated I have written, but only in your "pre-set" mind (another trap?) Think about it - the same text, different animal combination - would your impression of the gender change with for example a snake body? A panther? A horse?

*
Yes Kiya, I am aware that I am a little unfair on the name issue, inasmuch as you (all) don't have any more information than written so far, and no idea of what is in the dark back of my mind (I am looking for the torch myself)

As Elliot says, I like brainstorming, flipping ideas and concepts around with others, finding (forming) pieces of the puzzle until somehow - intuitively - the picture completes itself before my eyes, and I have a goal. I actually work like that professionally to some extent, which I concede is sometimes irritating as the preachers of cold logic cannot always follow my way of determining and defining a solution, though they do come up with the same, but via a different "way of thinking".
*

In the beginning of this thread, where we had consolidated various (wonderfully helpful and inspiring) guidelines, we already had the "name-finding" question. Which is what inspirarated (or should I say instigated?) this concrete challenge - as I find it a) harder than I thought it would be, and b) really important for the future to find an "adequate" name.

But don't torture you to extremes - it's my problem, not your's. But I sincerely appreciate your efforts.

Glance...

I based my 'Lupogryph is male' thinking on the innate aggression of the character. A female character would tend to be more wary when dealing with something utterly new like this, and take more time to come out of the shadows, probably even warning Leaf more on what to expect. She would attempt communication on more levels, probably wagging her tail in welcome or seeking to sniff his hand to get his smell more firmly fixed in her mind. She would pay attention to what might be alarming him, and react accordingly.

She would be both more elusive and less dramatic. And she would pay more attention to the way she herself is feeling. That last might even be the most important.

'Guys think, girls feel' might be an oversimplification, but there is some truth in it regardless.

Your Lupogryph is very 'thought-focused', if you will - ergo, male.

Not that I write a lot of female characters or anything <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Elliot...

that'll need a pipe or two to sink in...
(Not that I ever claimed to understand the workings of the female mind, but it seems the author's gender shines through more than I expected (maybe I should rather research the workings of the male mind!?). So I'm probably better off considering it a male in future).

Not a lot of female characters? Just two, but a lot of them? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Anyway thanks for the explanation - though that means, if I really wanted to keep the issue open, it would be terribly hard to achieve. Especially over a longer period of time and interaction (which I seriously considered).

It really does, Glance. You wouldn't believe how many writers can't write the opposite sex at all believably - including many professionals - because they don't understand the tremendous shift in mindset you need to carry it off.

We all naturally default to our own gender.



I had no idea you were a reader <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> All comments - good and bad - are welcome <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



Almost impossible, in fact. Unless you decided the Lupogryph was asexual, and thus, having no sex, could act in any way you chose.

asexual? - not really; really not!


No, haven't read any (yet) completely of what you wrote, but was curious what you write about - hence <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Hey - it's an option. I never said it was a good one <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />



Elsa is probably my most written main protagonist, as she is very versatile and can work in many different types of story.

Illyana is a lot more complex and far more powerful - hence harder to write. I need a special kind of story to make her work properly on her own, though she does work well as a support character for Elsa when I need her to.

Fortunately, a few of my readers are female, and have been kind enough to tell me I write female characters quite well - which came as very welcome news, I assure you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If you ever get around to reading any of my stuff, I'd love to hear your thoughts <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sure it's an option, and a valid one - just not for me
(You said the author shines through - and I would hate to see myself as asexual! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />)

I'm sure I will get around to it (bookmarked) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

@Glance, I don't consider the name thingie without a lot of info unfair >= nope, it's a challenge <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
I have probs myself in giving names to my chars and wanting to put a lot into it. So, I really know what you're in here.

As for gender => Elliot said it: the Lupogryph was too logic - and even if a somewhat untypical female - too open IMO.

What about this => choose a public name first - and leave the "hidden name" (the one granting powers) in the dark at first?
Kiya

Interesting concept, Kiya - I'll think about it!

Some more information? OK <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Here it is!
(I changed the color scheme from tricolor to bicolor - so don't be confused since it differs from the first story post)

*
Leaf hesitates, leans back and takes out a crooked piece of wood out of his pack, fills some aromatic herbs into a hollow at the end, and lights it by conjuring a flame. His mind is blank while he concentrates doing that – interesting! He then sucks at the other end and puffs a smoke ring towards the ceiling, where the light sphere he created in the front cave is still hovering. “What are you doing?” I think, amazed. I suspect some magic, but can sense none, nor see any effect other than the aromatic smoke.

“This”, answers Leaf, holding up the wood, “is a pipe. I’m smoking. There is nothing to it – it’s just for pleasure, taste, and it helps me relax and think”.

“I have heard of pipes – but I can’t hear anything”, I wonder.

Leaf smiles. “Pipes for sounds are something else, but you are right to be confused – the name is identical, but the purpose is quite different”.

I get the distinct feeling that he is trying to avoid the name question. “How about a name, then?” I insist.

“In my culture a name is partly given by your parents, that’s Leaf in my case”, he says, “and partly earned by feats when you reach adult age – so I got Swifthand”. He continues puffing his pipe, the smell of which slowly fills the cave, and looks at me lying flat on my belly in front of him. He thinks “Are you male or female?” I consider this, sending my thoughts to him – as I remember from the creator’s memory, he took a male wolf, a female eagle, and a brain from some magical creature I have no memories of. Now, what does that make me? But, thinking of my body’s anatomy, I am male.

“Male!” Leaf nods, “What was your creator’s name? Since this is the closest you have as parents”.

“The creator’s name?” I search deep in my memory. “Sure, he had a name – but since we were living all alone, he seldom thought of it - but I do remember a visitor long, long time ago, called him – Astaroth of Anwynn”.

“Considering what he did, it’s maybe not a good idea, to take his name”, Leaf contemplates. I fail to understand. What he did? In creating me? What could be wrong with that? “Trying to create beings is blasphemy in my world”, explains Leaf. I still don’t understand. “Don’t worry, it’s not your fault, and it’s done “.

Leaf's pipe stopped burning, and he empties the ashes into the stove. Then he bends over, looking in my eyes, studying my features. “You know, in a way you are beautiful”, he says, and then murmurs “black and silver – night and day; no - silver is the light of the moon. Wolf, eagle, dragon – earth, air and fire”. He shakes his head, confused and irritated. “You have any magic skills?” he asks.

“No, I can’t do magic. How could I? No voice to speak a spell, no hands to manipulate the magic aura. But I can detect magic; I sense it, if it’s there, whether it’s active or passive. And I seem to be immune to it. Once, when I encountered a mage, he threw fireballs at me, though I really didn’t want to eat him at all. But the fireballs dissolved before hitting me. And then he tried lightning bolts, and they also did not hurt me, though he could not have missed me. On the other hand, when I once flew into a tempest, a lightning hit me – and that hurt! I fell out of the sky, unconscious, into a lake, where I woke up quickly and swam ashore”.

Leaf rubs his chin, “By the might of Pharys! So a natural Lightning, weapons” he fingers at a little scar at my shoulder, where an arrow hit me, “can injure you – but magic cannot. Did this heal well?”

“Oh yes – I never bleed long, when I am hurt. The wounds close almost immediately, and after a short rest I feel nothing of it”.

“That definitely is magic!” says Leaf, “You know – you can do more than you think, although it comes naturally to you, not consciously. I wonder what you could achieve with proper training”.

He leans back, closing his eyes. “I’m tired”, he thinks, “I’ll defer finding a name for you until later. I must rest”. And while he drowses off, the light sphere above him fades. Darkness fills the cave.
*

Since the author shines through anyway - why not? (puff, puff - smoke ring) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

What I consider a bit strange is this: Lupo is accustomed to others wanting to hurt/kill/chase him. Care to give a short explanation - or show a reaction of Lupo? I mean - even if I were lonely and glad to find someone talking to me instead of being hostile: Wouldn't I be a bit scared, or wonder if a stranger touches me - even if my nature is gentle? Or do you plan to make Lupo sort of emotionless, immune to fear? Taking everything as it is without reasoning? In a matter-of-fact way? Or is its loneliness so strong that it takes up every non-hostile contact thankfully? Or is it so self-confident about being immortal (or near to it) that is doesn't mind?

Gender => I think, it would be a nice idea if Lupo's reactions would be that of a hermaphrodit - sometimes male, sometimes female. It could be naive (inexperienced) in interaction. Or have you (has Leaf) already decided: Lupo is male?

Are you planning to reveal a bit later on about the creator's purpose? Creation might not be blasphemous in all cases - at least not in the creator's intention

Name:
SilverSun? SunSilver?
FireWind? WindFire?
NightSun?
Eclipsia? Eclipsius?
FeatherScale?
SilverBeak?
Aquila?
Fortuitus? Fortuita?
Vero?
Peregrinus? Peregrina?

Will think up of more <running up to the shelves with name books> Ahem, seem to prefer Latin a lot <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" /> - when it comes to proper Elven names, I'm lost, then I rest my case.

When his mind is an open book to you - you know his thoughts - sense his intentions in advance - would YOU be scared?
But I get your point - and appreciate its validity - when (if ever) this is formulated into a full story, this would have to be expanded.

Male? - Yes

naive, inexperienced? - yes, I tried to hint that

invulnerable? - no

immortal? - in the sense of LOOONG lifespan, yes; otherwise no

emotionless? - no (need to expand on that!)

immune to fear? - no; certainly fear of the unknown; fear of weapons (I mean it heals, but it hurts, and he is aware that it can be fatal)

Taking everything as it is without reasoning? - That he'll have to learn, you need a counterpart for that. If all you ever had is yourself - you would question things, but you could not find answers easily.

Is its loneliness so strong that it takes up every non-hostile contact thankfully? Certainly - remember, this instance IS every non-hostile contact! It's the first - there was no, especially no bad, previous experience.

Is it so self-confident about being immortal (or near to it) that is doesn't mind? No, it is aware of the concept of death, which it is actively trying to avoid.


You are implying I have a cunning plan!? How nice of you! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Actually I am throwing around bits and pieces, collecting ideas, getting a feel for what I am comfortable with...

Developping plots, getting ideas for complete plot-lines - is a topic I deferred to a later discussion (be sure that I will come back to it)

That said - oviously the creator's view may be a totally different one. He either does not consider it blasphemous, due to his differing beliefs, or simply doesn't care. Whether this knowledge (to the reader) will be relevant for the plot, I simply don't know yet (though I concede it may be interesting - but that's not the same)

SilverSun? SunSilver? = silver is the moon (at least that's what I wrote)sun is golden light
FireWind? WindFire? = unhappy (for no obvious reason)
NightSun? = unhappy (for reasons of logic)
Eclipsia? Eclipsius? = why?
FeatherScale? = that's desperate!?
SilverBeak? = no beak; fangs!
Aquila? = too much eagle
Fortuitus? Fortuita? = has not yet proven fortitude
Vero? = not something Leaf would pick, or could judge at this point
Peregrinus? Peregrina? = ? Don't know what this saint stands for.

But I gather, there was none in your lists, where it made "click, that's it!" in your mind? Same here <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sad.gif" alt="" />

Input from a source outside this forum (to be discussed/inspiration help?):
*
Magikal Version: To each element there is an associated vowel. The dark vowels O and U stand for water and earth. U as the lowest vowel stands for the earth, as in the rumbling of an earthquake while O stands for the sound of the waves drifting ashore. (Even the symbols of the vowels reflect their elements: Water collects in holes or gets lost through them which is represented by O. The element earth is anything solid and is used to manufacture things. The Symbol U can be seen as a cup or jar, which is solid and made.) The open vowels A and E stand for fire and air respectiveley which reflect quite well the sounds that are being made by the elements. (Here too the symbols are somewhat similar to their corresponding elements: The A symbolizes a sketchy flame or a campfire, while the E either reflects the wind (or written as e reflects a turbulence). Last but not least the I symbolizes the higher forms as art or magic. This high vowel reflects the singing or the fear. (As symbol it reflects the way to higher understanding).
Now to the name: Since the Lupogryph seems to be of the elements fire, air and earth, his magic name should contain the vowels A, U and E in any wanted order.
Cultural Version: As has been said, one Name is being given by the parents and one name has to be earned (to reflect your character?). I suppose the earned name could change in your lifetime even several times. [color:"orange"]{a view not shared by myself} [/color] Since the Lupogryph has not yet had a chance to earn a name, he could choose one (or be given one) that reflects his character. [color:"orange"] {or at a later stage!} [/color] In that case he could maybe be named "Shy" or "Contact Seeker"... which helps him not to be named by an "earned" name like "Monster" or "Horrible" later on...
*
(the source is one of my brothers)

Hi everyone! Dropped in for a moment and noticed this very interesting topic and couldn't help but add my impressions.

First I want to say that although I definitely enjoy writing, that I don't consider myself a pro; however, I do consider myself a "professional" reader <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />.

Having said that - I would like to say that I have only read this page (due to limited free time) so I am basing my unsolicited opinion only on the passage above. First, I would like to say that it was very well written; however, as a reader I received no sense of emotion at all. Have you ever seen 2001: Space Odyssey with Hal the computer? And how he has that almost emotionless voice? That is how it translated in my head as I was reading it. When reading for enjoyment I want something that engages my senses - the more I am involved with the characters, whether they bring me to laughter or tears - the better I enjoy it. You want your readers to feel what your main character is feeling (and when you use your first person voice "I" that person is the character your readers try to more closely identify with). Of course, being a female reader - I probably want all that "touchy feely" stuff - even if it has a male bias to it.

Hmmm, have you considered letting the creature be a male for a thousand years and then a female for a thousand years? Again, since I have only read this page I am not sure this is a possibility or not. I have the impression that the creature is immortal unless it meets with some sort of fatal "accident" so it is certainly possible that it could morph between the two sexes.

So here I am hoping you don't think me too presumptuous for offering my humble opinion (but giving it anyway <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> ). <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

[color:"yellow"]Peregrinus? Peregrina?[/color] => Latin for foreign, strange, unknowing. Stranger, Non-civilian (Nichtbürger), pilgrim, crusader. I just modified the female gender ending "a", in case you wanted to change. But "us" is the noun.
[color:"yellow"]Peregrinor[/color] => verb => wander in the unknown, journey around. Pilgrimage. Being strange, unknown
Source: Langenscheidts Taschenwörterbuch der lat. u. dt. Sprache

Yes, Glance, you're right. No name made click in myself. It's a pity that Lupo changes into the Fix&Foxi Comic Lupo in my imagination.

If I may use the privilege of my gender to change my mind about Lupo's lack of strong emotions (fear) => he represents the elements air (reason, thinking), earth (pragmatic, matter-of-fact) and fire (aggression, dynamics). So, Lupo lacks water (deep emotions, going into the dark, unknown) => so, his non-reaction to Leaf's touch is logical <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />

Hmmmmm, maybe it would be nice for him to learn this (and maybe adapt?) He has the advantage to read minds - does he have the ability to read the sub-conscious, what is hidden for the other one? And if => can he understand it, as he lacks the empathy of water? In any case, Lupo fascinates me. I'm looking forward to how you will develop him.
Kiya

@ DQueene: no opinion is un-solicited, otherwise I would not have posted a question here. However you flipping back one (1) page and reading the two parts in context may broaden your impression significantly and allow you to offer a more than humble opinion by a "professional reader" knowing the whole text in question!?

"The voice": Yes, I have seen the film - and read the book - and...

...this triggers an intriguing question: What's "the tone of voice" in telepathy? Are there, could there be, any variations in tone?

I mean - I did not do it on purpose, but is not DQueene's impression of an un-emotional, factual "voice" exactly what it should be? Or at least, what would be expected?

Or - in DQueene's own words [color:"orange"] that almost emotionless voice? That is how it translated in my head as I was reading it [/color]- it DID convey a picture! And not necessarily a wrong one. OK - she doesn't like it - but the lack of feeling is still a feeling the writing triggered in the reader.

[color:"orange"] DQueene: Hmmm, have you considered letting the creature be a male for a thousand years and then a female for a thousand years?

Kiya: ...he lacks the empathy of water & ...maybe it would be nice for him to learn this (and maybe adapt?) [/color]

I'll bookmark these thoughts in the back of my mind - wild idea/concept, but tempting...
(...but being a male chauvinist ( <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />), I would have to think what would be progress in development in the third millenium, after "female" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />)


Have all politicians suddenly turned female? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Maybe an outsider creature(from another plane?)(in the wrong world?)? Since it's a LupoGryph.

Formulating name.....