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Ill answer if we really want to get into the nature of God...but...lets stay on topic its a good one.


Fair enough, what is the purpose of the design?


You know I have never been asked that, its a good question...hmm, at first glance I would say to promote life...but Ill have to think about it.

So did anyone catch the part about the loss of free will in a materialists world? How would you non-believers answer that?

Do you deny free will?
Do you accept that there is something beyond the physical?
Something else?

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />

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Rather than offer you the illusion of free choice, I will take the liberty of choosing for you... if and when your time comes round again.
--G-man, Half-life²--


That quote always bugged me since it suggested that everything you do in the game was predetermined. Scary it would be so in real life. That would mean that all the wars destruction diseases and suffering is determined by a higher being. I for one don't believe in being a toy of the gods.


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The one about free will is difficult. It would depend on time i suppose. If time isn't moving then there is no free will.

For example: If you could travel into the future 10 days, then then the future has always been there, since the beginning of time. If this is true then everying predetermined. If you could go backwards, then it's the same. If however, the future and the past do not exist on any level, then free will determines the next event.

I might be talking complete crap here, so many things are involved <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/stupid.gif" alt="" />


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The one about free will is difficult. It would depend on time i suppose. If time isn't moving then there is no free will.

For example: If you could travel into the future 10 days, then then the future has always been there, since the beginning of time. If this is true then everying predetermined. If you could go backwards, then it's the same. If however, the future and the past do not exist on any level, then free will determines the next event.

I might be talking complete crap here, so many things are involved <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/stupid.gif" alt="" />


Everyone knows from "back to the future" time spits in an other time line if you go to the past and change things or change things you know would happen by going into the future.

Unless you are folowing Futurama's pre destination rules from the "why of fry"?


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I always found it interesting to go back in time, I could prevent the Hitlers' parents to have sex that night, I could arrange to win the lottery and I would find a cure for the diseases yet to come. But what if all that would turn out bad and I throw my future away?? Something to think about... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />



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Well Futurama uses 2 different time travel rules

roswell that ends well seems to indicate of pre destination of the future when fry became his own grandfather while "the why of fry" indicates that you can change the future since he said to nibbler "scotty puff Jr" suuuuuucccccks . We see him then transported back now with a "scotty puff Sr". But in anthology of interest when fry changes his future not to be frozen the universe ends?

And then their are Terminator rules (why no clothes???) terminator 1 suggest pre destination since the man sent back was the father of the rebel leader. terminator 2 seems you can change the future since the nuclear war was averted when they destroyer the terminator chip. But where did the chip come from when the chip was needed for the trigger the nuclear war? Well terminator 3 suggest that it was enevatable and that terminator 2 with the chip of terminator 1 could have speed up the process.

Well back to the topic.

futurama had somthing of a inteligent design once in the episode goddafellows where the god being says this quote

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God: When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.


also bender interprets this as
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Leela: Oh no the monks. We forgot to let them out of the laundry room.

Fry: Do we have to? I mean they're monks. I'm sure their God will let them out or at least give them more shoes to eat.

Bender: Fat chance. You can't count on God for jack. He pretty much told me so himself. Now come on. If we don't save those monks no one will!


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Morbo you are amazingly efficient at getting off topic! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" />

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Morbo you are amazingly efficient at getting off topic! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" />


It is the evolution of a topic, or did Morbo create it?


The question is not, Can they reason? nor, Can they talk? but, Can they suffer?
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Morbo you are amazingly efficient at getting off topic! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" />


It is the evolution of a topic, or did Morbo create it?


<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />

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Perhaps there is something beyond the psyical world but there is no reason to believe it is spiritual. There could be different planes of existance all over-lapping. Each one slightly influencing the others. Like in the book: The Talisman. Yeah, I know this is pure fiction (the book) but it's as reasonable as any other theory <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />


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I wasn't off-topic that much I think. every post had a loose link to the thread.


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I think it is a good thing if they teach in schools what the intelligent design “theory” is and what it is based on, as long as it is made on an objective mind. Examining every belief & point of view is a good thing; it promotes open-mindness and forces people to be more acute towards the explanations & reasons that they take for granted. When it would become a bad thing would be if it was imposed as THE truth, condemning & without teaching objectively the evolutionism theory and the Facts on wich it is based too.
The problem with a lot of the big religions, and that is at the origin of the one with the creationism defenders, is that lack of open-mindness and that tendency to feel that they have to convert people to their view. The scientific method is: Here are the facts; what conclusion can we make of it? But the creationist one is: There is the conclusion; what facts can we find to support it? And what is also deplorable is that they spread major comprehension errors about what is really evolution.

As for the question about the origins, I agree that nothing will ever be found to contradict that life here comes from intelligent design, even if we come to be able to show that life can born out of inorganic matter by chemichal reactions. Pushed to that limit, they’ll always can say: ok, it can be; but what proves that it’s what happened, and not that a superior being saw to it?
And about the initial event... my knowledge expectations don’t go that far. What was there before the big bang? Where does the matter come from? We don’t even know well what the world is made of... And it is not a question to wich I need an answer to the point of choosing one. Same for the question of what’s after death.

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So did anyone catch the part about the loss of free will in a materialists world? How would you non-believers answer that?


Free will can be explained in another way that does not contradict the materialist point of view and that also fits the evolution principle. Take what Erich Fromm states like the essential characteristics of the human condition: the decreasing of the instinctual determinism and the increasing of the brain. Man’s decisions aren’t taken for him by the instinct, he doesn’t know automaticly where to go and what to do; he is conscious and has to make choices. And the consequences of that conciousness are the insecurity, helplessness and disorientation, wich Man prevents to get drown by by searching for answers to all those hard questions, that quest to have certitudes and the tendency to rely on religions. There would the cultural aspect come from. Man is a product of nature but would transcend it; he makes himself.


Now, see an evidence of the evolutionism (and how some people seem to have evolved less that others <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" />):

[Linked Image]
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif" alt="" />


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@ Lafille
Great evidence of the existence of the Bush-chimp!! I knew that animal existed somewhere, but I never saw any pics of it!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" />



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This is abusive <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" />
We can`t compare an intelligent creature with a stupid Animal.

So please LaFille excuse you by the Chimp <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" />

Pic 11 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />


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Aber wenn man das einzelne nicht mehr beachtet, hat das ganze keinen Sinn mehr (Stone)
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<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shhh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" />
i feel like im back at college reading text books again when i read some of these posts heh with some of this cited material and mobo jumbo <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />

anyways if and when this super computer gets built and causes a war of machine vs human......then it will know it shall be terminated
cause it predicted from the molecules in my blood sample that i would bust it with a baseball bat <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />

:P

in any case i would believe it to be healthy to strike middle ground, for if both ends of the cirlce do not meet then its not a circle at all :P

its a dot


This is SpArTa!! oh im sorry, I must have took a wrong turn..somewhere...(runs away)
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Clearly Jacques Chirac could not be the result of intelligent design.


The question is not, Can they reason? nor, Can they talk? but, Can they suffer?
~Jeremy Bentham
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for more material to proof evolution and its flaws:

[Linked Image]
made this myself mind u.


It's one of these days...
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@ Dragh
Now you have given me a new nightmare!! Poor mother of that creature!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I never knew that Bush sr. couldn't keep his hands of an Orangutan. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />


edit: btw Dragh, good job! I would like to have one made of my mother in law looking like Hyacint Bucket! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by galadriel; 10/08/05 09:49 PM.


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@Stone
Oh yes, I have so much remorse that this morning when I woke up I found out that I had I dissimulated banana rinds everywhere in the house during my sleep so I would slip (or at least get dirty) by stepping on it, just to punish myself. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />
Or maybe was it just doggie who stole a banana and didn't like the rind... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/stupid.gif" alt="" />

@Dragh
Good work! Just add the ears, and he could replace Mr. DoubleU when he's tired without anybody noticing it... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> (after a little shaving, of course; that must be his weekend-look <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" /> )


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Clearly Jacques Chirac could not be the result of intelligent design.


I agree


MG!!! The most infamous member these forums have ever got!
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