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I think that even some computer games could also be considered art as they were rather inventive and highly experimental. Though as of late, I don't see many games you could call art since many focus more on technicality than on artistic aspects. The result is often pretty but boring eyecandy that doesn't do much to enhance gameplay: better antialiasing would not really help me in combat in an rpg game.

Smoother pixels and better animations on an npc would technically make for a more convincing gameworld but only if their dialogues are coherent and mesh with the ongoing plotline.

To me, some games look more like art o me than others.

Strategy games and FPS mostly not.

One rare example is Beyond Good & Evil, or maybe Sacrifice as well.

Well I don't think so, FPS & RTS games with realistic settings do appear not to be artsy, and in many cases are just replicas of realworld settings. But there are a lot leveldesigners, characterdesigners in FPS's that are real artists for example this guy: http://www.hourences.com/portfolio/

It could be argued that some of them are a form of interactive literature, too. Especially those like PS:T that have an incredible story.

I can't believe that you underestimated us this much.

It is your quality that has made us this way!

I guess if someone would let me to, I could create some art with these tools as well.

But I'm rather a "literary man", something the gaming busness does not want (to see).

Games have always had very little text, and apart from adventures and "standard" role playing games, the amount of text has been reduced more & more, in an effort to "streamlind" games more & more for gaining more buyers.

Publishers want money, no text.

Developers are a different thing, those.

LIke the both examples of PS:T and DS.

Oh, talking about art again: there're visual novels(mixed-media novels) which are considered an art form 'cos of the high quality CG artwork and excellent voice-acting in most of them and tastefully rendered sexual scenes in a number of them.

Some consider them as games 'cos many have features/qualities found in computer games like RTS, RPG, adventure/puzzle games, etc. while others don't as they're "digital novels" and thus, have little interactivity and freedom. And since, they're novels, it's like flipping through a picture book than through a largely animated world.

Sad to say, they aren't very popular outside of Japan 'cos lots of people hate reading anything apart from popular literature these days and many hate reading anything with more than 15 words, whether it be offline or on the computer. I heard lots of people hated Witcher 'cos of the amount of text in it and 'cos they preferred to let a game do the thinking for them. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />

Weird... There's not much text IN The Witcher!

Well, yeah... that's how spoilt some people are these days.

They want more cards <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif" alt="" />

Mmm... not just that. I think some wanted nothing but combat and would've preferred there to be no story, either.

in response to:
'the games-industry is a huge pie, and Belgium wants a piece of it.'
and other on the same lines;
I can't really imagine Belgium cashing in on a developer like Larian. On an annual budget of 95 billion euro a year, some taxes on the sales of a computergame barely make an impact. And even with taxbreaks (!) I doubt wether a lot more studios or, for that matter, other programming companies will suddenly come to Belgium and make some big bucks. But I don't have any numbers on it, so I could be completely wrong. And with taxbreaks, I really don't think that it will create jobs for hundreds of people (and then even hundreds on a working population of a few million?).

Aha, but what would you think of a person saying that line. As Terry Pratchett said in Small Gods I believe; 'Gods don't like people doing nothing, becasuse people doing nothing might start to think' (or something like that). Personaly, I rather have my government provide good education, safety, healthcare etc etc instead of entertainment. I can entertain myself, and I don't want a situation in which I need my own M16 under my pillow to protect myself.

About art, ok, a computergame can be considered art, no argument from me. But I how many of all the people playing games consider those games as art? It's easy for an artist to consider his work art, and to someone who knows what he is talking about, it can easily be art, but to the masses, where most of the revenue comes from, it is just entertainment (for a small period of time to). Just like with films.
I would say that there are films who shouldn't get taxbreaks (mindnumbing films) and films that should (arthouse films). But which film will become what is quite hard to predict in advance, and who would be the judges... So perhaps (because I like films) it is better that all films(companies) get government support. And then indeed, so should games (or their developers).

I actually don't know what you are trying to get at? Lar said there is a discussion about governmental funding of the game industry... the fact that you can't or can imagine that won't really change the debate. And believe it or not but there are countries in which computer and video games get financial and cultural aid...

I wasn't really trying to make a point or to change people's minds. To me it sounded a bit weird. I just wanted to know why a lot of people were in favour of those subsidies.
And as far as a quick google search can tell me, writers (of books) don't get any taxbreaks (when writing is their main income that is). In Holland anyway. But the more I read, the more I get the feeling that asking for (and getting) subsidy (from government) is not uncommon for a writer (or publisher).
Just thinking aloud and trying to get a well-formed opinion <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Well, computer games aren't funded because they are art but because it's a business... big games have big budgets... they create synergy effects... improve the location's value... create jobs... generate tax income... and so on and so forth...

Computer and video games are a very promising and future-oriented branch. If you compare today's business to the one 10 years ago for example, you will agree with me that there are great differences... the whole scene has vastly improved. And so, it's quite obvious that governments want to make sure to draw such companies and the working people into their own countries. That's why the comparison with a writer is pretty wrong. Mainly because a writer is just one person... the mentioned aspects don't play a role in the writers' branch.

Writing a novel is also relatively cheap and takes less time, usually. The less successful authors usually hold down other jobs to support their writing, too - an option not really available to a games company.

Amen.

Sad but true.
That's probably what makes the indy game scene look so interesting to me...

Just to avoid any misunderstandings: I didn't want to say that computer games are not art... no matter if it's art or not, it's also big business.

Look at the movies... a gigantic business but still there are very, very nice movies which can be regarded as art by people.

Sure.
But most of the time, the quality of a movie (as a piece of art I mean, not just as entertainment) is inversely proportional to the budget. Of course, you sometimes have exceptions...

We even know that www.divinity2.com points to larian <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />