Larian Studios Forums Divinity 2 - Ego Draconis (English) Divinity 2 - Ego Draconis On these signs over the heads of the people ...

Hello,

last evening/night I was finally watching the GC trailer and the videos courtesy of Xanlosch.

What I actually didn't like were the "industry standard" signs over the heads of the people.

You know, exclamation marks, question marks floating over ther heads of quest-givers, and in some screenshots there's a red kind-of-arrow floating over someone's head.

I firmly believe that these distract from immersion.
They just don't "belong" to the world of !

Therefore, I'd like to have an approach where these signals floating over the heads can be turned off or on, respectively. I'd rather like to be surprised to receiove a quest when I'm just talking to someone than to know from the beginning that this particular person has a quest to give away.

A similar thing is there in Drakensang: Question marks in the (mini-)map show places of quests to be solved.

I don't have anything against NPCs marking their quest-related places or/and items on a ma in general, but I'd rather like to have the choice whether to have it on or switched off. As an explorer-type, I'd rather try out and stumble upon these quest-related places or items instead of knowing from the beginning where they are.

Since choice is freedom, I'd like to have switches in the game which enable both (quest-markers and over-the-heads-floting signs) to be switched on or off.

Alrik

Yeah I agree, I dont like them either.
But maybe there are so many NPCs around that it could be very frustrating to have to speak to them all or to remember who it was that gave the quest.

I just really hope that there isn't some kind of compass where I just run in the direction it tells me to run and just keep doing that for the entire game.

I would also much rather explore the world bit by bit and have some kind of fog over the map untill I have actually been there. At least that way I know where I have been and where I haven't.

I'm neutral about them. I play games with them already, and games without, and both work fine. I see what you mean about them potentially ruining immersion. While a toggle for on/off would be nice, it might also be good to have a hotkey assignable function. Hold down Alt, for instance, and the symbols pop up and stay that way until you release the Alt key. That way they can be useful at the touch of a button but not ruin the immersion factor of the game by always having them there.

But that's what the journal or logbook feature is for.

Instead of the generic symbols that do somewhat spoil immersion, why not have the name of the NPC pop up when you 'target' them (there's no cursor, but surely there's some 'dot' or indicator to show you where you are aiming). Between knowing the name of each NPC you encounter and having a physical log of your quests and quest-givers, this should eliminate the need for the symbols from Sacred, DSII, Titan Quest, etc.

Oh please no quest arrows on the compass! They're impossible to ignore and detract from the exploration of the game world. Fog of war on the map will likely be an option, I'd guess. I would leave it on and perhaps switch it off every now and then to 'cheat' and see where things and places are.

As Alrik said these features can be helpful and aren't necessarily bad as long they can be switched on and off.

Yes it is, but in case the NPC's are not standing still and moving around, it wil be very hard to find the right one in a crowded area. There is a lot of frustration involved in searching for him or her then. Although I doubt all guest givers are in crowded areas

An added bonus of having the exlamation marks is that you don't miss quests that easily.
Personally I don't mind that much if they are there or not. I'm in generally more bothered with not knowing I opened every chest, broken every barrel, did all available quests yet or explored ever inch of the area. An extra bit of help in those areas does not give me the feeling I'm immersed any less. For me immersion is not about a simulation of real life where we don't have exclamation and question marks hovering above us, but about to what extend a game is able to keep me from stop playing it.
Then again if these small helpers are not there I won't be bothered that much either. I'll just grind my teeth a few times more often while trying to find that Go%$#^*m NPC again

I can see Alrik's point, in that it definitely does detract from immersion, but... honestly, I'm not that bothered.

It's certainly nothing I'd consider in any way critical.

I don't think having symbols over NPCs' heads is any more detrimental to immersion than seeing an NPC's name and hitpoints when you run the mouse cursor over them, for example. The problem with symbols, IMO, is that they can be used to dumb down a game (by guiding the player through a specific path). I really doubt that Larian would do that, though.

There needs to be some way (preferably subtle) to draw attention to significant NPCs. Traditionally these NPCs have been dressed more elaborately, or positioned in strategic locations, etc, which is harder to do if you have a lot of unique NPCs that can move around. If the symbols only show up when you get near an NPC, then I think it would be something you could just get used to and ignore (if it is not possible to turn it off).

A ruin at NPCs' feet might fit into the game better, as it could be part of a dragon slayer's abilities (if you can read minds, you should be able to detect when someone nearby is trying to attract your attention). Actually, even if the ? and ! symbols were just changed to ruins, colour coded balls or an aura around an NPC's head, it would be much more immersive. That would still leave the issue of how much guiding / hand-holding is wanted or required, but I'm sure that would be something that was brought up in the design of that system.

In any case, the artwork wasn't done when the video was made, so the symbols may or may not have been intended to be final in style or implementation.

Runes would add a little more character to the symbols, but they would remain as the OP suggested (distract from immersion). The aura idea is more subtle, but might be a tad annoying as all the NPCs would have this glow about them, and different lighting may make the aura look different in different areas. A hotkey activated toggle still seems to be the best of both worlds, although, again, I'm not bothered by the symbols.

Maybe I should hire a craftsman to build me hats that are shaped like a question mark, an exclamation mark, and maybe a comma ?

Now THAT would be ... Um ... Break immersion of Real Life ?


Edit: I instantly like the "runes" approach ! It is something different ...

By the way, in PS:T there is Fell, who only talks through having signs floating over his head !
(Which, in fact, make up small riddles - that's his way of taling !)

for the sake of convenience (i might be extra lazy at times), those signs can be helpful. overall, it's not detrimental to my way of gaming. i agree that options to switch on or off would be nice.

It's a game. It's bound to be full of things that make no sense in real life. You can't carry 10 swords, 100 arrows, 3 bows, 15 bottles of stuff, 6 books and some armor pieces with you, without having a big bag on your back, where all this stuff fits in. Yet the character on my screen is able to magically let all this stuff disappear into thin air and make it magically re-appear whenever I press a key on my keyboard. Still it doesn't bother anybody that this is a very unrealistic behavior compared to real life.
Games are full of stuff like this. I would like to have a journal that automatically annotates the main events in my life. Being able to save and re-load would be nice to do as well. Having an exclamation or question mark above someone probably would have its merits in real life too

Anyway, it's your experience so your entitled to feel to what extend it influences the level of immersion you have. But for me immersion is not related to how good it compares to real life.

It would be nice to turn off the ? and ! npc help. But to be honest, if Larian does what they did with Divinity, we will have more npc's then we can shake a stick it (the stick would catch fire if you would try) and it will be more of a benefit than hindrance to see what npc's are offering quests(?) or have rewards(!). It is mostly there to prevent people from getting lost within a ton of npc's.

I've found it very useful in a few mmorpg's I've played. Sadly those games are flooded with bots, quests are all kill X amount of monsters, or the monsters and environments are too boring after a while.

@Myrtos: Yes, but in earlier times we just didn't have this stuff of question marks floating over/on the heards of people. I might be wrong, but I think that Blizzard was the first to invent & use this, and then everyone copies it. It has become some kind of "industry standard" since then. (Of course, mini maps are a similar thing, but they don't break the immersion as such for me, because they belong to the HUD, not to the in-game world.

These floating thingies just break the immersion so much for mew, because they look as if they were in-game, but in fact they are "out-game", so to say, and should rather appear in the HUD or anywhere else, but not as if they avtually belong to characters.)

Baldur's Gate and the likes never had those exclamation marks and all, and those were are great RPG's. And yes you were talking to NPC's that didn't have anything that helped you further.
And yes quests were missed from time to time. But it was fun.
I'm with Alrik here . Don't like it when they hold my hand too much .

How about an option allowing you to turn them on/off? I can't imagine it being that much work to pull of.

That's what I suggested in the first place.

I want an option to turn these signs on and off, because choice is freedom.

I honestly totally agree with the OP. They remind me too much of Sacred and stuff like that, really... I'm not gonna pretend anything though, 'cause in the end I'm sure it'll turn out well (since it is Larian-made) :P.