Larian Studios Forums Divinity 2 - Ego Draconis (English) Divinity 2 - Ego Draconis Challenge to Bioware or just another Drakensang?

I rather believve the Sheep-theory :

Mostr of all people are just sheep. They want no harm, just stand there and eat and feel good.

The evil ones are the wolves, and the shepherd hounds are the policemen.

According to your theory, something like the German volunteering firemen would not be possible, because no-one would want to do similar good deeds - and that all of the time. For the society as a whole.

volunteers usually do it for what they get out of it. To think you get nothing back for being a volunteer, that's an illusion. True selfless acts are exceedingly rare. I mean, I have been a volunteer for many things, all of those things were things I enjoy doing. Nobody goes volunteer-oil drilling.

Yes, but enjoying things is part of what makes humans human, I thought.

Your reply sounds as if you are trying very hard to play positive sides down.

meh, I just think the sheep and the wolves are equally neutral - they're just surviving the way they know how... The shepard dogs protect the weak, but every one of them is thinking about their own belly at any time.

Well, sheep can kill wolves, too, if they do it right.

true, but that only proves my point that they're no different from the wolves in terms of good/evil :p

Divine Divinity was a diablo 2 + baldur's gate 2 hybrid. And yes, it was one of the best cRPG's in the history.

Well, they dont want to play clear evil. Most of them just want to do everything they want. They dont understand what is "to be good". They understand only "what is good for me and no matter if its bad for you". Evil hero is symbol to do everything freely, selfishly, without restrictions - and thats what they want. Its a way to escape from a world.

Its not easy and obvious thing to listen to others, to be able to create and have bonds, to abide laws or traditions, to learn, to self-develop. You must be educated from childhood to accept it and learn how to communicate and live in society. Only children wants everything quickly, without work and without restrictions - and many things can be "restrictive" - to be kind to friends it also some kind of restriction and needs to be learnt. To abide the law in society, to respect older generation, to work hard to buy something expensive - its also some kind of restriction and need some work. If so many people are selfish or dumb and want everything easy and quickly (unfortunately "dumb" is really the right word), its logical that companies (TV, movie/game/music industry etc) present them everything in their way of thinking. Companies just wants to earn money. Evil heroes are only an example of this trend.

And yes, its definitely mindless... But what can we do about it? To create and support games that are fun but also have some "EDUCATIONAL VALUE"? Nothing obvious and distracting, but something deeper in characters, in a story and actions of NPCs that will grab you to think about it? Maybe...

Maybe its off topic, but definitely interesting topic.

To me, it's rather a question of what comes from within ?

I can force someone into folowing laws,
or I can try to ignite the conscience in someone.

And that - imho - has something to do with empathy.

Most games I know don't favour empathy and compassion anymore. The old Vitues of Ultima seem to be lost.

Instead, games like the action RPGs by Blizzard are so designed that they don't even imply compassion. all that counts is killing. Killing, nothing more, no mercy. Only killing vbrings one to the end goal, so to say.

One must step back and actually consider that this is NOT a real-life-lesson, but instead that of an in-game world. (With)In Blizzard's Action-RPGs it works very well, but how far is the ability to actually step back from all of this developed ? Especially in younger players ?

Because the deed of actual "stepping back" and being aware of the own self and its actions is imho quite a thing which must be learned ? Are *all* gamers able to "step back" and look at the own deeds made within a game, look at the emotions they felt meanwhile doing certain in-game deeds ?

I often hear the argument of rationalizing a game ... I believe that this is also a learning process which must be made.

One must actually learn to distinguish between the "game self" and the "real life self" !

I do hope that all gamers succeed with this learning lesson, but I fear that some don't as far enough as they should to, imho.

Of course. I didnt mean that you have "to force" someone to understand. There are more ways of learning and education. Some may be slight but have strong effect. Yes, ignite the conscience is the way.

I am pleased that you mentioned Ultima and virtues. Ultima series (Ultima Underworld) is one of my all time favourites. And system of virtues is perfect example of the thing I wrote about in previous post (that "educational value" that doesnt look educational at all). I seemed so interesting and deep to me (years ago when I played the game) that I had to think about the world and what means to be hero to inspire people, not just killer of monsters - and what is the "way to be avatar".