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Nonsensei #401151 14/01/10 01:40 AM
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Diablo is not RPG game Diablo is H$S game jesus NONSENSEI u dont see the diferences?
most important is ANY H&S got MULTIPLAYER and is why thre is respawn
same nwn got respawn in multiplayer servers for same reazon
look on DAO there is NO RESPAWN and wtf is DAO suffers by this NO ITS NOT
the real problem wih d2 is bad balanced lvls of mobs or should i say lack fo big lvl mobs so your whole lvling point is from ass , becoue on lvl 30+ every mob can suck your sword or whatever so what a point in power lvling yourse;f anyway ? if u like to get lvl 30 on lvl 3 mobs and than by whole game run around and kill everything on one shoot get some trainers imho is good for noobs like u or use some cheats cuz game is "to hard" without brainless grinding whatever . this game is freeking to easy without power lvling posibilities so how bad this was be if thre is mob rspawn ? even worst


Nonsensei #401169 14/01/10 03:24 AM
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Theyre fanboys because they are defending the fact that a feature is missing from a game and twisting a negative into a positive.

So it is not just a matter of opinion, your position is absolutely correct, and no reasonable person could possibly disagree. The mere act of disagreeing proves a person unreasonable, or a liar, obviously motivated to come up with some desperate excuses because they are a fanboy.

So why was it that Larian, with complete control over the game design, somehow failed to implement this essential feature? I think there are a few more of those desperate excuses if you read the introduction in the manual...


It doesnt have anything to do with disagreeing with me.

Must be nice that your preferred playstyle matches up so well with the universal perfect truth of RPG game design.


A measured analysis of this situation would make a normal person wonder why Larian didnt include an option for respawn so that both playstyles could accommodated.

Perhaps they don't like respaning opponents? Maybe they didn't want to make a Diablo clone?
There are a lot of options they could have included, but didn't. Why not add an option for party members, with lots of interaction and personal history/quests, etc, for people who prefer to play party based games? Or is it ridiculous to compare a feature to a universal gaming truth such as respawning?


Instead people just say "its fine you arent a real RPG fan". Thats being a fanboy.

Nobody is arguing you can't like the style of games that you like, or that that isn't a perfectly valid position. It is not the only valid position, however.


Why would killing opponents be something you would want to avoid?

It can be very boring and repetitive, IMO, when you have to keep doing it over and over.
I have played games with respaning opponents, or random encounters, and have taken advantage of that to level when I've had trouble, or to get enough gold for new equipment, etc. However, the games in question were designed with that dynamic from the start. Sometimes there was enough to the game that respawning didn't bother me, sometimes I had to take breaks from the hack and slash, and a couple times I've just become too bored with it to continue. It is not up to the game to conform to my expectations, though.


How does having to clear an area again deny your sense of accomplishment for clearing it the first time?

By making it completely pointless.

Wouldnt that just mean your are satisfied with having cleared it twice? Double the satisfaction.

Doing pointless things over and over for diminishing rewards isn't my idea of unlimited satisfaction.


How does having to kill some enemies again equate to not having any effect on the game world? Thats an overreaction.

By definition, if you do something, and some short time later everything is back where it started, you had no effect. You have a little extra experience and loot, but the world itself is unchanged.


Enough is enough when I say its enough. Not when some developer says its enough. I want to be able to level as much as i please and then decide on my own that its time to finish the game.

Are there any games that meet that criteria? Even MMOs designed to be played for years have level caps. I don't know of any game that uses levels without at least a technical level cap.


Capping the number of available enemies in the game is tantamount to controlling how long players can play.

You can play as long as you wish. There is some a practical limit on how long any particular instance of the game can be played, but that is true of almost every game. RPGs as a group tend to have the longest playtime, but I think very few would meet your infinite playtime requirement.

Raze #401220 14/01/10 10:05 AM
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*grabs a chair and some popcorn*

I love a good debate. The combatants are even using proper grammar and punctuation: a rare theat!

Don't mind me, do continue but keep the name calling to a minimum.

Nonsensei #401280 14/01/10 02:33 PM
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Theyre fanboys because they are defending the fact that a feature is missing from a game and twisting a negative into a positive. It doesnt have anything to do with disagreeing with me. A measured analysis of this situation would make a normal person wonder why Larian didnt include an option for respawn so that both playstyles could accommodated. Instead people just say "its fine you arent a real RPG fan". Thats being a fanboy.

Firstly, there were many posts against respawms that were first posts or less than 10 posts. Hardly counts as fanboys in my book. Secondly, Larian probably did a MEASURED ANALYSIS of their resources, coupled with their vision of the game, and concluded respawns couldn't/shouldn't need to be implemented. Besides, how would they accomodate your request...a on/off toggle? I can't even imagine the technical problems or dev resources that option would spawn wink or eat up.

Why would killing opponents be something you would want to avoid?
How does having to clear an area again deny your sense of accomplishment for clearing it the first time? Wouldnt that just mean your are satisfied with having cleared it twice? Double the satisfaction.

How does having to kill some enemies again equate to not having any effect on the game world? Thats an overreaction.

I drove from Florida to New York and back over the holidays...I was damn glad I got through it and I sure don't want to do it again, UNLESS I HAVE TO! No more of an overreaction than his point.

I disagree that respawns cannot be tacked on as an after thought. The solution to mind reading is simple: instead of consuming XP just provide a limited number of times it can be used. As for the enemy balancing and game pacing, yes that would be upset. Thats the idea. Some people like to earn that effect. Thats the point of respawns.

Come again? What in the hell does one have to do with the other? As for being tacked on later, that's accomplished more readily with DLC and expansion packs...make the game bigger/longer AND have more enemies to fight.

Enough is enough when I say its enough. Not when some developer says its enough. I want to be able to level as much as i please and then decide on my own that its time to finish the game. At my leisure. Lets be honest here. Capping the number of available enemies in the game is tantamount to controlling how long players can play. its really just a step short of simply teleporting you to the final boss when the last enemy dies and forcing the final confrontation on you, then closing the program. I want control over when that happens, and its not an unreasonable request for $49.95.

You could play this or any other game 24/7/365 if you so choose. As others have said, EVERY game has it's limits...there might be different restrictions, but they exist. Diablo 2, WoW, Civ4, Baldur's Gate, Sacred, the list goes on...but at some point, you accomplish all there is to accomplish and you either start over, or you move on to another game. That's debatable for MP and MMO, but IMO, those are the main two types of games that you can come close to what you are describing.

I'm talking about how progression through the game world reminds me of playing an FPS. You're stuck on a locomotive heading to the final destination at a tightly controlled pace. there might be a few forks in the road but they all lead to the same place at the same time. The fact that this "RPG" reminds me of an "FPS" the most, despite the more cosmetic differences, is the point. That's not a good thing.

Oblivion, NWN, Fallout, KOTOR, Starcraft, Gothic, Div2...examples of less or more linearity, but all have the same thing in common: no matter what path you choose, or is chosen for you, the game was designed to have a final battle. It's the nature of the game...


How is it unrealistic? Plenty of games have done it.

Lists, man, lists...I ain't from Missouri, but show me anyway.

Such a predictable response to which the obvious answer is that you didn't provide a list either, so i guess you obviously cant, too.

"face palm"...don't work that way, I challenged first, it's called put up or shut up. From a favorite movie, "I triple-dog dare you".

Actually it apparently does take a freshmen level of psychology to figure that one out because you were wrong. I'm naming games that this game reminds me of. The fact that not a single one of them is an RPG is telling.

And yes, of course, once the question of age comes up suddenly everyone is a geriatric. Im 27. I played a hand-me-down atari when i was a kid, and have been gaming ever since. Saying that my gaming history originates from Devil May Cry is dumb.

Isn't that where that game came from where that little white dot keeps respawning, so you can hit it over and over? It's all so clear now...

Says you! Again, youre defining what an RPG is and then declaring that games which dont meet YOUR definition are not true RPGS, but merely have "RPG elements". Again, the self serving rule emerges.

Nope, call me a sheep...I'm very unoriginal and follow the herd, if you will, that pretty much say the same thing. Larian, Bioware, Bethesda, Interplay, Black Isle, etc., you know, the ones that develop and call their games RPG's.


Last edited by SheaOhmsford; 14/01/10 02:34 PM.

Is reality just a fantasy?
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*takes a chair and joins Greever in amazed contemplation*


Hot the Dimsums please...
DimSum #401384 14/01/10 11:00 PM
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So, are you two sharing popcorn during your 10 minute lunch break, or is the second patch done and you have lots of time to lounge around???

evil

DimSum #401389 14/01/10 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Greever

I love a good debate. The combatants are even using proper grammar and punctuation: a rare theat!


Take your time and enjoy. Its clear that combatants are mostly higher levels and are skilled in more areas, right? They are able to dodge jabbing of their opponents and strikes them with Hammers of Ultimate True. They can smash enemy ideas using spells like Tornado of Arguments and fill up paragraphs with rain of fire like dragons attacking Fortress of Epic Developer's Fails. What a battle... horsey hehe

You developers work for many months to bring us some visually epic battles in a game. And we fans can do the same using mere - words. :hihi:


Originally Posted by DimSum

*takes a chair and joins Greever in amazed contemplation*


You must be glad that you have such inspiring and amazing fan community here, dont you? crazy
Well, although we are amazing (of course noone can deny that, we have Hammers...) I must admit that there is something lacking a bit. This debate still needs a little better font and few effects like flashing words to be as much stunning and awe-inspiring as watching Avatar... jawdrop oops silly

Libertarian #401447 15/01/10 06:31 AM
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I created this account just so I could thank the OP for saving me some cash.

I was researching this game by browsing the forums, as I do every time Im considering a new game.

And thanks to this thread being so close to the top he has saved me a lot of time and some cash. I watched the trailers and game-play vids and thought this was so cool I need it.
Then I come here and a few posts in I find out that enemies do not re-spawn? I agree WTF! is that?

whats the point of trying to build a character if the enemies that you want revenge on and can't wait to show how powerful youve become, never come back for a rematch?

I'm going to continue through the forums and find out if the character at least can carry on into the next new game you start. I would imagine that you could at least load your same character into a new game and continue building it, but I figured enemy re-spawn was a given too.

That and a horrible combat system that's severely broken are the main reasons I couldn't stick with gothic 3.

anyway thanks again to the OP.

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Originally Posted by SocietalNemesis
I created this account just so I could thank the OP for saving me some cash.

I was researching this game by browsing the forums, as I do every time Im considering a new game.

And thanks to this thread being so close to the top he has saved me a lot of time and some cash. I watched the trailers and game-play vids and thought this was so cool I need it.
Then I come here and a few posts in I find out that enemies do not re-spawn? I agree WTF! is that?

whats the point of trying to build a character if the enemies that you want revenge on and can't wait to show how powerful youve become, never come back for a rematch?

I'm going to continue through the forums and find out if the character at least can carry on into the next new game you start. I would imagine that you could at least load your same character into a new game and continue building it, but I figured enemy re-spawn was a given too.

That and a horrible combat system that's severely broken are the main reasons I couldn't stick with gothic 3.

anyway thanks again to the OP.


Awesome. Thanks for wasting your time and our time.


My Favorite RPGs: Divinity franchise, Gothic franchise (including Arcania, so I think I'm alone...), Venetica, Risen, Two Worlds II, The Witcher, Sacred franchise, Fallout franchise, Mass Effect 1, Alpha Protocol, Planescape: Torment, Drakensang, KOTOR 1 & 2, etc.
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Originally Posted by SocietalNemesis
I created this account just so I could thank the OP for saving me some cash.

I was researching this game by browsing the forums, as I do every time Im considering a new game.

And thanks to this thread being so close to the top he has saved me a lot of time and some cash. I watched the trailers and game-play vids and thought this was so cool I need it.
Then I come here and a few posts in I find out that enemies do not re-spawn? I agree WTF! is that?

whats the point of trying to build a character if the enemies that you want revenge on and can't wait to show how powerful youve become, never come back for a rematch?

I'm going to continue through the forums and find out if the character at least can carry on into the next new game you start. I would imagine that you could at least load your same character into a new game and continue building it, but I figured enemy re-spawn was a given too.

That and a horrible combat system that's severely broken are the main reasons I couldn't stick with gothic 3.

anyway thanks again to the OP.


Like i said to some others, i wouldn't rely too much on what other players say. If you're a little skeptical then rent it and see how you like it. It's a great game in my opinion (even though i despise the ending).

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First of all where I am its 2am , so pretty much anything I do when I get home from work this late is a waste of time, so no worries there.

Second of all to the poster that actually had something to add to the thread rather than his post count.

Im not going to rule it out yet, still taking a look at opinions on other features the game does have. From what Ive see of it, it would still be worth playing even knowing its ending may not be so good.
Though now that I know the ending may not be up to snuff, it may actually lessen the blow when/if I find out how it ends. Just seems like when ever you find that next GREAT game that could pull you in, its missing that 1 thing that you really like in a game. Then you find one that has that 1 thing and it missing all the supporting elements that it needs to make that 1 thing great lol

Just a little disappointed I guess, been a while since theres been what I consider a really good rpg style game, and for a minute it looked like I had found it. Definitely going to be one of those rent before buy kinda deals though.


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Well im a sucker when it comes to rpgs lol. When it comes to rpgs i just buy them and play them (good bad or ugly lol). This game, for me, i was mostly a time filler so i could pre-occupy myself until the games that i want real badly come out. It did serve it's purpose well smile. The game has some upswings like how many sidequests it has, which is alot (this would consume alot of your time in Div 2) and of course being a dragon, which was a nice feature.

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Originally Posted by SocietalNemesis
From what Ive see of it, it would still be worth playing even knowing its ending may not be so good.

I think it is more a case of people not liking the ending than the ending not being good (of course some people may mot like it and think it is not good). I know enough of the ending (because a few people don't know or care enough to use spoiler tags) to know why many people don't like it, but I'll have to finish the game to decide if it is a good ending, or not.

Raze #401483 15/01/10 10:33 AM
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Fact is: there are more people who DON'T like the ending than there are people who DO like the ending. I think that's even normal, as it is completely human to hope for good endings, to be winning.

That's what I think. We're not used to a 'bad ending'.

Last edited by Willlem; 15/01/10 10:34 AM.

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Raze #401486 15/01/10 10:45 AM
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For me it is not a waste of time... IF I enjoy a game (like D II or DD) I can play it for months!

And I know the ending (and I was disappointed on that moment) of D II, but I play it all over again!!
I give it more time, more chances! And be honest, I love the "female hero" much more! :hihi: Her moves are nicer and more fun to look at! Hmmmm ...

But the most important thing is:
I enjoy to play it And I take Divinity II - Ego Draconis like it IS!


Last edited by Joram; 15/01/10 10:47 AM.

On 7th of february 2015 : I start a new adventure in the Divinity world of Original Sin,
it's a Fantastic Freaking Fabulous Funny ... it's my All Time Favorite One !
Willlem #401488 15/01/10 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Willlem
Fact is: there are more people who DON'T like the ending than there are people who DO like the ending.

I wouldn't be so quick to judge based on only a very vocal minority on a forum.

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To use a very extreme position, role-playing games, in which the out-played role merely consists of killing enemies of any kind,

are to me rather war-playing games, than "role"-playing games.

In a recent theory I developed, the accent, the focus of a game might be a hint towards the culture of the people who are fond with it.

In a - that's how I call it - warrior-based culture, the focus of a game would NOT be diplomacvy, as diplomacy would be considered "weak" and "unstrong".

Such a culture would have the focus on the strength and the brute force of a warrior being able to kill enemies of any kind.

Originally Posted by SocietalNemesis
whats the point of trying to build a character if the enemies that you want revenge on and can't wait to show how powerful youve become, never come back for a rematch?


Action-RPGs of any kind do have the focus on killing. Killing is the ultimate solution of a conflicht the character has with any opposed character.

Killing also eleminated to need to negotiate; as negotiation would be considered "slow" and "energy-consuming" by those who believe that simple killing is "fast" and "swift" and doesn't need too much energy - and no thinking at all. Just good reflexes, and nothing but. All kind of thought goes into the process of finding weaknesses of the opposing characters and exploiting them.

From that standpoint, Action-RPGs might well be a mirror of our current culture. People prefer Action-movies, especially some of those where a warrior-type hero kills quite a lot of enemies to fulfull what he wants (there are almost never women doing that) like Rambo, for example.

The TV shows us in almost every show that violence is the method to solve conflicts people prefer - not some "slow, clumsy" negotiation.

Which is why hardcore Action-RPG players would - as I assume - absolutely HATE PS:T, because in PS:T, Wisdom and Talking is king !

In a warrior-culture, talking is nonsense, and killing and violence are considered as being "truthful" for a "real warrior".

That's why games based on riddle-solving like Advbenture games are not high in the reputation of Action-RPG players : They find it exhausting to think too much about simple "riddles". Destroying the source of the riddle would be a far better and a far quicker method.


Now, in our current culture, Action-RPG spread; other types of RPGs are not produced in the same quantity. It is Action-RPGs, which sell IN MASSES, and so it is Action-RPGs which money-greedy companies want to produce and make profits with.

These are the times when the masses speak, and they obviously don't want to use their brains, to put it cynically.


Last edited by AlrikFassbauer; 15/01/10 12:05 PM.

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alrik adventure games are mostly stupid cuz all ridlles are retardet . no one ever in real life thinks that piece of gum puted in to laser will make lasser blow up and open doors.
most of riddles in 99 % of adventure games are simply unreal and u cannot rly use your inteligence to solve them u need find out what creazy idea to solve that problem was guy who make game .. thre are of course adventure games that use real life logic like post mortem i rly love that game and most of riddles are from reeal life so u can use your real life knowledge to solve them .. pls try shizm or reah 2 most retardet adventure games ever i sit like2 hours and try to find out how to open gate nd wtf ? u need turn off 4 taps in freeking 4 diferent spots of city .. how the hell that works ?? i have no idea but this kind of riddles are in this 2 games , and in most of other adventure games. so not only action rpg players dislake adventure games


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In the past I play many adventuregames! The "Myst"-set I found very good, except the last one of that set... But Myst I and Riven (Myst II) I found the best of that set ...

But I play now almost only RPG because it has a much better replayability than adventures (they have not or a little bit - after years not playing them!).
Puzzlegames I play sometimes too, for me also addictive!

I love the puzzles set in Divinity II, but the most of them are for me easy. But it's well-balanced in D II .. its is an RPG, not a puzzlegame or adventure. But I'm happy I can use my brains and not only hack and slash!


On 7th of february 2015 : I start a new adventure in the Divinity world of Original Sin,
it's a Fantastic Freaking Fabulous Funny ... it's my All Time Favorite One !
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they could have made it accessable with the control panel, diffculty slider

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