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Originally Posted by marcusdavidus
alrik adventure games are mostly stupid cuz all ridlles are retardet


Well, maybe I play different adventure games than you do.

My favourite one is still Indy Jones and the Fate of Atlantis - everything is totally logical there.

Second : Monkey Island.

Third ... Well, maybe Simon the Sorcerer. Action-RPGs don't have many kjokes, but this one definitively has !

Keepsake has also become a favourite of mine - partly, because it comes with a function to solve everything your bran cannot solve.


To me,Action-RPGs are stupid and retarded. No-one would be able to run through such a mass of monsters like I've seen it in Sacred 1 and in Blizzard's D2. No-one would survive, if this was real.

And THEN you say that "most of riddles in 99 % of adventure games are simply unreal" ???
You say this, although RPGs aren't much more real either ? An arrow that splits itself, magically isn't very logical, imho. To battle your way through tons of monsters without your blade becoming worn-out and your armor battered isn't realistic either.

I rather battle with my BRAIN instead of my mouse-attached fingers.


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"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
Libertarian #403238 21/01/10 12:14 PM
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Now that we know that your number 2 favorite game is Monkey Island, please go play with the children

Shocker #403273 21/01/10 03:20 PM
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Me ??? As a 40-year old guy ? Are you insane ???

How old are you, by the way ?


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
Shocker #403288 21/01/10 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Shocker
Now that we know that your number 2 favorite game is Monkey Island, please go play with the children


Did you just insult Monkey Island? confused
If so, I think it's you who needs to go out for recess.


My Favorite RPGs: Divinity franchise, Gothic franchise (including Arcania, so I think I'm alone...), Venetica, Risen, Two Worlds II, The Witcher, Sacred franchise, Fallout franchise, Mass Effect 1, Alpha Protocol, Planescape: Torment, Drakensang, KOTOR 1 & 2, etc.
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Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer

In a - that's how I call it - warrior-based culture, the focus of a game would NOT be diplomacvy, as diplomacy would be considered "weak" and "unstrong".

Killing also eleminated to need to negotiate; as negotiation would be considered "slow" and "energy-consuming" by those who believe that simple killing is "fast" and "swift" and doesn't need too much energy - and no thinking at all. Just good reflexes.


I see your point, but I dont think that people appraise so much "warrior-based" culture. For example recent war in Iraq ignited big protestations over the world. Problem is that people are uneducated and dont care. They seek "big fun", easy money, no limits - so they dont respect anything. Diplomacy needs very different direction - inteligent and patient person able to learn, communicate with people rised from different cultures,, make own opinions based on facts (!!! - nowadays many people think shit based on primitive black/white logic and accept stupid "opinions" from mainstream media etc. - just like sheeps), respect your partner - if you are egoistic, nobody will listen to you and your diplomacy attempt will end in ruin. So "diplomacy" is too difficult and time-consuming for them. Simple-minded and egoistic person knows usually only easy methods like force, lies... And from that standpoint, ARPGs seems to mirror their needs - players can be superheroes (to please an ego), can have many items, gameplay is easy (silly) so it matches their level of thinking etc. (Note - ARPGs can be easy relax also for inteligent/older persons, so I'm not saying that ALL players are stupid)

Now they will beat me for this opinion smile .

But on the other hand - there are situations when "force" is better solution than "words". Not everyone is reasonable and will listen to words...

Farflame #403325 21/01/10 06:53 PM
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PROBLEMS:
NO RESPAWN IN SHOPS!!!
NO ENEMY RESPAWNS!!!
NO GRAPHIC ENGINE OPTIMIZATION!!!
NO BLOCK !!!
Everything ealse is PERFECT!!!.... JUST FIX THE ABOVE!!!

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Lack of enemy respawns is not a problem that needs fixing, it is a design choice. Same for active blocking. Merchant inventories do respawn; try leveling or completing a couple quests (perhaps a time based reset would help in situations where that is impractical).
Any graphics engine optimizations would be good, though.

Raze #403342 21/01/10 08:01 PM
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Holy crap...after reading the first page and realizing that most people had no idea what they are talking about (for instance relating respawns to mmorpgs is retarded, many rpgs have respawns ie the whole final fantasy series, the whole star ocean series, the fable games etc etc) I decided to just skip to the end. =) Now in this game respawns everywhere would have been horrible. However, I do think there should be some dungeons/side areas where mobs do respawn to give the game a higher replay value as for how it is, it has NO replay value whatsoever. One big thing that many people like about rpgs is that they are games you can keep going back to, however seeing as there are no respawns anywhere and after seeing the ending (I wont go into detail on this) I will never pick up this game again. I actually feel like I should be refunded for buying it. For anyone new, I would not advise buying this game at all as it is not a purchaser, but a renter. (For consoles, if you have pc wait until it drops to 10 bucks.)

TheRev #403346 21/01/10 08:18 PM
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In the game "Loki:Heroes of Mythology" you can choose between which type of game you want to begin OR continue. You can play it where the mobs remain dead as you progress through the game OR you can at from any save game, "re-set" the mobs and play the game either way you choose.

To be honest, with the sheer mob density I'm very glad that I can play through and they stay dead. That said, I think having the choice is a nice feature for an ARPG game to have.

Since I haven't been able to play D2 yet (hopefully soon) I'll have to wait and see...but I'm sure there was a design reason for this.

But the idea of certain locations that re-spawn sounds like an interesting idea wink

ps - I believe 2 Worlds works the same way, as in the mobs stay dead...well at least after you kill their astral spirits after you kill the the 1st time lol

Seems like ARPGs tend to have re-spawns and more conventional RPG games don't.

Regards


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Originally Posted by SheaOhmsford
Oblivion...no matter what path you choose, or is chosen for you, the game was designed to have a final battle. It's the nature of the game...

What you say may be true for the other games you list but it's not necessarily true for Oblivion. Oblivion does have a main quest and if one chooses to do that main quest it does have a final battle. But the player does not have to do the main quest.

In addition, all of Bethesda's games are designed to continue after the player has completed the main quest (if the player even chooses to do the main quest). I have been playing Oblivion pretty consistently since release and have only done the main quest once, on my first playthrough. I am planning to start another game within the next few weeks and when I do I don't plan to touch the main quest. There is plenty to do after - or instead of - the final battle.


PseronWyrd #404495 28/01/10 06:04 PM
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When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
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Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer

Bethesda & BioWare games will never receive scores under 9.0 from "professional" reviewers. They're backed by too large a money train for this.

virumor #404503 28/01/10 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by virumor
Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer

Bethesda & BioWare games will never receive scores under 9.0 from "professional" reviewers. They're backed by too large a money train for this.

Becaose they are good


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Raven.rpg #406178 14/02/10 08:35 AM
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Yeah, Bethesda and Bioware make the largest most memorable games in the genre smile

Count me among those that vastly prefer games without respawns, BTW. It was my main beef with Sacred 2: I got sooooo tired of killing those bloody kobolds!

As for whether a "real" RPG should have respawns or not, there's no answer to that. Some do, some don't. It's not a defining characteristic of the genre at all, certainly. It's like the inventory issue: does a suit of armor take up more inventory space than a potion, or not? Do you have fixed space, or a weight limit, or unlimited inventory? There are good games that do it each of these ways, and none of them are more or less RPGs than the others, though everybody has their preference. Personally I prefer an unilimited inventory, in which case size doesn't matter. I do understand the other points of view, though.

A game developer has a lot of decisions to make. The respawn thing is one of them. Every decision is gonna please some players and not others. If any one feature is absolutely critical to you as a player, it's your responsibility to find out ahead of time which games have it and only buy those *shrug*. If you don't do that, nobody to blame but yourself.

It's just ignorant to claim that it's a vital feature for an RPG, or for that matter that everybody ought to share your point of view about it. That shows not just your ignorance of the range of RPGs, but also your ignorance of game communities :p

And yes, I'm another of those who has been playing CRPGs as long as there WERE any... seen it all... so please don't try the "u noob" argument smile

Last edited by Srikandi; 14/02/10 08:37 AM.
Srikandi #406221 14/02/10 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Srikandi
Yeah, Bethesda and Bioware make the largest most memorable games in the genre smile

Count me among those that vastly prefer games without respawns, BTW. It was my main beef with Sacred 2: I got sooooo tired of killing those bloody kobolds!

As for whether a "real" RPG should have respawns or not, there's no answer to that. Some do, some don't. It's not a defining characteristic of the genre at all, certainly. It's like the inventory issue: does a suit of armor take up more inventory space than a potion, or not? Do you have fixed space, or a weight limit, or unlimited inventory? There are good games that do it each of these ways, and none of them are more or less RPGs than the others, though everybody has their preference. Personally I prefer an unilimited inventory, in which case size doesn't matter. I do understand the other points of view, though.

A game developer has a lot of decisions to make. The respawn thing is one of them. Every decision is gonna please some players and not others. If any one feature is absolutely critical to you as a player, it's your responsibility to find out ahead of time which games have it and only buy those *shrug*. If you don't do that, nobody to blame but yourself.

It's just ignorant to claim that it's a vital feature for an RPG, or for that matter that everybody ought to share your point of view about it. That shows not just your ignorance of the range of RPGs, but also your ignorance of game communities :p

And yes, I'm another of those who has been playing CRPGs as long as there WERE any... seen it all... so please don't try the "u noob" argument smile


you're definitly not a 'n00b'. Pleased to meet you, actually. Well spoken.

Now for respawning. It's indeed a choice. RPG's like Divinity II are about doing quests. That means that the player has to take on a quest, go looking around for the whereabouts of the quest-objective, and then locate the questgiver again. Some quests go beyond just these two, and involve 'intermediate' persons or quest-items. Having to kill the very same enemy twice or even more during a single quest, that's not the way to go IMHO.

The devs just have to make the game big enough, so that there are plenty of enemies to be slain :p


How will I laugh tomorrow, when I can't even smile today...
shadowdef #406686 18/02/10 10:48 PM
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This "respawn" problem was on Two worlds aswell, but with two worlds you could ACTUALLY go online and kill monsters on there with friends and they ACTUALLY respawned when you logged off and then back on.. this would be a great idea for this game but i guess we will have to wait and see what they do.

DamienGTi #406741 19/02/10 05:49 PM
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Respawning monsters hurts immersion for many players, including myself. Grinding is not fun, and whoever considers it fun should get his head checked.

There. I presented better arguments than op with no effort.

Keth #406743 19/02/10 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Keth
Respawning monsters hurts immersion for many players, including myself. Grinding is not fun, and whoever considers it fun should get his head checked.

There. I presented better arguments than op with no effort.


This. Nicely put. Short and to the point

shadowdef #406879 21/02/10 04:07 PM
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there is a place in the game where u can farm unlimitedly wink not so good exp/min but still u will have kinda big area where there is respawns which provide exp every time u kill them.


didnt read the whole thread so i dont know if this has been already said here or fixed in the game patch but it was there before patch atleast(havent been there after patched the game).

if u want to know where, ask me by email: leripe@gmail.com, since it devs may fix it if its announced here in upcoming patches. wink

Last edited by Too easy; 21/02/10 04:08 PM.
shadowdef #406945 22/02/10 04:46 PM
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I just couldnt resist answering the OP here.I actually dont have any Divinity series of games but im an RPGer since 1980 so yeah i qualify to give an opinion.Respawns a la MMO or diablo style are the realm of mindless grinding to achieve max level.I used to think MMOs were the future of gaming.LMAO!Yeah right.After 7 years of straight MMO play i can tell you this simply isnt the case.Ive gone back to RPGs because of the utter stupidity in most MMOs nowadays.Its refreshing to see story again.Its refreshing not to deal with-"WTF i pwned you noob!"LOL!Limited spawns that make sense,like random spawns while traveling from one area to another,are good for RPGs.Walking into an area to kill respawning rats or skeletons over and over and over...no thank you.
In conclusion i will be adding the divinity series to my shopping cart for the future.

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