Larian Studios Forums Divinity II The Dragon Knight Saga / Flames of Vengeance (English) Divinity II - Flames of Vengeance Status update

Surprisingly I find myself with some time today. I’m waiting to pick up a very talented man at the airport (check out his site www.beyondstructure.com), so I figured, what better use of idleness than to write a little update on the forum.

Quite a lot happened since last I gave a bit of a status update here: Divinity 2: Ego Draconis got released, and we’ve basically already completed Divinity 2: Flames of Vengeance already, so the last you can accuse me of, is being present here too much
One of the reasons I’m idle is that for once and for the moment, everything seems to be running smoothly. This is probably the first time that my team is so relaxed before a major release (which Flames of Vengeance is to us) and the reason is very simple: the game is actually ready.

Over the last couple of days I played it through, with a big book in my hand and a fresh pencil, ready to be merciless, but at the end of the ride, I hadn’t even filled a single page with things that drop-dead-needed-to-be-done-now-or-we-can’t-ship. I jotted down some things about legal lines, installer texts, middleware logos, but actual gameplay things, almost none. Compare that with the release of Divinity 2 where the day we shipped I had almost a book full of things that I still wanted to be done but couldn’t as the pressure to release was so high. Very big difference and quite a nice feeling actually. But still strange – never happened before. Maybe we’re actually learning after all this time how to do this.

I’m quite restrained when it comes to giving praise in general, much to the chagrin of my team I guess, but I was so happy that my list was so empty after finishing FOV, that it prompted me to write what for my doing is an extremely long praise post on our internal forum (our next-gen internal communication system featuring secrets so secret we’d be in deep trouble if some of it ever leaked out). It’d be awkward to post my entire post here as it would reek to much of self praise for my studio, but I’ll quote from it anyway because I’m pretty convinced you’ll soon discover for yourselves that I’m not proclaiming any #### here:

“Guys, I played through from beginning to end and wasn't bored for a second. On the contrary, I wanted to continue playing.It feels complete and while there were a few small glitches, it actually feels polished. It has a good mix of various styles of gameplay, looks really good, and surprises sufficiently to keep one interested. I enjoyed the writing and the acting, I enjoyed the combat and the puzzles, I enjoyed the variety in quests, I enjoyed the way everything was presented to me and I also very much enjoyed the sound - in short, I really enjoyed it. It was also very stable, except for a couple of known bugs that I'm sure we'll fix, and I didn't see anything engine wise that bothered me, as was the case last time I played part of it.”

For my doing, that’s actually pretty big. You’ll probably not find anybody in the team who can remember me ever writing something like this about any Divinity, so it means I was really quite content. Usually, I had a feeling of “if only we’d have had time to do this and that”. I actually never understood that people liked so much, because I shipped it with plenty of regrets. Perhaps it’s because I’m getting older, who knows.

It’s no secret that a lot of people thought the first part of was the best part (me included), and when we started working on FOV, the goal was to capture that same feeling, and I’m quite happy to say that I think the team managed this. I hope all of you will agree when you get to play it. Having seen what the Divinity engine can do now in Flames of Vengeance, I regret that the values present in FOV weren’t present throughout the original game, because that would’ve made a big difference I think to the nay-sayers. These caused quite a lot of frustration on our side, given how long we worked on , but of course, they did have a point about certain things.

I’m not going to say FOV is perfect, but to me it beats most RPGs I’ve had the occasion to play recently, so the thing I’m contemplating now, is how to communicate this to the world, especially to those players who didn’t play yet. Together with FOV, I think really is one huge RPG which offers you an RPG experience unlike any other, and as a studio it’s in our interest to make sure players everywhere are aware of this. Anybody here with clever suggestions is more than invited to write them down, as we could use some inspiration to increase awareness.

Anyways, I have to go, but I realized I didn’t manage to write down yet what I really wanted to say, so I hope I’ll find time soon enough to write a follow-up post to this.

Cheers

I really appreciate the insights into one of my favourite games of all time. I will definitely do my part to recommend the game to anyone who is even remotely interested in RPG's. I hope the xbox version of FoV is not canned though.

Thanks for the heads-up Lar_q. Very pleased on the time you are spending with the fans in the forums!


Well, sugestions... well, probably stuff you can't control yourself and will be more aimed at your publisher but puting up a pack with div2+FOV+"most-recent-div2-engine-eyecandy-patch" at a reasonable price (around €40-45 in steam?) at the same time as releasing FOV alone would bring up some review sites to actualy go back and review DIV2 with the new engine, as it would included in the FOV pack and review it as a whole and give pretty good scores.

The aim would be to look at FOV not as an expantion, but as a part of a refined DIV2, a pack.

As i said, i loved Div2 but there was some bugs/graphics limitations in the starting versions that kinda made some reviews go down, and we all know that metacritic scores go a long way to sales charts.

Having a good pack in steam, coupled with some good metacritic scores and a decent price should be all you need to get the word out to the world.


I also strongly sugest investing in some publicity in sites like RPGwatch.com. Releasing a good xbox version can't hurt sales either :P


All in all, i'm realy anxious to play the game, only problem is that i dont realy know if i will start from level 1 vanilla Div2 with new engine, or go straight to FOV. ah ah ah.

Best Lar_q and team of Larian Studios,

I love to read this post!

So I can read, the Larian Team learned very much from making Divinity II Ego Draconis: working hard and with 'pressure' on Divinity II ... now they take the benefits to make Flames of Vengeance even faster and better


I can't wait to play the whole story ...
... in one time : Ego Draconis + Flames of Vengeance

BAH!! How DARE you be idle, Mr. Lar_q?! You need to start working on the NEXT xpac since this one is ready!

!!!BACK TO THE SALT MINES WITH YOU!!!

Hehe. Just kidding Hope everyone involved has a chance to kick back, relax and enjoy a well-deserved adult beverage of choice. Thanks for the status update, it's always nice to have a dialog with the developers going.

The release date can't arrive soon enough!

Glad its done.
Seems like the teams worked really hard on it.
I'm really interested to play it hopefully you can get the x360 distribution issue sorted I and others would be so grateful!
Hope you keep us updated

Nice effort ! Congratulations to the whole team !

And since you wanted to have some "clever suggestions" :

I could imagine a similar thing for Rivellon like I've heard about for Gothic 3 : In Gothic 3, a land has been invaded, and one must free it, regin control, and apart from the factions thing it is (to me, at least) just a game about freeing a land from occupation, slowly, ton by town.

That's something I could imagine for Rivellon as well. Literally travelling from town to town, helping people to free the land from occupation, town after town, as slow as it might be, but with increasing possibilities (for example better flowing markets the more towns are freed + connected together -> transport of wares (simple protecting tasks) and managing through honest and shady people with different intentions. And through woods, of course.


A different thing I thought about yesterday or so was a thing similar to Beyod Divinity : in Beyond Divinity, two persons were working together. Forced together, no matter, why.

I don't know whether this is feasible for the engine, but I could imagine a couple like that - Rhode plus the Dragon Knight, the hero of Divinity 2.

This could imho be interesting, not only, because it would be a "real" (forced ?) couple, but also because this could be an interesting basis for witty remarks. Rhoda, one of the greatest Dragon-hunters, must work together with ... a Dragon Knight ? The kin she was chasing and hunting for so long ?
Plus, I could imagine remarks like in Shakespeare's "Much ado about nothing" (I recomment the movie with/by Kenneth Branagh !).

Just as an idea.

Thank you for your post Lar_q.
You and your team did a great job on Divinity 2, you fellas did the best you could, though felt like you wanted to do more, but it still, the end result turned out to be not so bad, and now, you say you`ve done everything there is to do, how can it go wrong?

***
I agree to KnightPT`s idea about selling the two games as a pack, if you don`t mind me saying, it`s a similar story to Diablo 2(not story wise, i meant what Blizzard did). First came out the original game, then they released the D2 LoD Expansion as a set with both games in one. This is the same thing.

***
As for ideas, well, what i`d like to see is the old Divine Divinity theme and style back. Meaning, i missed the Elves, i missed the Dwarfs, i missed, i never thought i`d say this, orcs. Not to mention the old locations like Verdistis, the Farmlands, Dark Forest, heck, Blue Boar Inn! I want it all back in the new game-to-come. As you might have guessed by now, i liked Divine Divinity by far more than i liked Divinity 2, but that`s basically just because i missed all the things i mentioned above. It`s old gen, so what? Just imagine what you`d create with everything you`ve accomplished, created and invented so far when put together.
One more thing, i`d suggest is that you study other RPG games. So far DD and D2, i haven`t played BD, both are almost based on quests with one final result and almost no real consequence to players choice. Think about deepening the quests a little more, i`m talking about side quests, i think they`re already interesting as it is, but just what would become of them with a consequential choice, that affects the storyline a little bit? Make use of the Reputation system you introduced us to in Divine Divinity. That`s just an idea however.

I wish you luck Larian team, Lar_q and everyone else involved, on everything that there is to come from your studio.

I agree. I wopuld like to see variety in races as well.

That was actually a hing I found unique in Divinity 1 : That races that are often/normally portrayed as foes in a lot of games must work together. Like Orcs & Elves, for example.

And the Lizard race was something I hadn't seen in games until then. (Similar to the Imps, too).

thanks for the update will this expansion require any drastic hardware upgrades?

How about updating the D2:ED demo with the updated graphics and game engine features? That way everyone can experience the new version of the game engine without any money being put down.

I'm really shocked at you having regrets with DD other than it being called Divine Divinity instead of Divinity: Sword of Lies. Games like that could make libraries go out of business!

Also, one thing that I've come to enjoy from this company are the forum posts such as this.

i have to agree with you having devs respond to fans means a lot most companys dont and its why i respect larian so much

will this expansion require any drastic hardware upgrades?

It is the same game engine, just with additional optimizations and fixes, etc. I would think Larian was much more interested in getting it running better on lower end systems than they were with adding extra eye candy or features that would increase the minimum requirements.

Thank you for your post, Lar_q and good luck for the future.


That's an excellent idea. I loved the banter between the Dragon Knight & Talana in Div 2, this could even take it a step further (similar to say, the Prince of Persia & Farah in Sands of Time).

This is something I have been wanting to ask for sometime now. Has Ygerna been posing as Talana all along?

I was under the impression that Ygerna took possession of you when you got "stepped on" during your introductory flight.

Lar_q and the rest of the Larian team:

Thanks for the update and for paying so much attention to not just paid reviewers/critics, but to your game players/fans.

It's safe to quote "work is never finished," whether is simple dishes and laundry or a #1 New York Times best-seller novel, or a fantastically complex and involved game like the Divinity series. While the dev team has received criticism, it's a part of the process of making something better and becoming better as a person/team/company. Unlike many companies, Larian pays attention to what is really important-- the fan base, who will buy the game and play it, recommend it to and/or purchase it for their families and friends. Too many companies worry about "the bottom line," not realizing 'money' is phantom. To find a company, a team of individuals, who genuinely care about their fan base. . . well, nothing beats a dedicated "following."

All that said, not only will I be purchasing FoV, but will likely get a set for hubby as well, since we each have our own computers and I'm not likely to give up D2:ED just so he can have a turn. I will more than happily recommend it to my gaming friends (and have already done so). I went to the expense of purchasing an extra copy (legally!) of Divinity because hubby and I kept "fighting" over playing it! I suppose that's what happens when there are two adult gamers in a family. . . and both of our children are little gamers, as well! They both want to play the Divinity series, so we may wind up with several copies of the game (all legally, mind you-- I'm a stickler for following the law!).

Clever ideas? I don't know that I ever have anything particularly "clever". . . but I'll give it a shot. Make sure D2:EG and FoV is mentioned not only in the forums (there's quite the buzz here already), but that it's mentioned in "social networking sites" like facebook, myspace, and others. As Larian has done before, ask the players and fans to write reviews! Most of us, I think, would be happy to jot a bit down-- which could be posted in the forums, as "Notes" in facebook, as part of myspace blogs, in other online blogs, et cetera. Utilizing key search terms could also prove beneficial in 'getting the word out' about the Divinity series (I suggest terms that I happen to search for, such as "rpg," "fantasy," "gaming,"). Perhaps Kirill Pokrovsky would be willing to post links to the game sites from his webpage?

I suppose when it comes to us fans, the hardcore fans (maybe I'm in that category), use us and abuse us! I mean. . . utilize us. We will spread the word and talk up a great game, especially if it's one that's truly "ready to roll."

I'm guessing it might cost money, and I don't know if it would even be feasible, but what about using DVD "trailers" to advertise the game? There are some movies for which I've seen game "trailers," and that does, admittedly, pique my interest.

Wishing you and all the Larian team a well deserved relaxing time and much praise for your hard, dedicated and wonderful work!

All best,

~~CierraShore
p.s.
When are you going to come out with more games like the Divinity series??????

Dear cierraShore,

First, I'm sure you ARE a hardcore fan

Second: the tips you give to Larian, they did already something like going on Twitter, Netlog, Wiki, Facebook ... but maybe there are still more possibilities ... ?

All the best for everyone here
Joram

Hy, i will give a little tips about what bothered me at DD 2, is about transforming in dragon form well i enjoyed jumping from a cliff and then puff dragon form but, there is a but because the transformation is not that quake the delay is what bugs me and one more think is you pressed forward and then transform you have to press it again to go forward in dragon form all what i`m saying is that the game needs to flow smooth.

Hey, thanks for all the support everybody. Cierrashort, I was visibly smiling when I read your post, which got me strange looks from my neighbor (I'm sitting on a train which has a technological miracle on board - train wifi - so that gives me the opportunity to continue my post)
I think community reviews on various boards would definitely help us - but of course, you'd have to be able to play the game first. The only one on this board who has played a version is actually Alrik, who helped us out with some localization testing, and that was on an earlier version than the one I'd played. Nonetheless, it'd actually be kinda cool to see hear what he thought - how about it Alrik ?
My train ride was instrumental in bring Divinity 2 to as many people as possible, as it involved a publisher for the game, and I was happy to see that their testing department shared my opinion about Flames of Vengeance.
I’d like to explain why I was so joyful after playing Flames of Vengeance, because ordinarily, it should be what I expect. To understand, I have to give you some history, more specifically, the parts that went wrong and why there was some bad stuff in there:
When we started out with the game, we had very big ambitions, and we were probably a bit over-ambituous for the means we had. This was to be our first real "next-gen" project and we immediately wanted to make a game where you could turn into a dragon at almost any point in the game, and we immediately wanted to bring it to console too, though the only experience we had was with PC games.On top of that, this was all to be done in a new engine. And… wer were going to do all of this with a fraction of the team that made Oblivion. In hindsight, that could've been a recipe for disaster, and it nearly was.
The major problems we had were dominantly technical, but there were also quite some process isues involved. Never before had we made a game where the assets where so complex, and the pipelines for getting something in game so long. Since the technology for putting it all together only came together at the end, it also took a very long time for us to get a real feeling for the game, and as a result we made many bad decisions.
Larian has always been a company that needed iteration to be able to deliver something compelling, and here we were faced with a process where iteration was turning out to be very difficult and in several cases, almost impossible. That forced us to re-invent ourselves multiple times, and that wasn’t good for the creative process. On top of that, the technical issues, especially the dreaded TRC’s on Xbox360 which is a list of requirements you need to meet to be able to publish on 360, drained most of our coding potential towards solving those issues, leaving little room for experimentation and iteration which is what usually leads to the coolest gameplay.
I often had pity with the artists and designers who had to deliver an enormous amount of content, using an incomplete toolset and an often failing engine. Not that you could blame the coders, they just had an enormous amount of work, building and maintaining not only the toolset but also the actual game and actually figuring out how to do everything that was required of them with the limited resources at their disposal. On top of that, they had to deal with quite a few setbacks, several of them not their fault, such as failing middleware or changing specifications. That they ultimately pulled it off is to their credit, and I can safely say that without some heroic development efforts in the last year before release, the game wouldn’t have made it. Take this against the background of a games industry in crisis, which created quite some stress among our publishing and distribution partners, and you can imagine the circumstances in which finished .
The long development pipelines, together with the technical difficulties, ultimately impacted design and we were forced to take several shortcuts, something which you, the players, inevitably felt while playing the game, and something for which I’m truly sorry, no matter what the attenuating circumstances.
Luckily, we got the chance to make FOV, which was originally called Flames of Retribution, referring to the fact that we saw this as our chance to set things right. There was an attitude in the studio that if we couldn’t get this one right, then we had no business making RPGs anymore, and it was something which was in the back of my mind all the time during development. That’s why when I finally got the chance to play FOV with everything integrated, and I found myself sitting all alone in the office late at night, still playing the thing, having started early in the morning, a big smile materialized – yes.
My train arrived – I gotta go