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I dont want to make assumptions or accusations of "dumbing down" but does that really mean its going to make the game easier? Im actually not bothered by that, but if it means rebalanced to be harder, then Im skipping DKS.

I dont pay people to masochistically torture me, I'll take the easier combat so I can enjoy the story more.

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I believe it means a little easier in the beginning, and a little harder towards the end (where you can simply not take any damage from many opponents if you are a few levels higher). Adjusting the strong level dependence of combat is at least part of the rebalancing.
The easy difficulty mode is being changed to a casual mode, where opponents are still easier, and at least an escort mission in FoV is given greater health/time restrictions. Presumably there could be greater time limits in a couple other situations, or sinking platforms could get fixed in place, etc.

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The system where you do extra damage to enemies lower level and take less damage from enemies of a lower level (and the opposite for enemies at a higher level) makes for a strange difficulty curve.

The game is pretty hard between levels 7-10.

Orobas Fjords has a ton of enemies, but you gain experience so fast that soon there's not much which can threaten you. At level 21, walking from Champion Harbour to the fork in the road gives you an entire level, and clearing out the rest of the road, from High Hall to the Mine gives you just about two more levels.

The Flying Fortresses are also a problem because there are 4 of them, they have enemies between levels 26-29, and doing just one of them should get you from 26 to 28 or 29, making the remaining fortresses too easy.

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Theres no such thing as too easy, there are alot of factors involved such as player skill and desire for immersion and following the storyline, I dont think anyone has the right to really say someone should play the game the same way as someone else.

But then I think people who are obsessed with Challenge to be guys trying to prove their manhood using games.

Thanks to all for answering though, this Reba lance sounds like it might be good for all players enjoyment and not just Hardcores.

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Originally Posted by VampLena
Theres no such thing as too easy, there are alot of factors involved such as player skill and desire for immersion and following the storyline, I dont think anyone has the right to really say someone should play the game the same way as someone else.


Taking literally zero damage from enemies 5 levels lower than you is too easy. That's not exaggerating at all, enemies 5 levels lower than you can't hurt you at all. If that's not such a thing as "too easy", I don't know what is.

But the worst part is that taking 0 damage is BORING.


Amdusias is such a hard boss with his use of Explosive Arrow, that you pretty much need access to your own level 15 spells to be able to fight him, and there are several fights after that on Sentinel island which are also hard at the appropriate level 16-18, especially the tight-quarters fight when retrieving Sassan's ring. Those are pretty challenging, the assault on the tower and boss battles which follow are challenging.

But in Orobas Fjords and beyond, the enemy level spread is too narrow to keep things challenging, and you'll almost certainly out-level your average enemy by 5 or more levels if you do most of the content, and then you'll have a lot of enemies which are unable to hurt you at all. That's what the "too easy" complaint is.

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Originally Posted by Stabbey
Originally Posted by VampLena
Theres no such thing as too easy, there are alot of factors involved such as player skill and desire for immersion and following the storyline, I dont think anyone has the right to really say someone should play the game the same way as someone else.


Taking literally zero damage from enemies 5 levels lower than you is too easy. That's not exaggerating at all, enemies 5 levels lower than you can't hurt you at all. If that's not such a thing as "too easy", I don't know what is.

But the worst part is that taking 0 damage is BORING.


Amdusias is such a hard boss with his use of Explosive Arrow, that you pretty much need access to your own level 15 spells to be able to fight him, and there are several fights after that on Sentinel island which are also hard at the appropriate level 16-18, especially the tight-quarters fight when retrieving Sassan's ring. Those are pretty challenging, the assault on the tower and boss battles which follow are challenging.

But in Orobas Fjords and beyond, the enemy level spread is too narrow to keep things challenging, and you'll almost certainly out-level your average enemy by 5 or more levels if you do most of the content, and then you'll have a lot of enemies which are unable to hurt you at all. That's what the "too easy" complaint is.


Again, see your generalizing. Its Boring to YOU. Maybe your not open minded but you should allow for the fact some people dont find that type of play enjoyable. I mean look at popular Cheat websites are like Gamefaqs.com or Cheathappens.com. They are pretty widely used for game cheats. I mean of course your welcome to your opinion but it is pretty arrogant to assume because you feel Challenge is fun and good, that its the only valid view point.

Casual gaming is popular these days for the simple fact alot of people dont see games as some sort of competitive sport, they see it as a form of entertainment.

I guess in the end, it doesnt matter if in some areas DKS is harder or not because at least on the PC people will just use Cheats to overcome it.

Last edited by VampLena; 12/10/10 04:21 AM.
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He didn't say wanting a challenge is the only valid view point, he said complete lack of challenge is boring. That may not be a universal opinion, but I'd guess most RPG players would want at least some challenge.

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Originally Posted by Raze

He didn't say wanting a challenge is the only valid view point, he said complete lack of challenge is boring. That may not be a universal opinion, but I'd guess most RPG players would want at least some challenge.


If it where true that RPGers like alot of challenge, I doubt games like Wow, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Mass Effect and 2 etc would be as widely popular and best selling as they are now. They are amongst the most easiest games ever made.

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I fully understand VampLena you wish to play an RPG just for entertainment. That's for sur okay wink

Do you know I enjoy always a good RPG, even it is a real challenge? For me such a hardcore RPG is also great entertainment for me !!

I always begin each RPG on "easy" difficulty and honestly, the first time I begin to play Ego Draconis on easy, I find it realy difficult and die many times ! Also the time-based puzzles I must have enough courage and patient to succeed those time-based platformpuzzles! Some of them I play a whole half day trying to solve such a puzzle !! (okay, I HAVE much patient and I know not everybody have so much (?) wink )

After awhile playing Ego Draconis (on Xbox) on easy the game became too easy (like Stabbey said) and also on "hard" too easy at the end of the game (after level 21 or 24)... Killing Laiken in the Battle Tower was for me on hard too easy .... only some Black Rings where for me very difficult....

I enjoy the story AND love to have a great challenge (hardcore too!) AND all is for sure still
Great Entertainment for me ! wink
SO you see : all people experienced 1 game on a sooo different way like you said already !!

Note:
I love to have a great hard challenge only because it gives me a more thrilling experience and also let me "realy sinking into the RPG world" because of playing a RPg "hardcore" and I love that so much !! wink

I have full confidence Larian makes the Massive Rebalance in a very good way for ALL kind of players : those like you and more ... and those like Stabbey, me and more ...

claphands for Larian who listen to their forum-members and did this "Massive Rebalance"


wave


On 7th of february 2015 : I start a new adventure in the Divinity world of Original Sin,
it's a Fantastic Freaking Fabulous Funny ... it's my All Time Favorite One !
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Also you'll be happy to know we've added a bit more 'air-control' to the jump so you can control it better. It makes those trickier platforming sections a bit easier smile

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Originally Posted by Greever
Also you'll be happy to know we've added a bit more 'air-control' to the jump so you can control it better. It makes those trickier platforming sections a bit easier smile


Very great news laugh !!

I know the Larian Team do it again ! smile


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it's a Fantastic Freaking Fabulous Funny ... it's my All Time Favorite One !
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Originally Posted by Greever
Also you'll be happy to know we've added a bit more 'air-control' to the jump so you can control it better. It makes those trickier platforming sections a bit easier smile


Yay! The physics of jumping in ED were a bit odd. If you do a running leap from a cliff, after a certain point your forward momentum goes abruptly to zero and you go from falling in a curve to plummeting straight down, which actually made cliff jumping to transform into a dragon harder than it should be.

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If rebalanced means that the level-based damage will be taken out, all is good.

I would not like it if the mage & ranged skills are nerfed, though... because those made it possible for a character to beat even much higher leveled opponents, which was completely impossible with melee.

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I'm probably going to sound like VampLena with this, but I can't see how you guys find normal/hard mode too easy, especially at the end.

The final fight kicks your butt regardless of what difficulty you're on, I've noticed. Is that too easy? Should they all one shot you regardless of your level?

And with regular fighting/"boss" fights, those are too easy? Do you really think it would be fun to run into a group of two enemies and die a hundred times until you find the perfect strategy to beat them, then repeat those steps on each and every other enemy spawn in the game? Dunno about you all, but that doesn't sound fun to me.

The difficulty is fine to me. You need to upgrade your potions every few levels in order to keep up with the increase in HP/damage. Being one shotted unless you know exactly where to stand, when to attack, when to dodge, and one little misclick/mistake gets you killed is not fun, it's annoying.

Games like these need a mixture of normal difficulty, which I guess you guys call "mindless button mashing" and harder boss fights. You can not make the whole game super insanely difficult or 90% of the player base quits out of frustration. It's a shame this game doesn't allow mods, because that way the people who want insane challenges (and what is an insane challenge anyway, when after you die a hundred times you get the hang of it and it becomes "too easy"?) can mod scary nightmare modes into the game where you die in one hit regardless of unavoidable magic/projectile weapons.

Just my 2cents. I like the difficulty the way it is...The only thing I'd change is the final battle and make it more manageable than "Hope you have a ton of greater restoration potions you can spam"

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On level 36, normal difficulty, I found the final fight to be a little easy. I certainly couldn't stand still at the beginning and expect to live long, and couldn't let myself get surrounded and fight the Divine and 3 or 4 paladins at the same time indefinitely, but once into the main room with my creature summoned it was relatively easy to clear out the rangers/paladins first and then take out the Divine and Zandalor.

However, entering the Hall of Echoes I could literally fly into a group of a dozen Memory Eaters and sit still while they attacked, having a commander occasionally cast Fire Sphere to set me on fire, and not take any damage at all. In the arena I fought the Memory Eaters and summons first to maximize loot (not that I needed it or got anything good), and then took out the main opponent(s) for each round, with little chance of taking much damage, unless I got careless.


How does a complaint that having a lot of common opponents with zero chance of doing any damage making combat boring translate to a desire to have to fight every opponent repeatedly until you are lucky enough to survive or find its one weakness?
I did go after opponents a higher level than me a few times, and did have to reload and adjust my strategy, either just to try to take them out early, or because they were the only opponent left in an area and I figured it was better to try a few times than to have to come back for them later. Nobody is advocating that be the norm for combat, though.

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Originally Posted by Eliirae
I'm probably going to sound like VampLena with this, but I can't see how you guys find normal/hard mode too easy, especially at the end.

The final fight kicks your butt regardless of what difficulty you're on, I've noticed. Is that too easy? Should they all one shot you regardless of your level?


Yes, the final fight is hard no matter what level you're at. I was level 36 or 37 when I went in and found that pretty tricky. But the problem is that if you explore a lot and do as much as you can, for a long time, everything UNTIL the final fight is too easy, including the arena fights right before the final fight.

Quote
And with regular fighting/"boss" fights, those are too easy? Do you really think it would be fun to run into a group of two enemies and die a hundred times until you find the perfect strategy to beat them, then repeat those steps on each and every other enemy spawn in the game? Dunno about you all, but that doesn't sound fun to me.


The problem is that in Ego Draconis, the difficulty of the combat varies a HUGE amount depending on the difference between your level and the enemy level. Enemies 4 levels or more above are very hard and dangerous. Enemies plus or minus 3 levels of you level are challenging, and enemies 4 levels or more below your level are totally non-threatening.

I would be happy if the damage enemies can do do you is capped at the damage they do for enemies 2-3 levels below the player level. But enemies 4 levels below the player level do scratch damage, and 5 levels below do no damage at all.

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Originally Posted by Raze

On level 36, normal difficulty, I found the final fight to be a little easy. I certainly couldn't stand still at the beginning and expect to live long, and couldn't let myself get surrounded and fight the Divine and 3 or 4 paladins at the same time indefinitely, but once into the main room with my creature summoned it was relatively easy to clear out the rangers/paladins first and then take out the Divine and Zandalor.


Yeah, of course you would, because you're 4 levels above what's expected.

Quote
The problem is that in Ego Draconis, the difficulty of the combat varies a HUGE amount depending on the difference between your level and the enemy level. Enemies 4 levels or more above are very hard and dangerous. Enemies plus or minus 3 levels of you level are challenging, and enemies 4 levels or more below your level are totally non-threatening.

I would be happy if the damage enemies can do do you is capped at the damage they do for enemies 2-3 levels below the player level. But enemies 4 levels below the player level do scratch damage, and 5 levels below do no damage at all.


Well the thing about the level scaling: In the beginning of the game when you only have 1-2 merchants that will sell you a limited amount of healing potions, you NEED that level scaling. Enemies the same level as you in mobs (which is common) will eat up countless potions, and you need to conserve every last one until you get to a higher level. Later on in the battle tower when you can make unlimited I Win healing potions, level scaling isn't really needed, but it's not likely that Larian would be able to put in two separate combat systems in the same game.

Last edited by Eliirae; 13/10/10 12:06 AM.
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Other than doing some of the start of the fjords before heading to Sentinel Island and delaying turning in some of the quests in the fjords, I didn't do anything special to try to level. The game shouldn't be balanced so that you become untouchable for parts of the game if you simply explore everywhere and do all the side quests, and getting to 2 levels above the final bosses shouldn't be that unexpected.
I stopped assigning stat points (to keep things interesting) and ended up with 39 unused points, but with the strong level dependence of combat it wouldn't be as easy to handicap yourself as in other games that become easy (ie remove or use lower level equipment, etc). That said I did get my fair share of challenge earlier in the game, so having some of the human sections become quite easy wasn't a big deal for a first play through, IMO. The moderate difficulty of a few boss fights and some of the dragon sections of the flying fortresses kept things from getting too monotonous.


There were a few topics about the lack of potions in the game, so I tried to conserve them, and use food instead at the very beginning of the game, etc. However, I found plenty of potions from loot, and did not need to purchase any. The only time I ever started using a lot of potions was when I tried entering an area with higher level opponents, which could be avoided by trying another area or quest first.

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My problem is only with people who obsess over very difficulty gameplay and out of some sense of "I play the game on this difficulty so everyone else should suffer too" mentality. If its fun for you its fun for you but I dont see what the big deal is with having Easy, be actually easy for people who just want to enjoy the game from a entertainment standpoint and people who love challenge and play on Very hard enjoying it for their adrenaline rush or whatever.

Often times hardcores complain too much about people wanting Easy to be easier, and it is quite annoying, what I do in my game doesnt affect anyone else. Im glad to see some of you understand that there is a very fine line between challenging but satisfying and difficulty and rip your hair out frustrating, its a shame some people dont understand that, but with this Rebalance, Im hoping Larian understands.

Last edited by VampLena; 13/10/10 04:34 AM.
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hug for everyone who die hundred of times in Ego Draconis ...
I'm sure Larian make a really good Massiv Reballance so the final battle will become more easy fore people who didn't like hard battles ...

Hope Larian make the three different levels of difficulty (easy, normal, hard) much more different because I play first on easy and later on normal and hard, but didn't experienced a significant high difference between easy and normal/hard, seriously.

First time I play and become around level 21/25 I though I make my hero too strong (I always search for the best equipment I like in a RPG, my "fever") and so the enemies couldn't hurd me anymore.... But later I read and discovered I was wrong! frown

So I think, now the Dragon Knight Saga has the Massiv Rebalance, it is much moooooore important to have a strong good equipment (for protection etc) ...
So gamers who have the "fever" to have the best gear he/she wants and have the patient to invest time in this RPG element, it is more worth the effort smile On that way our hero can stand enemies from a few levels above him and also bosses and the finale battle!

But I have the confidence Larian make it ! smile






On 7th of february 2015 : I start a new adventure in the Divinity world of Original Sin,
it's a Fantastic Freaking Fabulous Funny ... it's my All Time Favorite One !
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