Larian Studios Forums Divinity II The Dragon Knight Saga / Flames of Vengeance (English) Technical problems SecuROM on the Steam version...what the hell!

I suppose my own opinion is that people are basically honest except for those who aren't. Which isn't such a clever-arse comment as it might sound: the point is that the sort of people who make copies are highly unlikely to buy a legit copy anyway so it's not a lost sale; the sort of people who are likely to buy a copy anyway are unlikely to settle for an illicit version because that's what they do.

You will get a few waverers who might settle for an illicit copy if they think that they can get away with it but I suspect that education is a more effective means than force, whereas people who've "done the right thing" and been penalised may be more inclined to take an alternative route in future.

I'm not sure it's possible to even estimate the percentages in question since the argument has been dragged this way and that by various interested groups so I can only go on my personal opinions and experiences of those I know: which is that the above pretty much applies. In short, intrusive DRM does more harm than good since those who won't pay will continue to not pay but those who paid willingly will become less willing if they have a bad experience. And those bad experiences are the antithesis of user education since it gives doing the wrong thing a sort of legitimacy.

I can say that what will incite me to buy are nice odds and sods in collector's edition type packages that you won't get by simply pirating the game, such as maps, art-books and assorted other odds and ends. I think it's important for these things to be some sort of tangible goods rather than a digital add-on as there's always the temptation to pull an EA and make the "added extras" content that were actually cut from the game, which tends to be a bit of a PR gaffe when discovered.

Anyway, just my personal thoughts (and rather rambling ones at that!) on the subject.

Thank you for taking the time to reply to the topic of this thread in person.

My personal suggestion for an alternative to SecuROM would be for all retail DVD copies of the game to be tied to Steam, pretty much like recent releases such as CoD:Black Ops and Fallout:New Vegas. Steam itself is a form of DRM and you are already selling digital copies of "Dragon Knight Saga" through Steam, but with SecuROM embedded as well.

If you did this, I would buy your game, as I have had nowhere near the number of problems with Steam DRM, as I have had with that destructive malware crap SecuROM!

Precisely!

Reward paying customers with a nice book of lore that they can read, a cloth map or a little figurine. Don't punish them by putting malware in your game that destroys their computer! It's not exactly rocket science is it?

Ugh, no. I think that would ruffle quite a few feathers as there's no benefit for Larian to do so. They've not added DLC (Beyond armour packs on Xbox Live, I believe), there's no multiplayer and they'd not be taking advantage of Steam.

Impulse, sure, I'll go with that as content management, but Steam? I don't really see the point.

To be honest, as long as it's not SecuCRAP, I'm not bothered what DRM solution they use, as long as it works (-I mean works in terms of calming the suits, as we all know that DRM is no deterrent to determined hackers-) and doesn't shaft my PC.

SecuROM isn't bad, though. It's one of the "better" forms out there, and I'll honestly say the only time I remember it giving me hassle was with DarkStar One when it decided that the disc wasn't in the drive even though I'd literally just finished installing it.

You'll find horror stories with all forms of DRM - Steam, Impulse, SecuROM, TAGES, Starforce, UbiSuck's lovely system and so forth. There's no "good" DRM, and thankfully most "bad" DRM doesn't exist any more.

Edit: That said, I don't see why publishers attach DRM to digital versions that require clients, such as Steam. Seems a bit pointless, truth be told.

It's bad enough: it's annoying being forced to reboot your computer if you've used Process Explorer or various other forms of innocuous software (which also makes me wonder what they're trying to hide, but that's another matter) and it has caused problems with me accessing my DVD drive in the past. The limited activations present in some implementations is also something that concerns me.

Even if these things aren't immediate problems, they're still potential risks, and as something that really serves no useful purpose, it shouldn't be there. Obviously I can only speak for myself and if others don't have a problem with it then that's their business, but it does discourage me from buying games encumbered with it. Almost put me off buying FoV and it has successfully put me off buying other titles.

I disagree. There are far worse alternatives and implementations of DRM out there. At least with Securom and Div2 you will get an activation back if you uninstall. I just bought Risen, that has Tages DRM. Guess what? You get three activations and that's it. If you use them up, you must go and beg for more activations from the publisher.

FEATHERS RUFFLED

NO TO STEAM

Thankyou very much, as highly as I rate Larian, if they made their games to require Steam then they loose a customer.

And I wouldn't be the only one.

Steams customer service is that diabolical that if they were based in the UK I would have payed them a visit and kicked their damned doors down, they still owe me money though I know I can kiss it goodbye.

Use Steam by all means, but not only, leave gamers to make their own choice as to which DRM they prefer.

Bethesda dropped the ball when they made Fallout NV Steam only, they lost customers and created a whole bunch of brand new pirates out of the some of the people who wont or cant use Steam.

I havent been able to play F NV as while I wont have Steam, I'm not a pirate and never have been.

I think it stinks for game companies to FORCE people into having to use an interfering, spying, limiting, take over your pc peice of 3rd party software like Steam.

If you like Steam, good for you, but dont force it on me.

Have we used the same version of Steam? Yours sounds completely different to mine.

Perhaps he uses some other Steam services? Underground one may be? :P

You are wrong. All forms of DRM only hurt legitimate purchasers of your game - this thread should be evidence enough.

People that want to purchase your game will do so regardless, although many will either skip it or pirate it, if it has a particularly obnoxious form of DRM.

Conversley, the people that were going to pirate your game, also will do so regardless. All forms of DRM are cracked withing days of game release.

Therefor, the only thing you've achieved is forcing some people, that initially were prepared to purchase your game, to prirate it instead, due to obnoxious DRM.

You are biting the hand that feeds you.

Some developers/publishers, like CDPro Red, Stardock etc. are beginning to realise this and are acting accordingly by releaseing their games DRM free. They will however be value adding in some way and/or making it necessary to be a registerd user to download patches/updates/DLC etc... a much better way to go.

Well, DRM has one plus: if you want patches and support - you will buy the game, coz you can't use te patches with juarez-version of the game. Release groups don't do patches. Well, they do, but only for a rare set of the games. Mostly VERY popular ones.

I was going to say something similar during my arguments, but as I had already been accused of conducting an obnoxious witch-hunt after my first post, I didn't think anyone on here was ready to hear this. Regardless, you are entirely right! So, yeah, reward your customers Larian, don't punish them!

I would be more than happy having to download updates, patches etc, as a registered user than I would be having dodgy DRM clogging up my OS.

Ok, Lar_q, I have a solution, it might be awkward to implement due to ending up with different skus, but how about keeping the current system with SecuROM on all the different versions of DKS...EXCEPT for the Steam version. With the Steam version, just use Steam itself as the DRM. Don't worry about the 3 activations limit because Steam only allows 3 copies of the game to be installed on any one user's account.

If I'm being entirely honest however, I would go with the user who recommended Impulse Reactor, particularly if it doesn't install any crap on my system, but I'm assuming you wanted the 3 install limit left intact, which is why I suggested the idea above.

I think everyone knows that DRM does not work except to make money for the company's that produce DRM.

There are two types of pirate.
One downloads a game and plays it to its conclusion having no intention of purchase.
The other downloads a game, plays it for a hour or so, if they like it they buy it, if they don't like it then they delete it from their computer.

One is a thief and the other is just being careful with their money.

Thanks for all the input folks, after posting in another thread asking about the differences between the 360 and PC versions, I've been persuaded to go with the 360 version.

It may not be quite as good as the PC version, but at least my PC won't get shafted!

I guess all there is left to say is: Screw you SecuROM!

You're wrong. Steam allows you to install the game as much as you can.

Sorry, I should have been more clear, you are allowed to install and uninstall as much as you want, but you can only have your account (plus games) installed on 3 computers at any one time.

Listen it doesn't matter, SecuROM is being removed... it was even posted on these forums several times that Larian was going to remove secuROM like they do on all their games.