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Did "he" really say that ? I mean the "looks like you're writing a quest" remark ?

Concerning mini-games/puzzles that might be a part of D:OS - I think it would be nice if you could say "I let my character do it" if you don't feel inclined to do it yourself. In a game with several different components, the player doesn't have to like all of them, but might still like to finish the game or a particular quest.

For example, there might be a puzzle - the player isn't keen on solving puzzles and doesn't want to bother looking for a solution, but says "Hey, my character has high intelligence, so he should be able to figure it out." You include an option to choose an attribute check instead of solving the puzzle manually.

If a card game is part of D:OS and the player doesn't want to play it, she could say "My character is so dextrous, she tries to win by cheating." Again, an option with an attribute check could be chosen to replace the actual game.

High dexterity could also lead to automatically being successful in a jumping challenge or a race, while high intelligence could replace anything that involves using your brain as a player.

High strength, on the other hand, could be used to instantly win fights if the player doesn't want to actually play them. I know many people consider fights to be integral parts of role-playing games, but some don't. They are more interested in the story and in questing. There are also some people who don't like turn-based combat although they would be generally interested in D:OS. For those, it could be an option to create a very strong character, allowing them to skip all fights.

With such a system, every player could focus on the parts of the game they like best.

"I don't feel like playing the game today, but hey, my character has high intelligence and stats, he should be able to do it himself! We need an option to let him finish the game while I sipping a cup of a hot coffee."

The game that plays itself.

For the more unpatient or brainless players ... it's indeed a good idea to give one or more options to solve a puzzle ! I'm in for this option although I prefer to solve the puzzle myself, without the quick(er) solution !

And if their is such an option, please give the patient player, who solve the puzzle himself, at least a better reward for his/her effort & time spending on searching for the solution of a puzzle or side quest, etc !

This is not Dragon Age 2 forums.

Flowers on Jake's grave. More of that awesomeness please.

LOL not that kind of aid. I've written enough custom scripts myself in toolsets that I would get annoyed with that kind of feature.

The scarier truth is that I think there will be some who would appreciate that feature. Just give the option to turn it off

On the game itself:
I would prefer that there will be less of the "search" puzzle. I would like to spend time thinking instead of searching every square inch of the place for that elusive button/key/lever/item.

since I'm a bit bored now, I just imagined the continuation

ProgressQuest ?

Please give us characters we care about.

Apart from the other excellent suggestions, i'd like to add to that list, characters that breathe life into their existence. What i'm trying to say, though i may not put it as eloquently as i could, is that: please bring back the "role-playing" in rpg.

Some of the best and most memorable moments i've had were not found in the combat mechanices and in the biggest and baddest equipment i've found from killing monsters. They were found in the various adventures i've had in fleshing out the story of the game and in the companions i've had in the journeys.

baldur's gate games made me feel that way. off the top of my head, neverwinter nights ii (not the first) also, likewise its excellent expansion "mask of the betrayer", and dragon age: origins. khelgar and grobnar's dialogues were downright funny. motb, in my opinion, contained some of the best writing i've experienced in playing an rpg. it had one of the most unique companions in "one-of-many"; and how can i forget about gann? i really did not understand why he acted the way he did initially, not until i slowly began to peel layer after layer of his background story that i truly understood him. my original feelings of contempt towards him gradually turned to pity as we travelled together. now, that is one unforgettable experience.

dragon age: origins brought me similar moments also. the characters, both companions and sometimes adversaries, in that game evoked diverse feelings that are hard to shake long after i've finished playing. in the dlc "return to ostagar", i felt a certain tinge of sadness when i gazed upon the body of the king.
there's a truly heart-breaking scene in there.

quite a long wishlist now...

What Lurker said has already been implemented in other games (specifically in D&D games). A specific example would be chapter of the Hordes of the Underdark expansion for Neverwinter Nights. Exactly as Lurker described (I'm even suspecting he drew that idea from D&D), a door is locked wherein you should guess the next number of a sequence. The options include the possible answers and an intelligence stat check. Since my character was a wizard I had the option to breeze through it however I've been hacking and slashing so much that I needed a break and solved all the door puzzles manually.

Many suggestions here remind me of a lot of classic pc Rpg games. And I'm not even a fanatic on RPGs there are many I've missed like Fable, Gothic 1, Dungeon siege 1... Even my suggestions for the toolset are staple features shared by many (to the point that one can read it and say "duh! generic toolset").

Oh, the "Let my character do it" option has already been implemented? I didn't know ... I've played most D&D games, but not the Hordes of the Underdark expansion, and I don't remember anything like this being possible in another game. However, I do remember that certain dialogue options in D&D games require certain stat values, otherwise they don't appear. I always liked this because it added replay value.

Modern RPGs often include aspects of other genres - first-person shooters, adventures, jump 'n' runs, race games, shoot 'em ups, card games, or even flight simulators. This can be a nice variation, but it can also be annoying if you don't like the genre. As long as these aspects aren't part of the main storyline, players can simply avoid them, but there are also many completionists who want to finish every quest. That's why I suggested the "Let my character do it" approach.



There are games that almost play themselves - interactive movies with a minimum of interaction. I wouldn't want D:OS to be like that, though I guess there might come a day when you can determine the protagonist's looks (and maybe stats and skills) and then watch a movie-like game fully playing itself. And it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

Circling back around, still very excited to be getting a true turn-based coop game. Not sure that I can think of the last one made. Has their been one? (Not counting some semi-crappy mmo one's)

1. A couple of things from playing some of those pause based coop games, NeverWinter Nights that I didn't feel was right was you needed or had a fighter and a mage, common sense. Someone suffered boredom being the fighter, with having next to no fun options from turn to turn. The wizard was a true joy to play, as you could meticulously choose a wide range of options every play. Fighter, swing, block, cleave, swing. Wizard about 25 options.

Even the Wizard was a lot more fun than a sorcerer and their limited spell-book in the DnD world when you play it out turn based.

I would prefer the characters to be Battle-Mages of sorts (aka well rounded). Where they have the full gambit of options. So all players playing coop can have a lot of choices at hand and not just the guy who's the wizard. And even trump DnD by allowing your character first not be a total squishy spell caster but also allowing the bonding ritual of sharing pointed steel face to face.

2. Other things with turned based that is problematic is Resources and Sleep. I would suggest that your characters are fully replenished automatically after every battle. That way you can balance encounters knowing the players will be fully balanced and alas also give us maximum choices each time. Games like Knight of the Chalice (DnD) or TOEE had issues with this, they couldn't make a lot of balls out scenarios, because they wouldn't know if you were rested or depleted as you are 5 battles deep from rest and low on resources.

I say give us full restores after a battle and give us epic battles knowing we are fully capable each time.

3. I also find in turn based games, which led to why they sort of got lost in the mix the past 10 years is the interface never made it elegant enough to make a quick choice each turn. I love turn base and if I need a lot of time to think what to do, I want that and have that. But a lot of times you have a plan and just need to play it out. So the UI being ready for you in a clean one click manner would imo redefine the genre and open it back up to a wider audience.

Wizardy 8 for example and again a Mage, someone with a lot of options turn to turn. The interface in that game would stay the same if it was the fighters turn or the mages turn. The fighter, click one icon, attack. Next turn. The mage, I want to do magic, click once open up magic, click school, click spell, click amount of power and finally it fired off. Playing coop this is timely. It's tiring enough single player for the 1000'th time. The genre seemed to peter out before the UI's (resolution) became advanced and high enough to really find it's panacea. More advancement from this genre is needed, I think there is breakthrough potential here.

Using the Wiz 8 example above, when it becomes the mages turn or anyone's turn for that matter, a part of the screen should be adapting and showing all options for a quick one click execution, less obvious tactical moves on the screen. Something like a drop down list of all possible options, sexy/elegant in looks and functionality, if you had something like power, those would be displayed with a gradient and click to the left is low power consumption and output, while far right being the most resources used and most damage done. So 4 clicks now becomes one for a mage, like it was one for the fighter.

Now I have no idea what Original Sin is planning, but please keep in mind to see if you can create an adaptive UI that can still get to almost all combat options per turn in one click. That will make coop that much smoother and make people reconsider that turn based while strategic, doesn't have to be tedious as well.

I also dream of a coop Wiz 8 with an improved UI.

Also want to shout out, I loved Divinty 2 DKS, I hope you also go back some day to that style of game as well. I loved the action combat in it. As good an action first/3rd person RPG that I've played and imo the next installment will do well, it took a lot of us RPG'ers and Steam Sale searchers a while to find that gem. I don't think I'm alone here and wouldn't need to wait for a sale for the follow up.

1. All of the Divinity games have been using a classless system, so you should be able to turn your character into as much of a battle-mage as you wish.

2. Only combat will be turn-based. Within the real-time exploration it should generally be possible to fully heal your character between battles. Unless you run out of healing stuff, maybe.

3. In turn-based combat, there's no need to quickly press a key, but I'd still like to have a quick-key bar. This way, you can assign keys to the skills, spells, or items you use most often and only need to open a full menu for accessing the rarely used ones. In my eyes, that's more convenient than clicking, plus it allows you to quickly use something in preparation before entering combat.

1. Yes, all of the Divinity games have been using a classless system, but [in my opinion] players should be rewarded for sticking with one particular tree. They should be rewarded with a very good and unique skill that is on top of the talent tree [because people who mix skills tend to pick up only the best ones from each tree which is kinda unfair].

I disagree, personally, because I don't like sticking to one particular tree.

The real master transcends the given rules, the given paths. Sure, he or she must have walked them before, but transcending is only achieved when everything is left behind.

I have just seen the movie "Rango" on DVD this evening; it is an good example of this transcendence of a given thing. It is a "Hero's Journey" in literature.

And in real life a master of let's say crafting is only then one when he or she has transcended the given and needed rules needed to produce craft-work so that it becomes art.

Because Art is transcended Crafting.

Unless one very evil game programmer decided to make it impossible for anyone stupid enough to invest in only one skill tree of course

Maybe this sounds crazy but I liked the mixture of worthless and powerful skills next to each other. Forced me to consider very carefully.

He wasn't talking about forceful sticking to the particular class, he was talking about the reward for dedication to this class and tree.

And if you want a demagogy - fine then. Learning one specialty takes a lot of time and effort, becoming a master in it takes almost entire life (art, composing, writing, etc; and even if you dedicate your whole life to it you still can't say you have mastered it fully because there is always something to learn). And it is just one profession/direction. You are talking about many.

Such talk is just water under bridge.

The result of such an reward will be the spreading of "what's the best build ?" "which build should I take ?" "build suggestionss" threads and build herem, build there, build everyywhere - like in any action-RPG. It even spreads over to non-action RPGs ! Several people (an astonishingly lot for my impression) asked in the Drakensang forums "what's the best build for this game" ! Even although everyone should have known already that these gmes didn't require builds !

When he gets an reward for complete dedication for sticking to class and tree -

- THEN I want my own reward for non-sticking to ANY class & tree !

Then I'm fine with it.

This will be the case in literally every game with skill/talent system [be it defined classes or classless design]. There is plenty of Divine Divinity guides in which you can read what skills are good and what skills should be skipped.




Your reward is versatility. You are jack of all trades, master of none.

There always will be such threads no matter what. No reason to be mad about that :p


That was kind of the point of my post - each build has its own reward, multiclass as well.