Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Jan 2012
Lotrotk Offline OP
enthusiast
OP Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2012
In one word: boring

It's the only reason I'd consider using cheats. Traditionally this is handled by either not allowing items to the inventory or speed handicap. Perhaps it's time for a new philosophy?

It is, of course, realistic to deploy either of methods above, but it makes it less enjoyable to me, alas. On the other hand, a character that is runnning, flying, jumping through the gameworld without (a) visible backpack and (b) never losing anything on the track? Come on, that's no realism either.

When comparing the Witcher (1) and Skyrim, I see that in both a limited inventory space is allowed, and both can store items elsewhere. If I'm not mistaken, in the Witcher only a tavern could store up and even this was limited space, whilst Skyrim allows the player to store virtually any amount in numerous chests, vases, carcasses,...

The last one is an example of "even more irritating due to compromises". If you HAVE an unlimited storage but you have to RETURN to it each time you find something worth keeping, then YES you spend 10% gameplay hopping from storage to exploring and back.
So the Witcher was harder. There were NO compromises. You had to carefully decide what to throw away. The designers were clever enough to have the 'source' and 'destination' storages in one screen, so that overview and transfer were geronimofast.

I have no 'realistic' alternatives, but now you know one reason why the Witcher >>> Skyrim.

Joined: Jan 2012
Lotrotk Offline OP
enthusiast
OP Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2012
Also, the Witcher required destroying objects that were removed from inventory. So no hope to recover them one day, and thus no further worries once the cruel deed (the horror! the nighmares! the traumas!) had been done.

Joined: Jan 2012
Lotrotk Offline OP
enthusiast
OP Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2012
I believe the perfect solution, whatever it will be, will NOT be realistic. No throw items on the ground thing. And no return to the safehold's unlimited vault cause that's boring and a game is supposed to be fun.

And I want holes in my inventory, so I can loose items on the track if I don't repair it on the way. I really do. Perhaps more items --> more holes is a nice idea to tinker on.

Joined: Jan 2009
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jan 2009
I haven't played the Witcher in a long time, but there doesn't seem to be much of a difference except for the Witcher's invisible magical imps who immediately carry away anything you drop on the floor. That's not a good thing, that's just annoying and dumb.

If you want to play a game where anything you drop is gone for good, there's nothing in Skyrim that's stopping you from playing that way. No one is forcing you go carry every bit of loot back and store or sell it.

But just because you like that style doesn't mean everyone does or that it's even the best style. Especially with the literally crazy idea to have random items fall out of "holes" in the player's inventory. How in the world would that be fun in any way?


There are two schools of thought for inventory management:

Divine Divinity had a system where you had a carrying capacity - too much and you're reduced to walking, reach your limit and you can't move at all.

Diablo 2 had a grid-based inventory - each item took up a different amount of slots in the inventory.

Divinity 2 had a strange hybrid: each item took up one slot, but you had a limited capacity of slots. 100 books and 100 cuirasses took up the same amount of inventory space.

Of these choices, I prefer the strenght-based carrying capacity method of limiting inventory space.

Joined: Jan 2012
Lotrotk Offline OP
enthusiast
OP Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2012
Any system that prevents from stockpiling is a good one in my eyes: unlimited storage, drop, hide and collect later on, ... That would have me focus on becoming wealthy. Destroying on removal or a system of lose items ... it shifts the problem to intelligent resource management rather than dumb drop-and-retrieve.

I remember when playing The Settlers of Catan, when a 7 was thrown all players that held more than 7 resources were to dismiss half of it. The rule was applied for the same reasons: stockpiling ruins gameplay.

Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Canada
Larian Studios
Offline
Larian Studios
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Canada

So late in the game you should still have to run around looking for herbs to make potions or crappy loot to trade with?

What kind of backpack would loose random loot but somehow not quest related items? Or should quests/puzzles be designed to never involve items?


In Siege of Avalon there was a slot based inventory system IIRC. You could bring looted equipment back to town to sell, but eventually the prices dropped (supply and demand), so there was little point in looting (after mid game, or so, equipment upgrade finds were pretty rare, as well).

Joined: Apr 2005
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Apr 2005
Why not make a inventory system like in Diablo : big things more space than little things
OR heavy things more weight than light things
OR both rules at the same time ?
Plus carrying capacity is depending on a stat of the hero (strength - or condition).
Plus something like in Divinity II, but with the possibility to read books without forcing you to take them all with you . And possibility to drop items OR store in a chest, barrel, cupboard, pit, grave, etc etc ... like in DD ! (from the beginning of the game, not only in "a battle chest"!)

Skyrim is not bad nor good system, it's a system that is good because it let the player be free to go his/her way: take ALL loot or just take what you want, it's all up to the player ! wink

But I really hope in D:OS (or Divinity III!) the player can at least DROP items like in DD (or Skyrim or ...) when overcumbered ... that will be nice smile



On 7th of february 2015 : I start a new adventure in the Divinity world of Original Sin,
it's a Fantastic Freaking Fabulous Funny ... it's my All Time Favorite One !
Joined: Aug 2012
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Aug 2012
Unlimited :
+++ : practical
--- : realist

But a good solution could be like in divinity 2, having a limited bag (one for each character?) and a chest with unlimited space^^


"-Oh that's fullmoon, cuttie cuttie sheep
-baaaaaaOOOOORGH"
***Sprotch***

Weresheeps will rule the world (At least one night every 29 days)
Joined: Jan 2012
Lotrotk Offline OP
enthusiast
OP Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2012
Originally Posted by Raze

So late in the game you should still have to run around looking for herbs to make potions or crappy loot to trade with?


That's a good point. Although that really was the case with the Witcher. You just had to be smart enough to sell your loot in time.
And I really enjoyed the game, so why not?
Besides, late in the game you can probably sell more valueable stuff, thus have more money to spend on herbs etc.
It works. Just not for all people I guess.

Joined: Jan 2012
Lotrotk Offline OP
enthusiast
OP Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2012
Originally Posted by Raze

What kind of backpack would loose random loot but somehow not quest related items? Or should quests/puzzles be designed to never involve items?


As I said in a former post, it could do the job preventing players from stockpiling stuff when they got unlimited backpack with them. If the devs don't care for stockpiling then it's a pretty stupid idea allright.
Did I say anything about random items? You're right, quest items should never be lost. And perhaps a system to favor one item so the chances to loose another one are increased can be applied as well.

Come to think of it, when crossing e.g. a river (swimming) is it not very likely that you as player may loose stuff to the waters?

It's just another idea for inventory rules. If you want to go classic or don't care for new ideas don't ask on facebook. Don't read this topic.

Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Canada
Larian Studios
Offline
Larian Studios
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Canada

I doubt most people would find loosing items a fun feature.

Why would quest items be protected? Would the character have two backpacks, one for valuable stuff and one for food, potions, torches, etc, that can be lost?

It is possible to debate a particular idea without objecting to new ideas in general.

Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Soviet Empire
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Soviet Empire
IIRC, both, DD and D2 had a system that permanently stores the loot item on its place unless there are major changes in the location. Well, latter applies to D2 only. I don't remember if items disappear if you leave the location and come back, but they definitely disappear from Broken Valley after invasion.

As for DD - I think I still have old savegames from 2002-2003 with tons of loot dropped in the town and I stored them like that since beginning of the game. They never disappeared. Something like that would be a good compromise, no?

Joined: Dec 2003
Location: Krynn
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Dec 2003
Location: Krynn
We're reading all comments about this. We think we're going for weight-based limitations. A stronger character will be able to carry more.

But indeed, position of items is remembered, so if you leave something somewhere, it's going to be there when you return. Unless we write AI scripts that steal gold that lies around smile

The other things we read (revisiting battletower-chest idea, something like the "junk" tab from Kingdoms of Amalur, the pets from Torchlight that go to shops for you...) are very interesting!

As long as the player doesn't look like this:

[Linked Image]


Tweeting @forktong
Joined: Jan 2012
Lotrotk Offline OP
enthusiast
OP Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2012
Do as you please.
Still it does look outdated to me. Why would a mage care for strenght? A simple spell would allow him to carry all that stuff as well, but he might spend a remarkable amount of mana on sustaining that spell.
And warriers at strenght 100 could just run off and fight as easily with 100 weight as with 0? That reminds me of the "how i play skyrim" video alrik referenced some time ago...

Joined: Jan 2009
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jan 2009
I remember that in TES 4: Oblivion, there was no permanent storage until you could afford a house, so your inventory tended to get more and more cluttered until you sold enough stuff. I made a mod that let 1 merchant in each of the towns sell you a storage chest. It was pricy, but more affordable than a house.

In Divinity 2, I also got overburdened with a lot of stuff before I was able to reach the battle tower - mostly potions, ores, gems and plants. I finally learned to only pick up the plants and ores that would make enchantments useful for the character I was playing.

If the game world is large enough to warrant it, perhaps in Original Sin, you could buy or rent storage space in some towns. (Preferably near crafting stations so I can dump off all the crafting ingredients I've collected. I wouldn't mind if it only held crafting ingredients - that way if you pulled off a Broken Valley and flattened the village, I wouldn't lose anything too valuable.)

***

Lotrotk, I really don't know what to say to someone who actually thinks it would be a good idea to have random items fall out of your inventory and be lost forever when walking around or swimming. Hint: That is a bad idea. Here is how it would go:

Gamer: "Dear Larian Studios, I wish to report a bug: after spending 80 hours searching, I finally found the Ebony Cuirass of Super-awesomeness to complete my set. I didn't put it on right away, and by the time I got back to town it had mysteriously vanished. This is a terrible bug."

Larian: "Dear Valued Paying Customer, that is probably not a bug. There's a random percentage chance that things in your inventory will fall out through holes. That chance is increased when swimming. Your item is gone forever. Thanks for playing!"

Gamer: <Swears so hard the paint peels off his walls, Smashes his keyboard with an axe, and carves a blood oath into his arm to never buy a Larian game again.>

Joined: Jan 2012
Lotrotk Offline OP
enthusiast
OP Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2012
If you ever catch a player doing so, please be kind enough to record it on tape and send it to me. I'll sign it and send it back to him smile
You should apply for QA man, you clearly got a good sence of anticipation!

Ok I get the message clearly no one else on this forum likes the idea of randomly loosing stuff.
I guess this means that no one wishes to be robbed as well? Lucky you the Thieves'Guild never dared to rob the Divine.

Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Soviet Empire
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Soviet Empire
Originally Posted by ForkTong
We're reading all comments about this. We think we're going for weight-based limitations. A stronger character will be able to carry more.
But indeed, position of items is remembered, so if you leave something somewhere, it's going to be there when you return. Unless we write AI scripts that steal gold that lies around smile
The other things we read (revisiting battletower-chest idea, something like the "junk" tab from Kingdoms of Amalur, the pets from Torchlight that go to shops for you...) are very interesting!
As long as the player doesn't look like this:
[Linked Image]


Haha, I'm starting to love these "macro" images from you, guys. I demand more!

The idea with NPC stealing you junk isn't new (Arcanum -- hello 9x! -- and Risen 2), but it would be interesting to see it, thought I doubt you will get around to think of it and implement.

But the permanent item drop and/or the personal chest storage like in D2 - this would be nice (the latter, of course, if narrative of the story allows it).

Originally Posted by Lotrotk
If you ever catch a player doing so, please be kind enough to record it on tape and send it to me. I'll sign it and send it back to him smile
You should apply for QA man, you clearly got a good sence of anticipation!
Ok I get the message clearly no one else on this forum likes the idea of randomly loosing stuff.
I guess this means that no one wishes to be robbed as well? Lucky you the Thieves'Guild never dared to rob the Divine.


Clearly you haven't been long enough in D2 forum section where people complained about randomly disappearing items from inventory. I think they are still there, you can dig them (and I think bug never was 100% fixed in the end)

Last edited by Kein; 28/11/12 05:00 PM.
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Canada
Larian Studios
Offline
Larian Studios
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Canada

I guess this means that no one wishes to be robbed as well?

Do you mean stuff on the ground just disappearing, or a stickup/pickpocket where you know when it happens and can possibly track down the stolen goods?

Would random stuff be stolen, or something specifically put in the game for that purpose? (ie an item at the bottom of a dungeon that triggers the appearance of some bandits when you leave, where you have to hand it over something or a hostage will be killed)


Lucky you the Thieves'Guild never dared to rob the Divine.

There was a pickpocket who could steal gold from you, though. If you met his wife first you could stop him in the initial cutscene conversation, otherwise you could talk to him again to get your gold back.

Joined: Jan 2012
Lotrotk Offline OP
enthusiast
OP Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2012
Originally Posted by Raze

There was a pickpocket who could steal gold from you, though. If you met his wife first you could stop him in the initial cutscene conversation, otherwise you could talk to him again to get your gold back.


I remember him now, altough he was no part of the guild as far as we know. Let us drop the item of loosing the item then. I think I'll just wait for another topic to feed with my profound ideas that are clearly way ahead of the time smile

btw Swen uploaded his blog on lar.net
go and see for yourselfves!

Joined: Jan 2009
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jan 2009
Random NPC's stealing things from you or your house is somewhat annoying, but in limited uses it could be okay as long as you make sure the player knows what's happened - and ideally, you get a lead or quest to track them down. Some kind of note (thanks for your stuff - Cecil -> New Quest: Find Cecil and get your stuff back.)

The Divine Divinity example above is a good, uh... example. Quests where you get robbed of a specific item as part of a plot are also okay.

Things disappearing from your house/inventory at random with no warning, that's the kind of thing that could easily be confused with a bug, and it will certainly irritate a good number of people.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5