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I'm on turn 9 and Scarlett wants me to back Oberon on the issue of gay marriage. Except her argument for this doesn't demonstrate that she understands the issue.

First off she wants me to pick a side before I've heard the arguments for or against the proposal. The council hasn't even gathered for this yet and I'm already being asked to accept or reject it.

Second, the responses the game allows are a) be convinced by her weak argument, or b) be very opinionated about it myself. I can't keep an open mind about it. I can't consider what she said. I can't point out the flaws in her reasoning.

Scarlett used a lizard painter as an example, pointing out that he was forced to marry someone he doesn't love. But not allowing gay marriage doesn't force people to get married to the opposite gender. I don't understand how he was forced to get married because another type of marriage wasn't permitted. Not getting married wouldn't have stopped him from doing whatever it was he was already doing. If anything it's an argument for banning all marriage instead allowing another form of it. That way the lizard painter won't be miserable and others like him won't feel left out any more.

Last edited by SKARDAVNELNATE; 10/08/13 12:43 AM.

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The Undead, Elf and Dwarf councillors opinions are pretty clear and you can hear their opinions before you have to decide. The Lizards are almost certainly in favour because it increases personal freedoms, and the Imps don't really care about anything that isn't science related.

No, the game doesn't let you have any other choices. This is to force you to decide which of the options you prefer. YOU, the player, are the one who has to consider what she said. If you feel her arguments are weak and unconvincing, then side against her.

The game is not going to let you abolish marriage, seeing as you are required to get married as part of the storyline. I doubt the council would care much for that idea either.

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Originally Posted by Stabbey
YOU, the player, are the one who has to consider what she said. If you feel her arguments are weak and unconvincing, then side against her.

Feeling that her argument is weak is not the same as being strongly opinionated in opposition to it. I feel that the argument made in that response is equally as unconvincing.

Also I feel that as a matter of statehood it's irresponsible of me to decide whether I'll pledge or withhold support for Oberon before he has even presented his argument.

Last edited by SKARDAVNELNATE; 10/08/13 12:40 AM.

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Originally Posted by Stabbey
The Undead, Elf and Dwarf councillors opinions are pretty clear and you can hear their opinions before you have to decide. The Lizards are almost certainly in favour because it increases personal freedoms, and the Imps don't really care about anything that isn't science related.

Elf and Dwarf are on the bridge. Undead is in the bar. How do I talk to the Lizard and Imp about it? I ignored any battle to get to the next turn and see the different results. If I agreed it's already been passed as a law. If I refused then Oberon doesn't even bother presenting his own argument.

I guess it wasn't that important to him. Or did he only announce it as a way to hit on me? think
It does seem odd that he just assumed I would side with him before hearing arguments.

Last edited by SKARDAVNELNATE; 10/08/13 01:22 AM.

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You can't talk to the Lizard or Imp, but I'm pretty sure those are the positions they'd take. This decision was presented like this because it's part of Scarlett's story arc, not a random political decision. There are other parts of different General's arcs where you make decisions at the requests of generals that might otherwise have come up for a council vote. The council is there to advise only. In the words of Terry Pratchett, it's a 1 man, 1 vote system. As Emperor, you are the man, and you have the vote.


It's true that Larian could have done this differently, maybe had the player be non-committal to Scarlett, but only allow the council to meet and present their arguments, so you could vote once you had talked to her. That would also have been a valid way to handle it. But that's not what they did. Oh well.

Oberon has a wife, it's mentioned in one of the other council sessions.

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Originally Posted by Stabbey
This decision was presented like this because it's part of Scarlett's story arc, not a random political decision.

I've only been deciding it based on results 1 turn ahead. How do the choices effect the arc?

Originally Posted by Stabbey
Oberon has a wife, it's mentioned in one of the other council sessions.

I'm not sure how to interpret that following the lizard painter example. Since apparently gays were being forced to get married in Rivelon is that evidence for or against?

Last edited by SKARDAVNELNATE; 10/08/13 02:30 AM.

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I'm not sure with Scarlett, but on my second playthrough, I made the opposite decision for a Catherine question that I made on the first run, and her second request was different AND it directly referenced the choice I made the first time.

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Originally Posted by Stabbey
AND it directly referenced the choice I made the first time.
Yeah, I think the dialog is switched around in a few places.


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Pretty much universally the dialog is written this way, I stopped getting invested in it very early on. You have control over what your character does but none at all on how he acts. Put it down to royal upbringing but he is always diplomatic in agreeing with people and never asks for clarification.

Now that I think of it the dialog for the commander is much better written than I gave credit for, if you think about what kind of a character he would be it makes a lot of sense. He doesn't respect Scarlett enough to discuss her views, if he agrees with them he'll pretend to go along, if he doesn't then his opinion is law and that's the end of it.

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Originally Posted by Rack
...Now that I think of it the dialog for the commander is much better written than I gave credit for, if you think about what kind of a character he would be it makes a lot of sense. He doesn't respect Scarlett enough to discuss her views, if he agrees with them he'll pretend to go along, if he doesn't then his opinion is law and that's the end of it.

That's an interesting perspective.

The Emperor has final say: Period. They are trying to convince the Emperor, not the other way around.

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It's not a surprise that Scarlett may not be the best debater, or be able to make the most articulate and elegant arguments. Scarlett is the only general without previous high status. Edmund and Henry were lords with titles and lands, Catherine was a queen. Scarlett likes to party, to brawl and booze. It makes sense if her arguments are not of the same caliber of the professional politicians of the Council.


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