Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity Original Sin - Beta Difficulty vs Final stretch of the development

Personally, I think that the difficulty that is associated with not knowing the the game features or understanding how to use them isn't difficulty, but ignorance. Ignorance is not a proper measurement of challenge in a game.

For instance, chess does not become easier because you learned how all the pieces move. Understanding how to play the game is required from the start and the challenge is in each play of the game, not if someone forgot a rule or how a particular piece moves.

If the game becomes easy once someone knows all the rules and features, then it was never difficult in the first place. Rules don't make a game difficult, that difficulty is in the persons ability to learn the system which is irrelevant to actual game play.

Wow, Brainiac even managed to upset sweet caring loving Ellary !

Can't wait for the next funny episode. Gonna get a diet coke, brb.

@Joebart: I did ask brainiac to summary. It saves time, and what he says can be summarized in about 5 to 10 lines by normal people anyways. But well. I bow to the devs that must be wasting their time reading his verbal logorrhea.

Tip: Take a moment to read the forums, notice not everyone agrees on things? but they don't start acting all superior and slinging insults. No excuse for age or where you are from and make it acceptable to be rude. Also just because it is the internet and you will most likely never see someones face. They are still real people. Remember that.

Godammit, can't you just summary your thoughts ?

Currently, the game is very, very easy.
A large part of the reactions about the game presumed difficulty that you can hear being talked about is actually coming from early players, beginners and various casual players who simply dont bother with any of the game numerous features or options.
Or have missed some of them by accident.

I think you either didnt read or didnt understand what im saying Ellary.

I am in fact saying that the normal mode as it is is alright. Baring some minor changes and adjustments. And that the devs can save themselves some time and resources by not doing the Hard difficult now - at all, but instead release it after a few months after the game comes out.

And that would have its own benefits too.

It would give them more time to concentrate to the core of the game experience for the majority of players - its normal mode. And it could result in a better hard difficulty later on.
To mention just the few main probable benefits.

An unorthodox approach to be sure but... wouldn't that be in line with the overall style and core design features of the game and Larian studios in general?

I don't even know what to say...I had something huge typed out..removing it as it will make no diff. =p

And I honestly hope both you and Hiver understand.. that if the game was unplayable to a large group..sales would fail so hard. Bad game reviews would be posted all over and Larian could lose a lot of money and future support on games?

If you and Hiver want a truly hardcore experience. use the toolkit remove most of the loot and such yourself. Kinda funny how so many can love the game already~~

Note: on release if the toolkit is to hard for anyone I will be making a Hardcore mode. I made one for skyrim and every other game I was able to mod.

Lets be fair here Ellary. While Hiver certainly lacks social tact when it comes to certain problems in discussions with others, the foundation of his objection was correct. People here took issue with his tone while ignoring his content. With some even acting like rude children:



He was correct in his pointing out that people weren't reading his comments. For instance, your first response took issue with his tone and ignored the content of his discussion. I read his first post over and over trying to see if there was any merit in getting offended and I say none.

You took this comment:



and took offense to his using the words "early players, beginners, and various casual players". As we can see, no derogatory tone was taken here. Like it or not, there are different types of players out there and "casual" is a common term that is not negative in its description.

Stabby, Hairyscottsman, and Horrorscope all responded to the discussion without negative comments or taking offense to the discussion. It wasn't until Cromcrom and you commented that the discussion was turned to accusation and negative focus. In fact, Hiver even responded to your post explaining you were wrong. Only offensive thing in it is that he says you either didn't read his post or misunderstood it. See here:



Seems you were a bit thin skinned and got angry at his response resulting in:




There was a couple more light attacks at Hiver and then several posts that met his objections (ie they didn't read his posts and were feeding off others who made accusations that conflicted with his posts).

After that, everything turned into just focusing on his attacks.

Now certainly, Hiver got nasty, and I am not saying it is proper, but if we follow the evidence here, his poor comments did not come about until people provoked him without cause, be it intentionally or not.

<3 well can only push so far, and I dislike when people assume I am stupid~ as Hiver mentioned before claiming I don't understand things.. Sick of seeing him insult others also. So if he wants a brain battle~ I will have to slap on my nerd glasses and go to war.

You can try all you want convince me poor Hiver was provoked. That mind game won't work here~

His argument is not even valid. Nor is yours~ Can sugar coat it all you want. Honestly this entire thread just needs to be deleted. nothing but an unneeded eyesore on the forums. Nothing good or productive has come of it.

And I honestly hope both you and Hiver understand.. that if the game was unplayable to a large group..sales would fail so hard. Bad game reviews would be posted all over and Larian could lose a lot of money and future support on games?

If you and Hiver want a truly hardcore experience. use the toolkit remove most of the loot and such yourself. Kinda funny how so many can love the game already~~

Note: on release if the toolkit is to hard for anyone I will be making a Hardcore mode. I made one for skyrim and every other game I was able to mod.

I am not here defending him. I think it is obvious that Hiver's comments were heated and inappropriate. I was commenting on the logic of the discussion only, to which Hiver is correct with his claims concerning the responses to the content of his discussion (ie people weren't inferring valid summaries of his discussion).




So just like that you are going to make an accusation and disregard all of the evidence of discussion I provided to the contrary? I hope you realize such action on your part disqualifies you from establishing a valid (or even sound) argument.

Edit:

BTW Ellary,

What makes someone stupid is not ignorance or error, rather arrogance in the face of it.

Finally someone who understands what i've been saying.. thank you Ellary... they don't realize that teaching the rules and systems of crafting and combat and such isn't hand holding... its teaching how the pieces move .. very well put post... And they don't understand that for the game to be succesfull it needs to teach NEW players how to play lol.. not just cater to the hardcore here in the forums...

Finally someone who understands what i've been saying.. thank you Ellary... they don't realize that teaching the rules and systems of crafting and combat and such isn't hand holding... its teaching how the pieces move .. very well put post... And they don't understand that for the game to be succesfull it needs to teach NEW players how to play lol.. not just cater to the hardcore here in the forums...

Godammit, can't you just summary your thoughts ?

heated

Still, brainiac, can you summary your thougths ? It's also a proof of intelligence, you know. Saves everybody's time. And not insulting people directly might lead your posts to be discussed, not your spoiled attitude for 2 pages.

And its funny how they can't see the difference in that and hand holding lol.. its beyond me.
Remember the days of 100 page manuals... that wasn't hand holding it was awesome.. it prepped you and got you readdy for all the games systems... divinity won't have that.. so it needs to be very transparent in its systems or it will fail... simple.

This is not hand holding...

Everyone is arguing with everyone based on opinions alone lol.. such arguments can't ever be truly won.

Opinions can be invalid though (improperly reasoned and rooted in fallacy), so not all are equal in that respect.

Read this whole thread, what is it talking about? What were the objections here and were they founded in properly reasoned logic, or were they unsupported accusations of fallacious means?

The main point of this discussion was how to make "hard" mode more difficult based on the evaluation Hiver gave as to why the game was too easy.

The "opinons" here should be about what people think would work and would not concerning those systems, but instead it has devolved into petty emotional contests and objections.

The "opinons" here should be about what people think would work and would not concerning those systems, but instead it has devolved into petty emotional contests and objections.