Larian Banner: Baldur's Gate Patch 9
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#496800 26/05/14 09:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Hiver Offline OP
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Mar 2014


There is a very noticeable lack of spells that create ice in the current beta. Those that are there are very limited in what they can achieve.

This is especially visible when you compare it to fire spells and effects. Anything that fire touches burts into flames.
Any flammable surface hit by any fiery spell turns into burning surface whole, covering a huge or very big area.
Fire destroys various containers by continuously burning, clears obstacles like poison acid sludge, and you have several offensive spells of it to use.

On the other side there is almost no spells that actually crate ice.
Only the ice spike for lower levels, basically. And ice arrows rangers have.

Both of these create only very small icy surfaces, even when aimed at a water surface - while fire makes whole surface burst into flames - and lightning makes a whole watery surface electrified.

The only spells that creates a bigger icy surface is Ice wall and Ice elemental when it dies.

At least those are the only ones i found. Both require higher levels - i.e. come to use late in the beta.



In general, magic is missing a bit more offensive spells for low levels. Earth spells were greatly improved by addition of the spider summon lately, but is generally very useful as a buff styled magic branch.

Air has blitz bolt, headvice, teleport and lightning strike, plus some very nice buffs.


Water could be a bit more diverse, and generally spells could have more synergistic uses and effects on each other.
In the starting lower levels.

Various kinds of clouds are creating a lot of problems now.
Maybe removing those, or turning them into something else would be a good use for some additional low level Water - ice based spells?

And the results of those could then be affected by other magic styles.

Black clouds could be dissipated with rain or by affected lightning spells?
Heated up with fire into becoming toxic?

Poisonous clouds could be affected by some cold spells or even rain spell, so they fall to the ground and become puddles?

Could they be blown into specific direction by some sort of gusts to do poisonous or corrosive damage?





Joined: Jan 2014
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jan 2014
Ice is a pretty powerful effect in that it basically provides the party with free attacks (since slipped opponents are helpless on the ground) at 100% accuracy (which equates to "time to toggle those damage stances on"). Perhaps that's why the developers are reluctant to create large AOE patches of it.

Joined: Jan 2009
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jan 2009
Earth has only two Earth-Type damage spells, which makes Earth Resistance pretty underwhelming compared to other resistance types. (See thread for details.)

Witchcraft is a school for buffing/debuffing, but it doesn't have a lot of buffs (Oath of Malediction, Absorb the Elements, Resurrect). It could probably use more spells in general.


There may not be a lot of new things added before release, but hopefully, after the release, some new spells will be patched in.

Joined: May 2014
L
member
Offline
member
L
Joined: May 2014
Earth actually has a decent selection of spells, with the spider summon, poison dart, poison arrow and boulder dash available within the first ten levels. It could use with some filler damage spells between poison dart and boulder dash, though. Later levels have another summon (bloodswarm?), a cone-type damage spell (acid something) and an AoE damage spell (earthquake).

Fire is fine.

Water is...interesting, because it synergizes so well with Air.

Witchcraft is problematic, because of your three damage spells (which have a huge level distance from each other) two require you to be in melee range, and your debuffs are melee as well. The skeleton summon is also kind of crap compared to the fire, ice and spider summons, since those can take advantage of elemental weaknesses.

Last edited by LordofBones; 27/05/14 03:10 AM.
Joined: Jan 2009
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jan 2009
Originally Posted by LordofBones
Earth actually has a decent selection of spells, with the spider summon, poison dart, poison arrow and boulder dash available within the first ten levels.


You missed my point, which is a little surprising considering it was only one sentence. It was not "Earth has nothing to do."

EARTH RESISTANCE is much less valuable than other resistance types because there are only two spells which do Earth-Type Damage.


Joined: May 2014
L
member
Offline
member
L
Joined: May 2014
Originally Posted by Stabbey
Originally Posted by LordofBones
Earth actually has a decent selection of spells, with the spider summon, poison dart, poison arrow and boulder dash available within the first ten levels.


You missed my point, which is a little surprising considering it was only one sentence. It was not "Earth has nothing to do."

EARTH RESISTANCE is much less valuable than other resistance types because there are only two spells which do Earth-Type Damage.



Earth is actually odd, because it's the only spell school that has two different elements under one banner. Earth Shield gives both Poison and Earth resistance, for example.

But yeah, you're right. Larian should add a few spells there.

Tenebrium is the strangest one, though. At least earth damage actually exists.

Last edited by LordofBones; 27/05/14 03:35 AM.
Joined: Mar 2014
Hiver Offline OP
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Mar 2014
Air magic has one or more spells that can cause "ice" or freezing effects.

Water has some too.

I have to clarify that i was thinking about this not in terms of magic styles as they are in the game but more in terms of element of Ice as one of the game main story points.



How about a bit more synergy with other magic spells?

Freeze an enemy and then hit them with a fire spell - critical hit makes them explode like a Terminator? (minus different resistances, specific to bosses etc)

Isnt the collaboration of Fire and Ice in some ancient war against the Void specifically a part of the main story - theme?

How about other elements having these synergies too?
At least a few.



More early offensive spells for all magic schools could be done by using higher level spells lesser forms - that deal less damage, smaller effects - and use same animation and effects only slightly adjusted and changed to look a bit different.


(all these spells should be usable by enemies. of course.)

Joined: May 2014
Y
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Y
Joined: May 2014
Originally Posted by Hiver
Air magic has one or more spells that can cause "ice" or freezing effects.

Water has some too.

I have to clarify that i was thinking about this not in terms of magic styles as they are in the game but more in terms of element of Ice as one of the game main story points.



How about a bit more synergy with other magic spells?

Freeze an enemy and then hit them with a fire spell - critical hit makes them explode like a Terminator? (minus different resistances, specific to bosses etc)

Isnt the collaboration of Fire and Ice in some ancient war against the Void specifically a part of the main story - theme?

How about other elements having these synergies too?
At least a few.



More early offensive spells for all magic schools could be done by using higher level spells lesser forms - that deal less damage, smaller effects - and use same animation and effects only slightly adjusted and changed to look a bit different.


(all these spells should be usable by enemies. of course.)


I agree with having more lower level spells... weaker versions of high level spells... for more diversity in low level gameplay.

Joined: Jan 2011
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Jan 2011
Originally Posted by ynotndalton
I agree with having more lower level spells... weaker versions of high level spells... for more diversity in low level gameplay.


How low level are you talking. I found amazing diversity with all my characters, Battle Mage, Enchanter points in almost all schools. Jahan points in almost all schools. Madora, added enough Dex to take advantage of all the Special Arrows in game. I have options out the yang. I'd go as far to say in a game like this, I don't think I've had so many options in the first 8 levels before.

What I really love is the Warriors can have a lot of options now. In DnD they are just boring to play (for me) in a turn based game. First Larian gave us a fair amount of Warrior skills, but it's easy to add another class to them to give them a whole second dimension. Love it!

Joined: May 2014
L
member
Offline
member
L
Joined: May 2014
Originally Posted by Horrorscope
Originally Posted by ynotndalton
I agree with having more lower level spells... weaker versions of high level spells... for more diversity in low level gameplay.


How low level are you talking. I found amazing diversity with all my characters, Battle Mage, Enchanter points in almost all schools. Jahan points in almost all schools.


That doesn't help the specialists.

Anybody can dump points into all the schools and say it's diverse, but the schools themselves aren't.

Joined: May 2014
Y
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Y
Joined: May 2014
Originally Posted by LordofBones
Originally Posted by Horrorscope
Originally Posted by ynotndalton
I agree with having more lower level spells... weaker versions of high level spells... for more diversity in low level gameplay.


How low level are you talking. I found amazing diversity with all my characters, Battle Mage, Enchanter points in almost all schools. Jahan points in almost all schools.


That doesn't help the specialists.

Anybody can dump points into all the schools and say it's diverse, but the schools themselves aren't.



Exactly

Joined: Apr 2013
Location: US
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Apr 2013
Location: US
I guess I am not understanding the complaint...
seriously what game are you all playing O.O low level, Once I had the gold I bought the spells and was able to set up some amazing elemental attacks.

Round 1
Melee/Ranged into positions
Rain+Ice = enemies frozen or slipping (large area)

Round 2
Melee or Ranged attacks. (pretty much guaranteed hit)
Caster type can use more ice magic or air(lightning) which does quite a bit of damage to wet/frozen targets. If you really want to be cruel while they are frozen or slipping and not wanting to use air magic. Can use earth poison dart near them. The reason I say near them is it leaves a poison cloud they are stuck in.

Think if people sit back and play around with the spells (and not focus on picking the game apart) And I do mean the low level ones. You can figure out some amazing combos. The Rain+Ice spell on the water left behind is a huge AoE freeze.

If the demand is really high for a low level spell pack.Give me a few days or a week playing with the toolkit and I can do a low level spell pack before working on my difficulty mod.
(Should be easy if all people really want is lower versions of ones already in game)

Joined: May 2014
L
member
Offline
member
L
Joined: May 2014
One idea to prevent hybrids from being overpowered and specialists from being redundant would be to reintroduce skill requirements for learning spells.

Your warrior wants that sweet Meteor spell? Now he actually has to earn it, instead of spending one point in Fire and ignoring it for the rest of the game.

Joined: May 2014
L
member
Offline
member
L
Joined: May 2014
Originally Posted by Ellary
I guess I am not understanding the complaint...
seriously what game are you all playing O.O low level, Once I had the gold I bought the spells and was able to set up some amazing elemental attacks.

Round 1
Melee/Ranged into positions
Rain+Ice = enemies frozen or slipping (large area)

Round 2
Melee or Ranged attacks. (pretty much guaranteed hit)
Caster type can use more ice magic or air(lightning) which does quite a bit of damage to wet/frozen targets. If you really want to be cruel while they are frozen or slipping and not wanting to use air magic. Can use earth poison dart near them. The reason I say near them is it leaves a poison cloud they are stuck in.

Think if people sit back and play around with the spells (and not focus on picking the game apart) And I do mean the low level ones. You can figure out some amazing combos. The Rain+Ice spell on the water left behind is a huge AoE freeze.

If the demand is really high for a low level spell pack.Give me a few days or a week playing with the toolkit and I can do a low level spell pack before working on my difficulty mod.
(Should be easy if all people really want is lower versions of ones already in game)


90% of the enemies in Cyseal are undead. Your poison is healing them, so that's poison dart out of the equation.

Rain and Air magic being a spectacular combination is not an excuse for the lack of diversity in other spell schools. The only Earth damage (not Poison) spell at levels 1-10 is accessible at level...7, I believe, and Witchcraft forces you to be in melee range for most of its spells, plus Bloodletting is worthless against undead.

Fire is fine.

Joined: Jan 2011
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Jan 2011
Originally Posted by LordofBones
Originally Posted by Horrorscope
Originally Posted by ynotndalton
I agree with having more lower level spells... weaker versions of high level spells... for more diversity in low level gameplay.


How low level are you talking. I found amazing diversity with all my characters, Battle Mage, Enchanter points in almost all schools. Jahan points in almost all schools.


That doesn't help the specialists.

Anybody can dump points into all the schools and say it's diverse, but the schools themselves aren't.


Ok I get what your saying, however I still seem to have a lot of options with my party of 4. All the basic covered in several ways, AOE's, DOT's, CC's, Single Hitters.

I hear they are tweaking the system, I found a lot of good in it, just more of an overall balance thing.

Joined: May 2014
L
member
Offline
member
L
Joined: May 2014
That works if you spread out, but I have Roderick as a Fire/Earth/Witchcraft Wizard, while Jahan concentrates exclusively on Air and Water spells. That's when the flaws become more obvious.

Joined: May 2014
Y
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Y
Joined: May 2014
Originally Posted by LordofBones
That works if you spread out, but I have Roderick as a Fire/Earth/Witchcraft Wizard, while Jahan concentrates exclusively on Air and Water spells. That's when the flaws become more obvious.


Ya would be nice to have more varied spells for each school. I guess thats where the modding comes in lol

Joined: May 2014
T
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
T
Joined: May 2014
Fire is used for damage but I don't expect the 3 other elements to have the same attack power because each element usually has its own purpose. Heal and slow for water, speed and stun for air, armor and resistances for earth.
You cannot specialize in only one school in this game because a lot of ennemies have immunities, even at the low levels of this beta. What can you do as a fire mage against the twins ?

What we lack in the early game is spells to give some support to the fighter. There is so much poison and fire surfaces in this game that the fighter cannot get close to targets without being affected by heavy conditions. And when he succeeds he is hit when the target dies leaving a poison or fire surface. This is what makes the spider so useful in the early game because you can use it as a tank and later when you can summon elementals you can use them as tanks too.

Joined: May 2014
K
stranger
Offline
stranger
K
Joined: May 2014
I was surprised Crushing damage is not doing bonus dmg to frozen targets.

And that "Teleport" of frozen target does no bonus dmg or chance to shatter said target.

Joined: Dec 2012
Moderator Emeritus
Offline
Moderator Emeritus
Joined: Dec 2012
Right now (with the latest update) the skill system really favors the hybrids much more than specialists. However, it was just a test implementation and Larian already said that they will change the system with the next update so that specializing will be much more rewarding.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5