Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity Original Sin - Beta Abusing container loot mechanics with saved games.

Congratulations on just trolling away with a comment that doesn't actually have anything to do with what I just said. Did you even read before you posted or did you just have at it the moment you saw me respond to someone?

So predictable.

Why don't you do us all a favor and explain to everyone why you apparently think "reporting your findings and letting the developers decide whether they want to address it or not" is, apparently, a bad thing in Ellary's razor sharp mind.

This should be oh so interesting..

So.. I'm looking at my response to you, and then looking at your response to me, and wondering how in the heck mine warranted yours.

...snipped...

That is really the only part of my statement that I think could have been taken the wrong way. If that was the case.. maybe just ask me to clarify next time?

Oh Gyson your true colors show once again~ I am delighted you find my mind razor sharp ~

Let me try and explain this as simple as I can to you.
..wish I could add in pictures might be easier for you (<- that buttercup was trolling)

Anyway a reason to report something as "bad" or "broken" or as you claim "Poorly handled" would be something that effects the game in a negative way. A truly game breaking error or exploit.
Example would be "Oh gosh if you hold alt while leveling up you have infinite points to spend."

Things like that ^ .. your complaint being it awhile ago or whatever was small minded thinking. Run with that as you will about trolling blah blah~ You wanting to control how others play their game does annoy me. Larian has enough to do then review things that are not even broken..

Honestly if people reloading for better loot bothers you so much..*thumbs up* You brought it to more players attention to do this now...but then again not like it will effect your game o.o other then driving you crazy knowing people are doing the evil deed!

what are you going to do seriously when people start altering the loot tables in the creation tools? Or wait do you want Larian to back out of what they promised and not give the tools...cause it doesn't fit with your view of how the players should play?

Typing is fun~ I know none of this is sinking in~ and when your brain attempts to understand it instantly sees "troll troll troll troll... troll!" Anywho have fun with it~ my Razor sharp mind and I are going to trololol through trollsville and enjoy gaming and happily let others enjoy games how they please.

You've also progressed to full troll mode now and are clearly just out to derail this discussion.

You're correct. The heavy sarcasm was pointless and probably unwarranted. I've had a shitty week, and I lost it momentarily and unloaded. My apologies.

We differ fundamentally on the nature of single player games and the relationship between players and developers in the use of such games.

I have mostly given up on arguing with the opinions you are presenting on these issues - for one reason or another it almost never goes anywhere productive. I should not even be reading this thread, let alone contributing.

Thank you for the restraint in this case.

It's really not my business, but you might consider using it more widely; I don't think the exchanges of vitriol reflect well on anyone involved.

And I'm obviously in a glass house regarding lack of restraint, so ... stopping now. Again.

Ten years ago, Divine Divinity had the same RNG loot mechanics with possible reloadings as D:OS now has... So, I guess Larian wouldn't have gone the same route ten years later if this mechanics had caused them any great problems (with player feedback, reviews, techical problems or something like this)

One would think right? I mean, if the OP had a sound argument, you would think in all this time there would be even a shred of evidence to support their position that this system would lead to major game design imbalances. /shrug

No worries. There are four individuals (not you) on this forum who I have long lost all respect for because of their rude behavior and/or lack of maturity, and I'm never surprised when they show up in the center of some trolling and mudslinging. For them I have generally adapted a "treat as treated" policy.. which would account for the lack of restraint on some posts and not others.

Thanks for the explanation.

^ oh good laugh, whew thanks!

Anyway as other have stated this is not an undesired element nor a broken element. Just you complaining cause you cannot control others game. The amount of rage I am excited to see from you when mods start getting released!

oh and thank you Larian!! for focusing on the actual broken parts of the game! super excited for release!!!

Is this a case of simpler minds being easily amused?

I'm not sure where you got it in your head that I am at all concerned with what people can achieve with mods when I have been referring specifically to questionable gameplay the official unmodded campaign allows. It's obvious this is a preaching point you just keep throwing out because you're under some goofy impression that it makes a point. The only point you're making is that you've missed the point (again). But thanks for bumping my concerns to the front page again.


I thank Larian for providing players with the opportunity to offer feedback. It's a shame you instead use it as platform in which to behave like an immature child by often bringing nothing but "trololol" noises to these discussions.

Every time you find a topic you disagree with, rather than just posting your opinion and leaving it at that you make every effort to derail the entire thread to the point where the discussion is ruined. That is your way of censoring opinions on the forum. While I can't speak for them, I suspect the people who are actually interested in having a discussion don't appreciate that.

And yet you persist time and time again regardless. Every post of yours in this thread (all 7 of them, and I have no doubt #8 will be the same) essentially states the same thing: one line insisting there is no issue and thanking Larian for the great game (just so you can pretend you're "staying on topic") with the remainder/majority of your post being dedicated to heckling.

It is very petty, very disrespectful, and very inconsiderate of you to player and developer alike, especially when the developers have repeatedly said they want our feedback. It is not for you to decide which feedback they hear.

It doesn't have to be a "major game design imbalance" to warrant a change, just an undesirable element for a developer. The developers at Firaxis Games, for example, did not attempt to limit the effectiveness of save-scumming in XCOM EU because it was a "major game design imbalance", they did it because the behavior was counter to the vision they had for their game.

Of course, what is undesirable behavior or what creates an imbalance worth addressing will differ from one developer to the next. All one can do is bring it to the attention of the developers (and then spend umpteen pages dealing with criticism and personal attacks from people who fail to understand that very simple concept).

Something to consider: I just pointed out in a recent bug thread that candles sell for quite a bit of gold, and asked if that was working as intended (as a lot of candles are available for looting in the tutorial).

Should I have brought that to the developers attention in the first place? Going by the flawed logic many have argued here, the answer would appear to be "no", since it is up to each individual to gather those candles from the environment or not, and one person making ~1000 gold in the tutorial does not in any way impact anyone else since this is a single player game.

Someone else might argue that those candles make a visit to the tutorial feel required rather than optional, or cite concern that all that extra gold impacts the difficulty of early gameplay. None of that is all that dissimilar to the option of save-scumming in front of key containers to trivialize the RNG design and obtain better rewards, in the sense that they are both optional, their impact on the game is debatable, this is not an MMO where your method of play has an impact on mind, any fix can be worked around with the editor, blah blah blah excuse excuse excuse.

In the end it doesn't matter. If it looks like it might not belong in the game - raise the issue during the beta and let the developers sort it out. They're the most qualified to determine what belongs in their game or not. Opinions and debates on the impact on gameplay are fine, but arguments from the peanut gallery criticizing that the issue was raised in the first place are just stupid and unhelpful.

Because most developers consider someone reloading saves to be conscience decision to avoid the outcome that was given. That is, a sane developer would see save scumming as nothing different than hex editing.

All a sane developer can do is develop the game to be played as they intended within the scope of internal play. Worrying about what happens outside of that is not a rational argument, especially when it concerns games.

Which is an INTERNAL game issue. That is, a person can play the game within its intended goals (ie collecting things to sell) and the balance can be upset by the fact that candles are selling for too much. That means, an unsuspecting person can imbalance their game simply by playing it as intended.

Save scumming is not an intentional approach. Only a flipping idiot would think that saving and reloading in excess is a "normal and intended part of game play". So... those who do it KNOW they are cooking the books, giving themselves an advantage, etc...

If you are going to demand they be barred from such, then why not those who die attempting battles? Seriously, if you are going to complain about people reloading over and over for better loot, what about those who do such in order to beat an encounter? Shouldn't we restrict them from such? You are so concerned about balance, shouldn't you be concerned about this? If not, then aren't you being "selective" in what you consider abuse through save/reloads?

It does matter. What matters though is that you can't seem to segregate INTERNAL game influences from EXTERNAL ones. I refuse to believe you are that ignorant and obtuse. I think your arrogance in the promotion of your own position is what causes you to ignore the issues in these discussions and it is why you consistently clash with many on this forum.

I am curious how you know what most developers consider? And are you implying that the developers at Firaxis Games are "insane" because they attempted to limit the effectiveness of save-scumming in XCOM EU?



See above.



I disagree. For the sake of this example, let's assume the candle prices are unintended. When you go to sell a stack of them and see the oddly large amount of gold you're being offered.. that whole "if it seems too good to be true" adage should be coming to mind. And, following that, if you continue to remove candles from the environment with the intention to sell them, you are taking what you call "an intentional approach". There are no unsuspecting victims here at that point.

It is not all that different from save scumming. You can be genuinely surprised that the loot in a chest has changed the first time you come across this phenomenon. The act of causing this may be completely unintended, and the result even undesired. Your philosophy about being a victim can apply here as well. And, like with the candles, once you realize what the deal is, you can make a choice to abuse it.

But that doesn't mean the game should allow it. I don't care if people are hex-editing.. there's a lot more involved in that then reloading a saved game, and I don't expect the developers to try and thwart every method of cheating - but I do hope they go after the easier ones if they consider them a cheat to begin with. By your logic, the developers should ignore all cheats and exploits since anyone can fire up a hex editor and cheat away. What's the point in plugging any loophole, right? Sorry, but I strongly disagree with your thinking here.


If the developers want to implement a hardcore mode and give players the option of using it, more power to them. And some games do limit the amount of saving you can do surrounding battles because that is the developer's idea of good gameplay. Obviously the vision differs from one developer to the next.



Does it matter? Does it really matter if you believe any of that? I don't care what you believe about me, so why do you? I see you the same way as you see me in this respect and you can be certain I'm not losing any sleep over it. I don't create threads like this to attract approval from other players. I create threads like this because I want the game to be better and I genuinely believe the suggestion being offered may help with that.

Better to just agree to disagree and save yourself the stress, I think.

Ellary, you know how I know MOST developers think that? Because we have a history of games designed in such a way as to not antagonize over what Gyson has? It is a logical evaluation of the result of the work presented based on the technologies available to functionally combat the problem that Gyson has presented. That is, they haven't worried about it as many developers don't waste their time trying to combat external mechanisms and those that did were for different reasons (ie console games did it due to memory limitations).

But hey, if you want to make the argument that they care about such, but haven't implemented it into most of the games because of some mysterious reason, by all means...

hmm? I was not disagreeing with what you put. my comment was to Gyson.

@Tanist, the "insane" comment originates from Gyson's post - Ellary has just quoted it in her response.

Edit: Oh well, this has already been corrected^^.