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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jul 2014
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Sorry with One Handed i meant Warrior one handed ^^
Rogues are another thing and i know they can deal alot of Damage. The thread title reads "melee is terrible" which has already been disproven. Now if we are talking about men of arms skill variety that is an entirely different matter.
I already gave an example where 1 handed can outdamage 2 handed...
" I should clearly use my Shield to attack. OH WAIT it doesnt work.
The only use for Shields is absorbing Damage. Which i cant!"
Really? Try equipping it.
Thanks thought it should stay in my Inventory. Hmm tried and yeah my Mage gets still focused and my Summon even more but now i can deal less Damage which is great. More red herrings and hyperboles I see.
Last edited by Sykar; 03/07/14 01:36 PM.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2011
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Changes I would like to see:
-Being able to get into the heat of battle faster - either more
Is that what battering ram is for? Get in there, possibly damage and knockdown a few getting there in one turn?
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jul 2014
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Changes I would like to see:
-Being able to get into the heat of battle faster - either more
Is that what battering ram is for? Get in there, possibly damage and knockdown a few getting there in one turn? That and in Beta there was a Skill called Phoenix Dive? letting you jump into the enemies too. But since everyone agrees on Melee being quite good we could actually end the topic. Ill open a new one for the Man at Arms.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2014
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I think if some skills are added to shield specialist that augments a more defensive melee style would help differentiate it from the two hander melees
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jul 2014
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I think if some skills are added to shield specialist that augments a more defensive melee style would help differentiate it from the two hander melees That I can agree with. I'd love to see a Sword&Board skill tree dedicated to it.
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stranger
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OP
stranger
Joined: Jul 2014
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So what? I have 18 AP every Round and 1 Round Cooldown -> Just Summon a new one.
Also Damage is no Problem ( Thanks to Healing Spells ). The Problems are Special Arrows and CC Magic and the Summons tank them perfectly fine ^^ Yeah, no kidding. How the hell did summons end up on a 1 turn CD? How about we give the mage skills the man-at-arms treatment and give all summons a 15 turn shared CD, change the 2 heal skills in hydrosophist to have 6 turn CDs, double all the AP costs, and lastly, give all the spells a 30% to fail outright.
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stranger
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OP
stranger
Joined: Jul 2014
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Changes I would like to see:
-Being able to get into the heat of battle faster - either more
Is that what battering ram is for? Get in there, possibly damage and knockdown a few getting there in one turn? The problem with battering ram is it has an excrutiatingly long CD. You will charge in (and probably murder yourself doing so because you take damage from all hazards on the path), and any enemies that aren't knocked down will just walk away from you on their next turn. I agree it works well when it knocks down enemies, which it does reasonably consistently as you scale strength, which is why I think to balance the ability the knockdown chance shouldn't scale, it's fine at 50% if the CD was considerably lowered, and scale the damage instead.
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stranger
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OP
stranger
Joined: Jul 2014
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I think if some skills are added to shield specialist that augments a more defensive melee style would help differentiate it from the two hander melees That I can agree with. I'd love to see a Sword&Board skill tree dedicated to it. Excellent idea. There simply just needs to be more skills that are usable on strength based characters.
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stranger
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OP
stranger
Joined: Jul 2014
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Changes I would like to see:
-Being able to get into the heat of battle faster - either more
Is that what battering ram is for? Get in there, possibly damage and knockdown a few getting there in one turn? That and in Beta there was a Skill called Phoenix Dive? letting you jump into the enemies too. But since everyone agrees on Melee being quite good we could actually end the topic. Ill open a new one for the Man at Arms. I don't think that was the consensus. The consensus was that 2H damage focused man-at-arms characters are viable, but mages and rangers are still better, and that sword and board man-at-arms characters are universally awful, except for those 3 fights in the game with a character-wide choke point.
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stranger
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OP
stranger
Joined: Jul 2014
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And thats exactly the Problem.
You dont need someone who can stay on his own.
Enemies dont deal enough Damage and 2 Handed Warriors can Instakill most + a Two Handed Warrior can get the most important Defensive Skills too ( 50% Magic Resistance, 25% extra Life, 15 Extra Armor ).
The Shield is just the Cherry on the Cake.
Its nice but its not important whether i reduce 300 Damage to 50 or to 60.
But a dead Enemy does no Damage at all -> A Two Handed Warrior survives longer because there is nothing left to kill him.
I understand your point. It goes to the conclusion that the defensive warrior type is useless and has no meaning and brings nothing even on its own on the table (i don't play one so i am concluding this from your posts). Why would anyone want to play something that doesn't do anything meaningful apart from pure roleplay desires. Ok, if that is the case with 1h + shield it has some point. Maybe a not so good design decision on Larian side or maybe just that's what they wanted to do - add this build for pure roleplay reasons. But then how would Larian design the defensive warrior without turning this into the boring, mindless MMO spank+tank mentality? Just an idea, but tanks still function in other games with human players like League of Legends primarily by being disruptive. You want to attack tanks because they block your damage to other characters, you want to attack them because they could crowd-control you and your allies, you want to attack them because they can still deal significant damage to your squishy back-line if you let them through.
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stranger
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OP
stranger
Joined: Jul 2014
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Honestly, I've yet to see my friend really have any issues with movement. At most, if he needs an enemy brought to him, using Aero's teleport to bring the enemy closer so he can use all his AP on attacks works perfectly well. Combine that with Pyro's Haste and he can kill an enemy in one round with just the auto attacks, he does so much damage with those alone.
One of the better tactics I've found is actually to teleport him directly into the middle of a group. He takes a bit of damage, but so do all the enemies. Then he throws out a spinning attack and tends to finish at least one or two normal enemies off. It's astoundingly effective. It's all about positioning and using the varied class abilities effectively. No one class is going to be good at everything. It's a lot easier to focus on way with each class and then put that to use by combining their strengths. So your friend had to spend points in strength, const, speed, AND int to get some small level of viability. Mages only need int, and would definitely be able to do whatever your friend does more effectively. Yes, mages ARE good at everything. They heal, they tank, they kite, they murder, at low low discount prices. Like I said in my original points, the main problem is every single magic school, and there are _5_ of them, scale with int. You can use them all. They all have fantastic summons for tanking with 1 turn CDs, mobility skills, amazing shields that grant insane damage absorption, more than just having armor or resistances, low cooldown heals, 1 turn cooldown CC, etc.
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stranger
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OP
stranger
Joined: Jul 2014
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Since when can summons tank? They die in one round under focus fire. And? They have a 1 turn CD.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jul 2014
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Thats what i already posted many times and what i stated in my other Thread.
One Hand + Shield shouldnt tank everything but control everything by CC and such.
Also Two Handed Warrior is as strong if not even stronger than Mages and Rangers.
They dont have much CC or cool Burning Effects right.
But they can nearly Instakill everything.
One normal Attack deals as much Damage as 5 Spells do on a Single Target if not even more.
As i said Crits > 1k and way more is normal without Buffs on Level 15.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2011
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So your friend had to spend points in strength, const, speed, AND int to get some small level of viability. Mages only need int, and would definitely be able to do whatever your friend does more effectively. Nothing needs anything or only anything. Mages could only be given Int, but I wouldn't say that is idea, there are reasons for Cons/Speed and Perception to have more AP turn to turn. Fighters could only be given Str. This game imo playing the first chapter is fairly easy once you understand the mechanics, imo we are arguing what class makes the game the easiest. No doubt mages have a ton of skills/options on hand.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jul 2014
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Game the easiest by abusing Mechanics? Mage.
Int reduces Cooldown ( i assume Warrior Cooldowns too ).
-> Invisibility has 1 Round Cooldown.
with Lonewolf + Class Cannon + 7 Speed ( 5 + 2 Equipment ) -> 18 Ap per Round
- 6 Ap for Invisibility
I can cast 2 Spells and cast Invisibility.
Enemies cant do anything against it -> win.
But same can be achieved by Rogue:
Invisibility ( long CD ) -> go into Stealth somewhere where Enemies cant see you.
Wait for Invisibility to be Ready again -> go in -> Invisibility and repeat.
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stranger
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OP
stranger
Joined: Jul 2014
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Game the easiest by abusing Mechanics? Mage.
Int reduces Cooldown ( i assume Warrior Cooldowns too ).
-> Invisibility has 1 Round Cooldown.
with Lonewolf + Class Cannon + 7 Speed ( 5 + 2 Equipment ) -> 18 Ap per Round
- 6 Ap for Invisibility
I can cast 2 Spells and cast Invisibility.
Enemies cant do anything against it -> win.
But same can be achieved by Rogue:
Invisibility ( long CD ) -> go into Stealth somewhere where Enemies cant see you.
Wait for Invisibility to be Ready again -> go in -> Invisibility and repeat. Wow, I didn't even know you could get invisibility down to a 1 turn CD. Who the hell balanced this game? I'd advise him not to quit his day job.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2011
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Game the easiest by abusing Mechanics? Mage.
Int reduces Cooldown ( i assume Warrior Cooldowns too ).
-> Invisibility has 1 Round Cooldown.
with Lonewolf + Class Cannon + 7 Speed ( 5 + 2 Equipment ) -> 18 Ap per Round
- 6 Ap for Invisibility
I can cast 2 Spells and cast Invisibility.
Enemies cant do anything against it -> win.
But same can be achieved by Rogue:
Invisibility ( long CD ) -> go into Stealth somewhere where Enemies cant see you.
Wait for Invisibility to be Ready again -> go in -> Invisibility and repeat. Right. That is oen of the issues programming down to the last minute. There are balance issues. I'll go back to using the phrase you can build your character to how easy you want to make the game. (Unless Chap 2-4 gets a lot harder)
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2011
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with Lonewolf + Class Cannon + 7 Speed ( 5 + 2 Equipment ) -> 18 Ap per Round
Question: CAn you once again pick Lone Wolf and Glass Cannon on the same character? That was at one point taken away as being too strong. The two together was a problem, it gives you too much max and too much regen each round without as you say going outside of INT.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jul 2014
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Game the easiest by abusing Mechanics? Mage.
Int reduces Cooldown ( i assume Warrior Cooldowns too ).
-> Invisibility has 1 Round Cooldown.
with Lonewolf + Class Cannon + 7 Speed ( 5 + 2 Equipment ) -> 18 Ap per Round
- 6 Ap for Invisibility
I can cast 2 Spells and cast Invisibility.
Enemies cant do anything against it -> win.
But same can be achieved by Rogue:
Invisibility ( long CD ) -> go into Stealth somewhere where Enemies cant see you.
Wait for Invisibility to be Ready again -> go in -> Invisibility and repeat. Right. That is one of the issues programming down to the last minute. There are balance issues. I'll go back to using the phrase you can build your character to how easy you want to make the game. (Unless Chap 2-4 gets a lot harder) Which does not matter much since the game is non-competitive. I have no problem with Larian adjusting skills but this is just one big hyperbole. Look at BG2, mages were by far the most powerful class there too in the game, yet the game was soloed by a Beastmaster, the weakest class in an unmodded BG 2 game. Clerics and Rogues were still plenty poweful and in their own right more powerful than mages. Only backstab was capable of getting 1k crits in that game just to mention one example.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jan 2014
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A basic question: at high levels, what percentage of your stat points have to be put into strength in order to use skills and equipment effectively? I've been wondering this as well. It would be nice to spend an attribute point on something other than Strength once in a while.
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