Larian Studios Forums Divine Divinity (English) General Divine Divinity 'vs' Never Winters Night :-)

who you talking to?

Maybe Irony. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" />

I don't like NWN, and therefore I have always had discussions with a friend of mine, who is also a big RPG gamer (like me).

He likes NWN, and I don't that's why we have lots of discussions. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" />

So, why don't I like NWN ?

There are basically two reasons for it :

A) It was halfway translated into german.

Don't be fooled by what I just wrote: I meant it ! NWN was halfway translated into german, which means half of the text / program is german, half is still english. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" />

I think, a company, which isn't able to properly a game into ANY language doesn't deserve my money. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" />

B) The Single-Player Campaign (someone at RPGDot.con even called it a "Demo" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" /> is simply too boring as far as I have heard ( and I usually collect lots of infor,ation before buying a game ! ) : It seems to me like a simple demonstration of what the Multiplayer Part could be like. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" /> And what the game could be like with well written modules. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" />

In fact, NWN didn't receive much points by some gaming mas just because of that: They tested NWN only with what shipped with it, and decidec that it wasn't as good as it could've been.

What's more: I don't like the idea behind this: The devs emphasized the Multiplayer part, leaving the Soloplayer part behind. I won't búy a MUltiplayer-oriented game (that's what NWN is for me) when I'm not able to play it (I cannot play within a LAN or by Internet: I don't have friends for that and playing by Internet would still be too expensive for me... )

In short: I don't like NWN because it's so MP oriented, and because it was so badly translated.

Me?

And you gleaned that from what, pray tell? Analyzing a game that I find distasteful makes me fixtated with video games, or spend all my spare time playing them? Wow, you have wonderful logic going on there! Who taught you to think like that? Because I want to know what kind of drugs your teacher was using. I want some, too.

Oh, and FYI, I spend most of my spare time reading and writing - I don't pick up new games that often anymore, considering the stale "RPGs" they put out lately. And lastly -- there're things called capital letters, proper sentence structure and punctuation. They don't bite, trust me.



That amazes me, and makes me even more disgusted with Bioware. I mean, ugh, many fan-made (!) mods for BG2 actually have translations in other languages, like German or Spanish. I stresss. Fan-made.

Good gods!

I'm pretty sure I remember reading an interview regarding NWN long ago that mentioned that it was being designed more for a toolset for computerized GM & Players type playstyle [read as multiplayer with human GMs rather then scripted npcs] rather then a game for a single player which had me turned off to the product. Later when it came to production the Official Campaign was tossed in more as a second thouht then as the main part of the product.

Course I could be wrong, might be a touch of early senility lol

ok ok more then just a touch <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I had this in mind, too. I thought I remembered something similar, but I'm not sure anymore (too long ago).

Someone I know and who has been part of that community since its very beginning even told me (after buying the original english version) that he didn't like it.
It seemed to me as if NWN was too "weak" for him - I mean depth of story.

That's a great goal, and NWN is just fine as a concept. But no matter many mods there are and with or without a live DM, the hills still have funky ramps and the corridors all meet at nice right angles, and the environments are still largely noninteractive and uninteresting.

The map editor is tile-based because the engine is tile-based. It's all a 2D grid. They could have supported .X or .3ds files directly, or at least have included an importer in the toolset. Textures could have been standard dx or even bmp. We'd have seen cool modules set in the Underdark swarming with Beholders in about 2 days.

As it is, it's a great toolset for developing really generic, boring modules and playing with a live DM who can come up with really creative ways to make an NPC tell you to go kill a boring generic monster in either the gray cavern tileset or the crypt tileset which is right up that hill-ramp and through the hole in the treeline that make a perfect rectangle around the generic village with the generic tavern you "woke up" in.

Which is a start; it's more than we had three years ago. I'll buy the sequel.

DD, come to think of it, is the same. But NWN feels very sterile. There's no charm to it. It reeks of "game engine", if that makes sense.

just a thought.

Could it be that the reason it was designed to make setting up mods etc easy was for those of us who dont have a) the skill or b) the imagination or c) the knowledge to do wonderous things with mods?

Not sure if this was a thought but it would be a good learning tool for those who have never done anything like this before. I still havent made one but will look at it eventually.

I could be wrong (and have been before)

Anyway i do like the game and i guess thats what is important to each of us <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Axis

I have the feeling as if you're right.

I might be wrong, though. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Sure, they've stated that that was one of their goals. Which makes it even more important to have more variety in tilesets and such, I would think.

But hey, I didn't despise the game. I'm grateful for any RPG, especially one that makes important advances like NWN did. And I'm glad it was successful so they're encouraged to make more. I'm also convinced that a sequel will be much better now that they've proven the concept and got the fundamental plumbing in place.

I pick on the game, but I'm glad I bought it. I still play it every once in a while, too.

yes

Cool.

I will be interested to see what the next RPG they bring out is like and by then hopefully all those keen MOD makers will have their skills sharpened and be able to blow our mind with exciting things....this will only continue to increase the designers knowledge and idea base by seeing what all those other RPG fans can do with what they offer.....things are only going to get better and better!!!!!!!


Axis <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The NWN single player sucked mucho asso but the MP was pretty good, the whole 'make ure own weapons' thing was great <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I do and i dont like NWN... here are my veiws
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I dont like NWN for 5 things
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1. I don't like 3rd edition rules cuz they allow a wizard to be able to equipe platemail armour along with some other completly unrealistic feats. Perhaps though this is because I've been playing 2nd edition since 1992.... I'm just not used to third editon cuz I don't like the fact my wizard should be able to equipe any armour except robes, and cloaks...

2. The experiance levels are all the same for every class. In core 3rd edition rules even this is not possible because every class has a differnt experiance cap to reach the next level. Like a paladin has 2200 experiance to reach level 2 and the wizard needs 2500 to reach level 2... but in NWN it is all 1000 experiance for every class.... so every player online will have all the same levels and experiance points meaning the class's are really are all the same just differnt abilitys and feats....


3. The game can get boring after a short period of time because the difficulty of the game was not enough (that is why i basicly stopped playing it anyways) I bought this game cuz i played the baldurs gate series.... great game, but i think the reason why NWN was so much differnt was not only because of the new engine and the new rules but also that bioware did not have blackisle take part in the developement of the game. Im shure if they took part in it they would have had a better story and more immersiveness (don't get me wrong though bioware did a great job on the official campaign modules.. the only problem is that they didnt focus enough on replayability and many other factors that the other rpg's have) (also graphix is nice but it dosnt make a game great.... i feel they focused to much on how the game "looked")


4. A major gripe with all of biowares game is that you can only be a villin if you are the evil pool in your alignment.... you can never be truely evil like the charecters you meet in the game.... in the baldurs gate series i chose lawful evil because Bhaal the assasin was a lawful evil lvl40 assasin... most of the bhaal childern are evil simply because they have the blood of a murderer within them. However i never could really be like bhaal because i could not be a true evil figure in these games.... the same thing goed for NWN.... it is because they put you always with the goodie charecters doing goodie main goals.... in nwn they should have made 2 main goals one for good charecters and the other for an evil charecter.



5. Not enough freedom... felt like i was in a quake 3 game playing in an arena with invisable walls.



5 things why i do like nwn
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1. Multiplayer is gotta be one of the major things for me.... i liked it for this option. and also the module builder that came with the toolset.


2. Good graphics, and ripples in the water for 128 meg cards (Like i said though it dosnt make a game) also i liked the artwork and the story.


3. music has always been good in there games i liked that.


4. Constant updates are always good for any game.


5. the amount of what you could do with NWN and the toolset.







conclusion: yes a good game but for me it wore out and i never touched the game again... and probably wont for sometime. I like a game that has good replayability..... there is many factors why i dont play the game anymore.... most of it though is just bordem, and also NWN was just too easy for me.... i didnt even have to lift a finger to defeate most of all the enemies.... This is just me though



cheers <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

-vixen

There are so very few CPRG's that allow for the playing of truely evil characters, though. Even in DD you end up doing the good thing, even if you killed everyone you met. You end up saving the world, instead of having like the option to become the new evil. All those games have limited story lines from necessity ( I mean, there is only so much programming a game can have) and usually they involve saving the world from some impending doom. Well, some of us want to be that doom, not stop it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

I started a rant on another games forum over a year ago about this, seeing what people thought of the subject. Maybe it is time to do it again. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Black and White is the only game I've seen that does it right. Pity I don't like it.

I agree with you luna on many points and you are right they really never have put a true evil rollplaying option in many rpgs... the only rpgs that i have played were i could be a true evil was in Everquest and anarachy online.


however these are way way way differnt from the rpgs were are talking about here <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />

i also agree there is only a certain amount of course to add to the games nowadays especially the dates the dev's have to put out the games. I like divine divinity and i was amazed how large and vast the game is... not many games now adays are really all that large simply because most companys don't have the time to put all those features in.... the only rpg's that i can think of that allow almost everything are online rpgs... but of course they are charged a fee every month..... simply reason why i dont play them anymore... cuz I'ma bum <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/stupid.gif" alt="" />

well, considering the point of most games is to save something, either the world, or the princess it's hard to make a game so that you can take the evil road, when the whole point of the game is to do a good deed.

you need an open ended game like morrowind (from my experience it's open ended).

you can actually turn NWN into that kind of game simply by creating a mod where instead of saving the princess from the evil guy who is forcing her to marry him, thus making him king the objective is to kidnap the princess and force her to marry you, all while doing various other things such as fight off the obnoxious knights trying to save her so *they* can have her hand in marriage.

and to be honest, i'm quite surprised that you, of all people, failed to mention the great games that are dungeon keeper and dungeon keeper II. after all, you are the one who got me to get those games <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



i remember that rant too. didn't turn out so well, i remember correctly.

I like NWN. Of course DD single player is much better than NWN.

What I never understood, was, how can someone want to play "evil style" ? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

But I accept that everyone should be allowed to do like he/she wishes (at least in RPG games).

was a lawful evil mage in baldurs gate 1, 2 and tob

i like to play the underdog cuz most people choose goodie charecters <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />


however since last year i have been rollplaying fighter/cleric's... i got bored of playing the evil alignments.. I have been rollplaying them since i was 12 on the pen and paper (1992)... and now I'm 23 i am more interested in playing the chaotic goods now that try to help out the poor and the weak... i don't know perhaps it is because i want to rollplay a charecter that suites a person with the same values as me and make that charecter come to life. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />