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Pixel-hunting puzzles? Check.
Obtuse puzzles? Check.
Puzzles that you can't complete because you didn't happen to grab item X from zone Y but you have no way of knowing that you can't beat it? Check.
Convoluted story progression? Check.

A few puzzles and trapped areas (when well designed) can really add to an RPG and create a little respite from the combat, but D:OS has them by the truckload, slowing the game down to a crawl and forcing lots of backtracking. This is a shame as I think D:OS's combat is really great fun.

The puzzles thus far have been terrible as well, particularly in Luculla Forest. If someone had told me a few months back that there would be pixel-hunting in D:OS I would have laughed in his face. The plethora of puzzles wouldn't be so bad if they were actually satisfying to solve, but they're not clever puzzles.

This has completely detracted from my game experience and to be perfectly honest I don't think I can even bring myself to finish it. D:OS feels like a good RPG ball-and-chained by a terrible point-n-click adventure.

Sorry for the bluntness but I'm a little upset over this as I had really high hopes for the game.

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I actually like the puzzles smile

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Originally Posted by DragonCommander
I actually like the puzzles smile


Me too

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Originally Posted by artemis42
Pixel-hunting puzzles? Check.
Obtuse puzzles? Check.
Puzzles that you can't complete because you didn't happen to grab item X from zone Y but you have no way of knowing that you can't beat it? Check.
Convoluted story progression? Check.

Many people enjoy this kind of thing, in fact most of what you just listed were actual staples of PC RPG play in the golden era of RPGs.

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Some puzzles were head scratching and borderline annoying, but I can't say I hated them. It was kinda enjoyable to finally find that elusive hidden switch and hidden room behind it.
And it's nothing new to the Divinity series - secret switches and hidden treasures hunt is part of the charm.

Last edited by Aramintai; 07/07/14 10:14 AM.
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About time we had a challenging RPG in the vein of Baldurs Gate amd Neverwinter Night. I'm glad gaming hasn't moved so far forward they these are forgot about. The fact that this game is co-op as well makes the 'issues' you described even more fun to take on.

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Noes, you have to use your brain instead of mindlessly following shiny arrows and ignoring every bit of information so you can feel even more badass. The horror!

In other words, smart people enjoy the challenge, the retarded masses hate it of course. What else is new?

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Ignoring the actual quality of the puzzles, why are there so many of them? Why so many trapped areas? It disrupts the flow of the game.

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I like DOS puzzles too.
There are few annoying ones, but everything is googlable nowadays smile

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Originally Posted by Sykar
Noes, you have to use your brain instead of mindlessly following shiny arrows and ignoring every bit of information so you can feel even more badass. The horror!

In other words, smart people enjoy the challenge, the retarded masses hate it of course. What else is new?


Smart people enjoy smartly designed puzzles. D:OS's puzzles are not smart by any stretch of the imagination. A smart puzzle is one where the solution finally clicks and you think "oooh, that was clever!". Name me one puzzle in this game that you thought was clever.

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Originally Posted by artemis42
Pixel-hunting puzzles? Check.
Obtuse puzzles? Check.
Puzzles that you can't complete because you didn't happen to grab item X from zone Y but you have no way of knowing that you can't beat it? Check.
Convoluted story progression? Check.

A few puzzles and trapped areas (when well designed) can really add to an RPG and create a little respite from the combat, but D:OS has them by the truckload, slowing the game down to a crawl and forcing lots of backtracking. This is a shame as I think D:OS's combat is really great fun.

The puzzles thus far have been terrible as well, particularly in Luculla Forest. If someone had told me a few months back that there would be pixel-hunting in D:OS I would have laughed in his face. The plethora of puzzles wouldn't be so bad if they were actually satisfying to solve, but they're not clever puzzles.

This has completely detracted from my game experience and to be perfectly honest I don't think I can even bring myself to finish it. D:OS feels like a good RPG ball-and-chained by a terrible point-n-click adventure.

Sorry for the bluntness but I'm a little upset over this as I had really high hopes for the game.


You've been spoiled by all the hand-holding RPG's that have come out in the last 5-10 years that tell you exactly where your waypoints are, exactly where to pick up the items you need, and what your ultimate destinations are supposed to be. The games that completely take the fun out of exploring; linear storybook games that, if you are lucky, give you a small illusion of being open-exploration games (Dragon Age 2 was massively guilty of this, not to mention worse things).

D:OS was made in the spirit of the old mastercraft PC RGP's of the 1990's. Specifically, games like Baldur's Gate. They are for gamers that like RPG's precisely because RPGs dont "hold your hand" in an unrealistic way, as if some omnipotent god is floating over your shoulder telling you how to solve everything and where to find everything every step of the way. It's about exploring and discovering things on your own.

As for me, annoyingly ambiguous puzzles satisfy me all the more when I finally solve them. Or secrets that don't tell me exactly what I need to access them - if I discover how to access them either through my own critical thinking or on accident, it's immensely satisfying. Games that allow me to completely shut my brain off are not satisfying at all. And if something is really troubling you to the point where you fear you might stop enjoying the game, you can always look online for solutions to problems or difficult fights.

EDIT: It should be noted that in the last 2 paragraphs I'm speaking on good RPG's in general here, not really D:OS specifically. I'm trying not to be biased since enjoyment of such things is highly subjective. So for my only big complaint in this game is the extremely average, unimpressive inventory management. It really grinds my gears that I can't type in an exact number when I want to split a stack, for example, and instead I have to incessantly fiddle with a slider until it lands on the right number.

Last edited by ManureTruck; 07/07/14 10:30 AM.
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Originally Posted by SgtSilock
About time we had a challenging RPG in the vein of Baldurs Gate amd Neverwinter Night. I'm glad gaming hasn't moved so far forward they these are forgot about. The fact that this game is co-op as well makes the 'issues' you described even more fun to take on.


BG2 is my favorite game of all time. The devs understood pacing, and thus anything which breaks the flow of the game is either confined to its own space (ie. bodhi's gauntlet), or simply used sparsely as a break from all the combat.

In D:Os my adventuring is being constantly interrupted by stupid trapped areas and silly puzzles. I can only toss so many barrels before my patience runs out.

Originally Posted by ManureTruck
You've been spoiled by all the hand-holding RPG's that have come out in the last 5-10 years that tell you exactly where your waypoints are, exactly where to pick up the items you need, and what your ultimate destinations are supposed to be. The games that completely take the fun out of exploring; linear storybook games that, if you are lucky, give you a small illusion of being open-exploration games (Dragon Age 2 was massively guilty of this, not to mention worse things).

D:OS was made in the spirit of the old mastercraft PC RGP's of the 1990's. Specifically, games like Baldur's Gate. They are for gamers that like RPG's precisely because RPGs dont "hold your hand" in an unrealistic way, as if some omnipotent god is floating over your shoulder telling you how to solve everything and where to find everything every step of the way. It's about exploring and discovering things on your own.

As for me, annoyingly ambiguous puzzles satisfy me all the more when I finally solve them. Or secrets that don't tell me exactly what I need to access them - if I discover how to access them either through my own critical thinking or on accident, it's immensely satisfying. Games that allow me to completely shut my brain off are not satisfying at all. And if something is really troubling you to the point where you fear you might stop enjoying the game, you can always look online for solutions to problems or difficult fights.

EDIT: It should be noted that in the last 2 paragraphs I'm speaking on good RPG's in general here, not really D:OS specifically. I'm trying not to be biased since enjoyment of such things is highly subjective. So for my only big complaint in this game is the extremely average, unimpressive inventory management.


See above.

Last edited by artemis42; 07/07/14 10:33 AM.
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BG2 was a hand-holding RPG, in my opinion. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that BG1 is the PC RPG that kicked off the whole hand-holding era. Obviously, it got far worse later.

Divinity: Original Sin is more in the mold of early-to-mid '90s games, like Ultima VII, not late '90s games like BG. (Ultima VII has in fact been cited many times by Larian as the inspiration for the game)

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Originally Posted by artemis42
Originally Posted by Sykar
Noes, you have to use your brain instead of mindlessly following shiny arrows and ignoring every bit of information so you can feel even more badass. The horror!

In other words, smart people enjoy the challenge, the retarded masses hate it of course. What else is new?


Smart people enjoy smartly designed puzzles. D:OS's puzzles are not smart by any stretch of the imagination. A smart puzzle is one where the solution finally clicks and you think "oooh, that was clever!". Name me one puzzle in this game that you thought was clever.


Jake's murder.
Shutting down Sparkmaster 5000 without a fight.
The elemental riddle north of Cysael.

To just name a few.

Originally Posted by artemis42

BG2 is my favorite game of all time. The devs understood pacing, and thus anything which breaks the flow of the game is either confined to its own space (ie. bodhi's gauntlet), or simply used sparsely as a break from all the combat.

In D:Os my adventuring is being constantly interrupted by stupid trapped areas and silly puzzles. I can only toss so many barrels before my patience runs out.


BG 2 didn't have many puzzles or deadly trapped once you got decent equipment/level.
In fact it became very easy after you hit level 13/14 with your sorcerer/wizard which was achievable in mid of act 2.

Last edited by Sykar; 07/07/14 10:38 AM.
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... Try TSW to know the real meaning of hardcore puzzles xD
I love adventure games, the old-school ones (The longest journey; Broken Sword; The Neverhood, Monkey Island) those were my favorites, and ofc, TSW, I freaking love that MMO, it's just the best one I've played. I feel right at home with D:OS quests =) God, I love investigating!


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Originally Posted by Sykar

Jake's murder.
Shutting down Sparkmaster 5000 without a fight.
The elemental riddle north of Cysael.


I'll admit that I just charged in and wrecked the Sparkmaster, but as for the other two, how are they smart puzzles? Jake's murder is a series of steps which involve basically speaking to everyone you meet and exploring everything. As for the elemental riddle, do you mean the statues? That's one of the most obvious "puzzles" in the game.

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I haven't completed the game yet, but can't you basically murder your way through most of the game?
Not like an adventure where you can't progress at all without completing obtuse riddles.

I agree some of DOS's puzzles are little obtuse but most of it locks off optional side quest content in my experiences so far.

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Originally Posted by artemis42
Originally Posted by Sykar

Jake's murder.
Shutting down Sparkmaster 5000 without a fight.
The elemental riddle north of Cysael.


I'll admit that I just charged in and wrecked the Sparkmaster, but as for the other two, how are they smart puzzles? Jake's murder is a series of steps which involve basically speaking to everyone you meet and exploring everything. As for the elemental riddle, do you mean the statues? That's one of the most obvious "puzzles" in the game.


You have to figure out
that you have to break in into Esmeralda's cellar and get into the secret room.
Basically figuring out where the important clues could be hidden. I searched throughout quite a few other houses like the Mayors, the Inn, etc. for this quest.
And yes, the quest line was clever, or did you think it would turn out that
both the healer and the apprentice were working for the Conduit basically?

Last edited by Sykar; 07/07/14 11:21 AM.
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Originally Posted by Sykar
<snip>


Might want to spoiler-tag that.

Yea, and what is in Esmeralda's cellar? Pixel-hunting. The only reason I didn't get stumped was because I was picking up every bit of food anyway. None of the steps in that whole chain requires cleverness, only mindless searching.

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Originally Posted by artemis42
Yea, and what is in Esmeralda's cellar? Pixel-hunting. The only reason I didn't get stumped was because I was picking up every bit of food anyway. None of the steps in that whole chain requires cleverness, only mindless searching.


So, if I understand you correctly, secret areas should be highlighted with neon signs and bright flashing lights because otherwise they are too hard to find?

The very definition of a secret area is that it should be hard to find, otherwise you can't really call it secret smile


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