I don't mind random loot that much, sure empty book shelves are strange at least and I also get irritated somewhat by not finding a single piece of light armor with +dexterity on it for a period of 7 levels. But I don't really want it to be changed because what the game actually needs is enchanting. The way it was done in Divinity 2 comes to mind, maybe drop the charm part, but enhancing was decent.
What I mean is that equipment is a big part of a character build and being able to create fine tuned items you need is very important, especially in an enviroment with random loot.
Must be, because Diablo 3 is a whole lot more fun now with its smarter loot system than it used to be. The press seems to agree, and loads of people have returned and/or are still playing, so I'm not sure how the transition can be labeled as "ruining the game". Ruined for someone with overly particular tastes, maybe. Maybe you should have played the game both ways before speculating about the smart loot system?
Yep, those who don't agree with you and him must be idiots because you subjectively established the game to be "more fun"! We know this to be sure because the "press" seems to think so, but lets not look closely at the record of the press and how they score games as well as how their scoring compares to the public (lets see Metacritic Diablo 3... Press 88 Users 3.9), but hey... the press knows what good games are, why... just look at their Dragon Age 2 score!
I didn't "speculate" on the loot system, I read many arguments from people who did play the game. Diablo 3 is what I consider to be the example of the deterioration of cRPG gaming as it has defined the standard for what today's generation thinks what an RPG should be. I as well as many of those who were waiting for Larian to make this game... are at odds with those action junkie click fests.
You're misunderstanding. When the new loot changes were implemented in Diablo 3, the general vibe from the press reviews was that it was a very positive change that had corrected some fairly big disappointments in the game's original loot system. That they were bothering to review a *patch* at all like it was a new game (instead of just ignoring it completely as Diablo 3 is a year old now) is rather impressive.
Furthermore, I have actually played the game both before and after the smart-loot system was implemented and thoroughly enjoyed the changes. Where as you have not even touched the game and are merely going by the impressions you've picked up from the ether. So, which of our two opinions do you think I'm going to trust? The firsthand account (me), or the guy talking out his rear (you)?
Perhaps you should stick to arguing examples you have some personal experience with, as the remainder of the nonsense in your post (which I'm not even going to bother repeating here) shows that your ability to analyze other people's statements is seriously flawed and biased. Typical Tanist stuff.
"Smart loot" in D3 was only needed because the drop rate of anything worthwhile was so low to begin with. Instead of "smart loot", they could have just increased the base drop rate enough to where you get just as much worthwhile loot for your current character (in a post-RoS world where all trading is banned, this wouldn't have hurt a thing). Then you'd still be able to get items for characters (classes) other than the one you happen to be playing at the moment - a very common Diablo playstyle that "smart loot" completely broke. "Smart" loot was a dumb way to fix the problem, and by the way, I have put hundreds of hours into D3 both on original release, and after RoS release.
I remember in D3 when you were grinding for gear you'd get 8 million drops (an exaggeration, but a lot) but my friends only picked up yellow or better. Most stuff isn't even worth merchant fodder
You're misunderstanding. When the new loot changes were implemented in Diablo 3, the general vibe from the press reviews was that it was a very positive change that had corrected some fairly big disappointments in the game's original loot system. That they were bothering to review a *patch* at all like it was a new game (instead of just ignoring it completely as Diablo 3 is a year old now) is rather impressive.
I understand you, I just don't agree with you.
Originally Posted by Gyson
Furthermore, I have actually played the game both before and after the smart-loot system was implemented and thoroughly enjoyed the changes. Where as you have not even touched the game and are merely going by the impressions you've picked up from the ether. So, which of our two opinions do you think I'm going to trust? The firsthand account (me), or the guy talking out his rear (you)?
I don't need to play that game to understand its systems. You can learn all you need to know by reading about the system and watching long play as well as reading various comments about the game. No need to roll my face over the keyboard to see a shallow gimmick game that it is.
Originally Posted by Gyson
Perhaps you should stick to arguing examples you have some personal experience with, as the remainder of the nonsense in your post (which I'm not even going to bother repeating here) shows that your ability to analyze other people's statements is seriously flawed and biased. Typical Tanist stuff.
You were the one who claimed people were idiots.
Go ahead and spin it like you are the rational one. I am sure that if anyone disagrees with you, they just misunderstand you or are idiots right?
"Smart loot" in D3 was only needed because the drop rate of anything worthwhile was so low to begin with. Instead of "smart loot", they could have just increased the base drop rate enough to where you get just as much worthwhile loot for your current character (in a post-RoS world where all trading is banned, this wouldn't have hurt a thing). Then you'd still be able to get items for characters (classes) other than the one you happen to be playing at the moment - a very common Diablo playstyle that "smart loot" completely broke. "Smart" loot was a dumb way to fix the problem, and by the way, I have put hundreds of hours into D3 both on original release, and after RoS release.
Yeah, if your focus is on gearing up your alts without playing them, the Smart Loot system makes that very difficult (particularly if you're playing solo). But for people who want to focus on one character at a time it's a huge improvement to not be constantly receiving drops for other classes. There were few things more annoying than gathering up crafting ingredients (without the aid of the auction house), and blowing your resources on crafting gear that had a random assortment of useless stats for your build.
I don't know if increasing the amount of drops would have solved the problem, or if it would have just flooded my inventory with more useless items. They actually lowered the drop rate once Smart Loot was implemented.
"Smart loot" in D3 was only needed because the drop rate of anything worthwhile was so low to begin with. Instead of "smart loot", they could have just increased the base drop rate enough to where you get just as much worthwhile loot for your current character (in a post-RoS world where all trading is banned, this wouldn't have hurt a thing). Then you'd still be able to get items for characters (classes) other than the one you happen to be playing at the moment - a very common Diablo playstyle that "smart loot" completely broke. "Smart" loot was a dumb way to fix the problem, and by the way, I have put hundreds of hours into D3 both on original release, and after RoS release.
Exactly. Being able to get items that are not tailored to you was a part of the game. Tailored loot is a gimmick that turns a game into a shallow system.
Now I can respect if someone wants static hand placed loot, but such can be extremely time consuming and will likely result in some classes or focuses coming up short defeating the argument that random loot shorts people.
Those wanting random tailored loot are really asking for a useful prize in every box. I can understand, but it is that very thing that has seeded the bland hand-out, hand-holding, "everyone always wins!" mentality and expectation. We have plenty of those types of games. People should seek elsewhere if they want that design style.
Yeah, if your focus is on gearing up your alts without playing them, the Smart Loot system makes that very difficult (particularly if you're playing solo). But for people who want to focus on one character at a time...
.. should seek games that are designed to attend to that very desire rather than expecting games who have a history of a given style to fit their demands.
Well... that or they can mod it themselves if they so desire.
Yes, but some are creatures of habit and desire every game to be the same. Why do you think companies like EA are so successful in churning out the same product over and over again.
Exactly. Being able to get items that are not tailored to you was a part of the game. Tailored loot is a gimmick that turns a game into a shallow system.
Now I can respect if someone wants static hand placed loot, but such can be extremely time consuming and will likely result in some classes or focuses coming up short defeating the argument that random loot shorts people.
Those wanting random tailored loot are really asking for a useful prize in every box. I can understand, but it is that very thing that has seeded the bland hand-out, hand-holding, "everyone always wins!" mentality and expectation. We have plenty of those types of games. People should seek elsewhere if they want that design style.
It shows you haven't played the game because that's not how it actually works. Smart Loot doesn't mean you get an automatic upgrade with every drop (i.e. "useful prize in every box"). It just provides a higher percentage chance that the drop is for your class rather than some other class.
Little note of interest: this smart loot system is actually used in David Brevik's current game, Marvel Heroes. David, Brevik, of course, being the co-founder of Blizzard North and the developers of Diablo 1 and 2. He actually fancies Marvel Heroes as the spiritual successor to D1&2, despite your insistence of what is and isn't "part of the game" and nonsense about games with "a history of a given style". Kind of amusing, as alts are infinitely more important in Marvel Heroes than Diablo. And I've seen more than a few ideas popping up in D3 from other games.
Designs evolve, even with the people who birthed them. Keep that in mind every time you fall back on your "Larian's last few games did it this way, so accept it or move on" argument.
Not every game is for every player. If most people these days forgot what it means to enjoy the story more than the loot that drops, it's not the game's fault.
Unless otherwise specified, just an opinion or simple curiosity.
It shows you haven't played the game because that's not how it actually works. Smart Loot doesn't mean you get an automatic upgrade with every drop (i.e. "useful prize in every box"). It just provides a higher percentage chance that the drop is for your class rather than some other class.
Straw man.
I never said upgrades. I said each item is tailored to be useful to your class.
Please try to stay within the confines of my responses.
Originally Posted by Gyson
Designs evolve, even with the people who birthed them. Keep that in mind every time you fall back on your "Larian's last few games did it this way, so accept it or move on" argument.
Larian designed this game with the same system. If you want another system, go play a game that provides it? Maybe? You think?
Oh, look, heated debating about the loot system in a story-driven RPG.
Are the items you're getting preventing you from finishing the game? No? Then there is no problem.
There is if it's preventing players from having fun, particularly if that leads to them not wanting to finish the game.
Oh... neat, you played the "my fun" trump card. Brilliant counter really, I mean... it works for everything... when something doesn't go your way, call it bad design and claim it ruins "your fun" as if somehow you are the center of the universe and all games should be designed for "your fun".
Not every game is for every player. If most people these days forgot what it means to enjoy the story more than the loot that drops, it's not the game's fault.
I don't think that's a particularly fair stance to take. The game does have a strong story element to it but it also makes quite a big deal about character development, development which heavily relies upon item drops. It's understandable for that to be important to players as well. It's also understandable for someone to be upset when RNG prevents them from making use of the crafting skill they've invested points into, or from not being able to get the skills/spells they're after for their class, etc.
This is an RPG with tactical turn-based combat. It is not Myst or Zork. Item drops will matter as much as story.
Oh, look, heated debating about the loot system in a story-driven RPG.
Are the items you're getting preventing you from finishing the game? No? Then there is no problem.
There is if it's preventing players from having fun, particularly if that leads to them not wanting to finish the game.
Oh... neat, you played the "my fun" trump card. Brilliant counter really, I mean... it works for everything... when something doesn't go your way, call it bad design and claim it ruins "your fun" as if somehow you are the center of the universe and all games should be designed for "your fun".
Straw man.
I never said "my fun". I spoke of players in general (as there are many players complaining about the current loot system).
"Please try to stay within the confines of my responses."
No they don't, because part of the experience/challenge is to beat the game with the items you get, in a given play-through. And I'd be 100% confident that the game is 100% winnable, even on hard difficulty, regardless of how your item luck goes. The game is more replayable and interesting with highly random loot, and grinding/respawns don't belong anywhere near a game like this. Of course that is subjective, but so are your comments. Either way, this is the Larian style, and has been for over 10 years. Time to deal with it.
No they don't, because part of the experience/challenge is to beat the game with the items you get, in a given play-through. And I'd be 100% confident that the game is 100% winnable, even on hard difficulty, regardless of how your item luck goes. The game is more replayable and interesting with highly random loot, and grinding/respawns don't belong anywhere near a game like this. Of course that is subjective, but so are your comments. Either way, this is the Larian style, and has been for over 10 years. Time to deal with it.
I don't believe I ever suggested adding grinding or respawns, so I'm not sure why you're mentioning that to me.
The concept of being challenged to beat the game with the items you get would be better received if players weren't so locked into their development choices. And a single poorly implemented respec option partway through the game doesn't change that.
As for the the ol' "it's been this way forever, deal or move on" argument, I think Tanist's previous statement fits it best:
Originally Posted by Tanist
Oh... neat, you played the "XXXXXXXXX" trump card. Brilliant counter really, I mean... it works for everything..."
The problem with "Larian style" is tha I've been using the same damn dagger with Scarlett from the Baron of Bones all the way to Boreas. The mages are even worse off.
